Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[Jordan Adam]

1000 LX11 CVM has had its rear doors removed unike the rest of the batch, anyone know why?

They can't make up their mind again?

 

[tbtc]

I think it's simple and classy with a nod to the past

I like it too, it's a bit "GNER", upmarket, like you'd want on a premium express service to an airport.

Since the tram is obviously a simple way to/from the airport, the bus needs to differentiate itself somehow - that looks a good livery to me.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Since the tram is obviously a simple way to/from the airport, the bus needs to differentiate itself somehow - that looks a good livery to me.

Thing is though, most of the time i find the 100 more convenient and more comfortable. I'd rather sit facing forward in a double decker than sideways in a tram near a door that's opening constantly bringing in a draft. All the times i've been to the Airport/Ingliston i find the bus much faster too. So to me the bus is already much better without needing a fancy livery.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Thing is though, most of the time i find the 100 more convenient and more comfortable. I'd rather sit facing forward in a double decker than sideways in a tram near a door that's opening constantly bringing in a draft. All the times i've been to the Airport/Ingliston i find the bus much faster too. So to me the bus is already much better without needing a fancy livery.

Also if the bus breaks down, you don't have far to transfer to the next. If there is a problem on the tram line or overhead lines, power etc and it's off road section then it's further to walk with luggage. Plus bus is cheaper. Wins all around.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Also if the bus breaks down, you don't have far to transfer to the next. If there is a problem on the tram line or overhead lines, power etc and it's off road section then it's further to walk with luggage. Plus bus is cheaper. Wins all around.

Even journey time and price aside and the bus is just far more pleasant and preferable. The trams lack the upper market feel that the Airlinks have, even if some of the internal fittings fleet like a plastic carrier bag!

 

[Auld reekie]

Thing is though, most of the time i find the 100 more convenient and more comfortable. I'd rather sit facing forward in a double decker than sideways in a tram near a door that's opening constantly bringing in a draft. All the times i've been to the Airport/Ingliston i find the bus much faster too. So to me the bus is already much better without needing a fancy livery.

Totally agree.

 

[tbtc]

Thing is though, most of the time i find the 100 more convenient and more comfortable. I'd rather sit facing forward in a double decker than sideways in a tram near a door that's opening constantly bringing in a draft. All the times i've been to the Airport/Ingliston i find the bus much faster too. So to me the bus is already much better without needing a fancy livery.

Sure, but you're a bus enthusiast. You know your way around Edinburgh.

Put yourself in the shoes of a tourist unfamiliar with Edinburgh arriving at the Airport - new people can trust a tram - especially one with only one line - you don't have to worry you've boarded it in the wrong direction - the stops are clearly labelled - it's predictable - people don't want to land at an Airport in an unfamiliar city and take a risk - especially as a lot of people don't regularly take the bus in their own towns/cities. If it takes an extra couple of minutes then fair enough (but most of the time the tram journey time should be more consistent because it's much less reliable on road congestion).

That's why an Airport bus really requires a distinct livery, something to elevate it above the "common or garden" routes, something to give "strangers" confidence in it being the correct service - so why not make that look upmarket, especially as you're charging people a good bit more than a standard single bus fare in the city.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Sure, but you're a bus enthusiast. You know your way around Edinburgh.

Put yourself in the shoes of a tourist unfamiliar with Edinburgh arriving at the Airport - new people can trust a tram - especially one with only one line - you don't have to worry you've boarded it in the wrong direction - the stops are clearly labelled - it's predictable - people don't want to land at an Airport in an unfamiliar city and take a risk - especially as a lot of people don't regularly take the bus in their own towns/cities. If it takes an extra couple of minutes then fair enough (but most of the time the tram journey time should be more consistent because it's much less reliable on road congestion).

That's why an Airport bus really requires a distinct livery, something to elevate it above the "common or garden" routes, something to give "strangers" confidence in it being the correct service - so why not make that look upmarket, especially as you're charging people a good bit more than a standard single bus fare in the city.

I agree to an extent, although i've never (personally speaking) had much issue with traffic. Bus provision in Edinburgh is fantastic compared to other Scottish cities, so the 100 gets in to the centre rather speedily. To an outsider the tram would be more attractive (Even if the bus is literally at the Airport entrance and the tram is a short walk away), however many visitors to Edinburgh Airport (i suspect the bulk) will not be first time travellers to Edinburgh. The 100 has reliable informative announcements that's a are audibly clear and visually clean. So you're not any more likely to miss your stop, however i'd suspect even first time travellers would likely just stay on till Waverley Bridge anyway.

I should clarify, i wasn't saying they shouldn't bother with a special livery for the Airport service. Actually i'd very strongly say it's a must. My point was just that even without a "special livery" the bus would still be the better option. Of course a special Airport livery is a marketing tool more than anything.

 

[OmniCity999]

1000 LX11 CVM has had its rear doors removed unike the rest of the batch, anyone know why?

To fit in with 1001/1002. Believe its been modernised for a while, since before the dual door policy was introduced. There were teething issues so it's not been delivered.

 

[GusB]

Having seen the photos that @OmniCity999 posted, I have to say I'm impressed with the Airlink livery. I like darker colours, and in my opinion it's quite stylish. Similar to the Lothian Motorcoaches livery in a way. What I can't get my head around is why they need separate brands for Skylink and Airlink - surely if it goes to the airport, one brand should be enough, with only the route number being sufficient to tell the difference between them!

 

[A330Alex]

Having seen the photos that @OmniCity999 posted, I have to say I'm impressed with the Airlink livery. I like darker colours, and in my opinion it's quite stylish. Similar to the Lothian Motorcoaches livery in a way. What I can't get my head around is why they need separate brands for Skylink and Airlink - surely if it goes to the airport, one brand should be enough, with only the route number being sufficient to tell the difference between them!

There’s a subtly different ticketing situation (Plusbus/day tickets are not accepted on Airlink nor the various LCB/ECB tickets that cover the city) - presumably to try and keep Airlink to airport passengers. In comparison most Skylink passengers aren’t airport bound.

Thinking cynically, I wonder if the rebrand and moving away from the Lothian brand might be a way to position themselves to stop accepting Ridacards like on LCB’s Green Arrow Express...

 

[OmniCity999]

There’s a subtly different ticketing situation (Plusbus/day tickets are not accepted on Airlink nor the various LCB/ECB tickets that cover the city) - presumably to try and keep Airlink to airport passengers. In comparison most Skylink passengers aren’t airport bound.

Thinking cynically, I wonder if the rebrand and moving away from the Lothian brand might be a way to position themselves to stop accepting Ridacards like on LCB’s Green Arrow Express...

Possibly, but this could be the long term plan, with the Ridacard becoming obsolete.

Either way, i believe the idea is to have the subsidiaries / brands have a more premium look / feel about them.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Having seen the photos that @OmniCity999 posted, I have to say I'm impressed with the Airlink livery. I like darker colours, and in my opinion it's quite stylish. Similar to the Lothian Motorcoaches livery in a way. What I can't get my head around is why they need separate brands for Skylink and Airlink - surely if it goes to the airport, one brand should be enough, with only the route number being sufficient to tell the difference between them!

alot of the seperately registered brands represent differences in fares, the Skylink still uses City singles for instance but has Airport zone fares also.

Adding to this Trent Barton once said that they wanted there services to be like the caburys chocolate brand, all under the one company but different identities i.e Twirl, Flake, Wispa, buttons etc, similarly why some bus companys do this as its not just then a service but has its own distinct identity.

 

[Darklord8899]

Having seen the photos that @OmniCity999 posted, I have to say I'm impressed with the Airlink livery. I like darker colours, and in my opinion it's quite stylish. Similar to the Lothian Motorcoaches livery in a way. What I can't get my head around is why they need separate brands for Skylink and Airlink - surely if it goes to the airport, one brand should be enough, with only the route number being sufficient to tell the difference between them!

There are differences between Airlink and Skylink services though....
Airlink is limited stop and doesn't accept all ticketing options, e.g. Day Tickets
Skylink are basically all stops city services that also go to the airport (the 300 is the old 35 Ocean Terminal to airport and 400 the old 18, extended from Gyle Centre to Airport) plus you can use Day Tickets on Skylink services (outwith Airport Zone)

So having different liveries does help distinguish the different services, I think the blue version of the City livery suits the Skylink's and the Airlink with its own "premium" livery for a "premium" service

 

[Tom B]

Re ticketing. Don't airlinks accept ordinary all day savers from Mayfield inwards? Just that isn't widely advertised?

Do Lothian think they have to be the mini version of London? Dual-door buses, "oyster" system...

I'd say they effectively are, and have been for many years. They are a major city operation carrying huge volumes of passengers. Dual door buses were the norm until the long Tridents, and they had proximity ridacards from a similar time to when tfl introduced season oysters.

There are various "quirks" which Lothian has (or had - as some seem to have gone in recent years) such as the odd ticket machine location, the fareboxes, tramboards, stair doors, the destination displays complete with colours for express or part route, etc.
I guess these are a combination of major city operation, independence from major groups, and a commitment to quality? I was told by a driver that the unusual positioning of the door buttons was so that the driver could use his right hand for the handbrake, left hand for the doors then be ready to do tickets as soon as people walked on.
Yes, they have their detractors, but I have never found another operator with the same positive attitude and broad committment to good service.

(I do think the new destination displays look naff. I'd have hoped that they'd have intermediate points in small text - surely possible? I did read that a higher resolution display was being tested.)

 

[KGGXXXY]

Re ticketing. Don't airlinks accept ordinary all day savers from Mayfield inwards? Just that isn't widely advertised?

When I lived in Edinburgh (4 years ago before skyline) they didn't accept day tickets (mentioned on the dayticket terms), but the ridacard was accepted, IIRC this was previously outwith the airport initially, but checking Lothian buses website: https://www.lothianbuses.com/our-services/airport-buses/

"Notes on tickets:

• All Airport tickets can be used on either Airlink or Skylink.
• Ridacards are valid on all Airlink, Skylink, and N22 journeys.
• Network Day Tickets* – our go anywhere, anytime ticket – are valid on all Airlink and Skylink journeys.
• Scottish National Concession (including Young Person Concession) cards are valid on all Skylink journeys and on Airlink journeys except night-time journeys (between 00:15 & 03:45 from the City Centre, or between 00:40 & 04:15 from the Airport).

..........For any Skylink journeys between Ocean Terminal (200), Cameron Toll (300), Fort Kinnaird (400) and Ingliston Park & Ride, standard Lothian Buses fares and products apply."

*The Network DAYticket costing £9.00 not the standard £4.00

But as you say it might be an unadvertised thing, or bus driver discretion?

 

[A330Alex]

Re ticketing. Don't airlinks accept ordinary all day savers from Mayfield inwards? Just that isn't widely advertised?

They definitely don't from the centre outwards - something my friend and I discovered after I got on with a Ridacard and they tried to get on with a day ticket! I would've thought it was the same on the way back.

As for the new XLBs, does anyone know what the interior spec is like? I figure 100 seats would be overkill but anything vastly different might make it a pain for bringing into the city fleet later. Then again Lothian aren't shy about spending money at the moment!

(I do think the new destination displays look naff. I'd have hoped that they'd have intermediate points in small text - surely possible? I did read that a higher resolution display was being tested.)

The identical displays at LCB have intermediate points - wish they'd use them around the festival or big events!

 

[Jordan Adam]

As for the new XLBs, does anyone know what the interior spec is like? I figure 100 seats would be overkill but anything vastly different might make it a pain for bringing into the city fleet later. Then again Lothian aren't shy about spending money at the moment

The new Airlinks appear to be internally identical albeit with coach seats, luggage rack and tinted windows.

 

[Darklord8899]

Re ticketing. Don't airlinks accept ordinary all day savers from Mayfield? Maybury? inwards? Just that isn't widely advertised?

As far as I am aware the official line is Day Tickets are NOT accepted on Airlink (that's not to say some drivers may "turn a blind eye" to this)

 

[CM]

As far as I am aware the official line is Day Tickets are NOT accepted on Airlink (that's not to say some drivers may "turn a blind eye" to this)

Pretty sure the Network Day Ticket is accepted on the Airlink Service.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Pretty sure the Network Day Ticket is accepted on the Airlink Service.

You would be correct:

 

[Darklord8899]

Pretty sure the Network Day Ticket is accepted on the Airlink Service.

I was referring to the £4 Day Ticket (that used to be called Day Saver) not the Network Day Ticket

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

On the subject of tickets & fares, do Lothian offer any discounts/incentives for young people aged between 16 and 18?

 

[A330Alex]

On the subject of tickets & fares, do Lothian offer any discounts/incentives for young people aged between 16 and 18?

1/3 off with a Young Scot card.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

1/3 off with a Yong Scot card.

Is that only on single fares or DayTickets too?

 

[90019]

Just on single tickets.

 

[Darklord8899]

Is that only on single fares or DayTickets too?

https://www.lothianbuses.com/tickets/

Young Scot Card is for 1/3 off adult single fares, also gives a £3 fare for Airport Zone

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Thanks. Shame they don't do discounted DayTickets (£3 or £3.50 perhaps). Stagecoach East Scotland offer U19 versions of the majority of their tickets, and Xplore Dundee charge child fares right up to your 19th birthday!

 

[Darklord8899]

Thanks. Shame they don't do discounted DayTickets (£3 or £3.50 perhaps). Stagecoach East Scotland offer U19 versions of the majority of their tickets, and Xplore Dundee charge child fares right up to your 19th birthday!

If you are a student (with valid matriculation card) there is a student Ridacard

 

[overthewater]

Only to Students that go to Edinburgh UNI's or colleges.