Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[Edirim]

Some First bus East/Mid Lothian timetables I have.

 

[Darklord8899]

Some First bus East/Mid Lothian timetables I have.

Awesome!! Thanks for those!!!

 

[Mal]

Some First bus East/Mid Lothian timetables I have.[/QUOTE]

Admittedly way before First came to being, you've taken me back years to when SMT / Eastern Scottish operated similar routes to places like Gorebridge, Newtongrange, Mayfield etc on the screens of green and cream buses. Of the timetables, they are brilliant and it'd be interesting to compare the routes and times with present day Lothian routes.

As for First, how are the mighty fallen?

 

[overthewater]

It was that bus war in 2001 That did it. Lothian doing rather well in most part first used to operate like penicuk. First also had three decent routes within the city which where were also lost to Lothian.

 

[tbtc]

Whilst we're on the subject, Didn't the 35 terminate at Sighthill, before extending to the Airport? There was a photo on suzyscott.com from 2002 ish of an Olympian showing just this (it was around the time First still ran an 11 to Ocean Terminal)

Suzy's is a great site/ resource.

Sighthill used to be the terminus for the 34/35 as well as the 22/25, in the days when the 61 was the bus running beyond there to Herriot Watt (City to Balerno via A71, Sighthill, Herriot Watt and Currie).

The post-deregulation service saw a half hourly LRT 22 extending beyond Sighthill, this was then replaced by a half hourly 65 (which ran directly along the A71, so provided a faster service to the University, as well as attacking the City Sprinter services on the Restlerig - Wester Hailes corridor - C5/C50/ C55).

The 65 was replaced by extended 25s (in the 2000 changes), but then other services gradually extended to the University too, so the 34/35 all do now.

can anyone tell me what route the 28 used to take to get to Clovenstone? There are next to no photos of it online.

The 28/29 was the '90s version of the 17/47 - a loop round Muirhouse - Crewe Toll - Stockbridge - Mound (though the 17/47 terminated at the Meadows IIRC). The Muirhouse loop was essentially the path taken by the 24 and 47 (but without the Gas HQ section) in a circle.

IIRc the 28 and 29 were both every fifteen minutes in the early days.

The Eastern Scottish C1 was more direct into the scheme (like the current 37 to Pennywell), so Lothian retaliated by reducing the 28/29 (half hourly each) and running a 30 (every fifteen minutes, the route was similar to the modern 37).

The 30 became replaced by the 81 (every ten minutes from Muirhouse to St A Square, every half hour beyond there direct to Penicuik).

The southern bit of the 28 (to answer your question) was similar to the current 35 from Greyfriars Bobby to Slateford then Longstone and into Wester Hailes via the current 33 route.

The 29 was withdrawn, the 28 became every twenty minutes (on the "24" side of the Muirhouse loop), eventually the arrival of the 30 along Murrayburn Road killed it off.

The frequency up the Mound these days is fairly sparse compared to what it used to be - e.g. the 28/29 were eight buses per hour, the 42/46 were four buses per hour, the 45 ran that way, the 89... now there's a half hourly single decker on the 42 but no 28/29/45/46/89 (the 23/27 are still around, of course).

 

[Lothian_Bus]

It was that bus war in 2001 That did it. Lothian doing rather well in most part first used to operate like penicuk. First also had three decent routes within the city which where were also lost to Lothian.

I agree with you. 2001 did a lot of damage. I quite liked some of the First routes such as the 86 which offered something a little different to Lothian. I would also use the First 44 at times.

Where they got it badly wrong when they tried to compete with core Lothian routes such as the 11 and 22. We certainly didn't need any extra 22's! It didn't make much sense to me at the time and these routes had gone within a few months.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I agree with you. 2001 did a lot of damage. I quite liked some of the First routes such as the 86 which offered something a little different to Lothian. I would also use the First 44 at times.

Where they got it badly wrong when they tried to compete with core Lothian routes such as the 11 and 22. We certainly didn't need any extra 22's! It didn't make much sense to me at the time and these routes had gone within a few months.

Exactly one reason why deregulation should never have happened, competition just cuts resourses and kills profit, of course lothian buses offer good value for money travel in most instances, for instance £1.70 fare from musselburgh to wester halies on a 30 is pretty blooming good consider first glasgow would likely ask the mid £2 something for the same distance, I completely agree with lothian “forcing” into west lothian and hopefully one day First will be the useless bunch they are and give up.

I spyed on twitter the other day first were at livi outlet handing out timetables, they couldnt have looked less enthusiastic if they had tried!

Apologies for that rant.

 

[Mal]

Exactly one reason why deregulation should never have happened, competition just cuts resourses and kills profit, of course lothian buses offer good value for money travel in most instances, for instance £1.70 fare from musselburgh to wester halies on a 30 is pretty blooming good consider first glasgow would likely ask the mid £2 something for the same distance, I completely agree with lothian “forcing” into west lothian and hopefully one day First will be the useless bunch they are and give up.

I spyed on twitter the other day first were at livi outlet handing out timetables, they couldnt have looked less enthusiastic if they had tried!

Apologies for that rant.

IIRC, the argument for deregulation was that Airlines in USA were deregulated and because it brought cheaper fares via competition, it would work on buses in Britain! The government of the day decided to have a trial period in Herefordshire and Worcestershire, two comparatively thinly populated English counties. This was, somehow, deemed a success so it was decided it would work in the rest of Britain and the travelling public were promised better services and cheaper fares.
What the government should have realised was that the real competition against the bus is from the car. Now 32 years later, we have a spiral of dwindling passenger numbers, increasing fares, worse congestion and a government unwilling to do anything to help the bus industry. Where do we go from here? Answers on a postcard to Downing Street and await a reply, but don't hold your breath !

 

[overthewater]

I spyed on twitter the other day first were at livi outlet handing out timetables, they couldnt have looked less enthusiastic if thy had tried!.

You could have fooled me.......

 

[Gingerbus1991]

You could have fooled me.......

What I like is why Lothian Buses respect there drivers and actually acknowledge them by name, even on twitter!

 

[156443]

does anyone where I can find a fleetlist for Lothian Buses as I'm going to Edinburgh next month, had a look online and cant find one anywhere

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

https://bushobbyist.wixsite.com/bushobbyist/home but it's not been updated since June so some fields are blank ie the ex london 1001-1050 and new ECB 1051-...

 

[Darklord8899]

http://glasgowbuses.000webhostapp.com/Lothian.htm

This fleetlist was updated in July

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Lothian buses twitter is coming from Longstone garage tomorrow. Details can be found on this link.

https://mobile.twitter.com/on_lothianbuses/status/1034761349660860416

 

[overthewater]

Why cant there lower the West Lothian all travel fares...

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Why cant there lower the West Lothian all travel fares...

Or better yet, why don’t they just release a network ridacard instead of pushing the m-ticket app all over us, which is fine but a ridacard would be more value for its buck. They wasted no time with a zone d ridacard when Lothian Country went to Haddington in 2014 so why not now, heck even North Berwick and Dunbar residents don’t have the ridacard options

 

[Darklord8899]

Or better yet, why don’t they just release a network ridacard instead of pushing the m-ticket app all over us, which is fine but a ridacard would be more value for its buck. They wasted no time with a zone d ridacard when Lothian Country went to Haddington in 2014 so why not now, heck even North Berwick and Dunbar residents don’t have the ridacard options

I do think LB/LCB/ECB need to be clearer with the use of Ridacards and there validity on the "Fares" Page of the respective websites.

The LCB Fares Page makes no mention of Ridacards and the validity of them. It is only if you download (or have a paper copy) of the 43 timetable is it mentioned that LB Ridacards are valid in City and City West zones.


Does the Lothian Country zone D Ridacard still exist?
It is mentioned on the ECB FAQ page (see quote below from said page)

Is there a Ridacard for East Coast Buses services?
There is no EastCoastbuses Ridacard however we do offer best value m-ticket bundles for our county and countyPLUS day tickets. Lothian Buses Ridacards are valid in zones a & b, Lothian Country Buses Ridacards are valid in zones C and D – click here for more information.

but there is no reference to this Ridacard or its' costs on the fares page. There is the statement that "Ridacards are valid for travel in zones a & b only"

 

[overthewater]

Why not create a M bundle that matches First in price?

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

They might be overwhelmed if everyone switched to Lothian country

 

[overthewater]

What are you on about? They want to nick all of First bus passengers in West Lothian.

 

[Robertj21a]

What are you on about? They want to nick all of First bus passengers in West Lothian.

Presumably shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[overthewater]

Presumably shouldn't be too difficult.

I think people are overestimating how easy this will be.

 

[goldisgood]

I think people are overestimating how easy this will be.

If they play their cards right it should be easy - if they keep playing them how they are now I'm doubtful of how well this will turn out.

 

[Robertj21a]

I think people are overestimating how easy this will be.

Just register over a few key routes and the rest should collapse.

 

[overthewater]

Just register over a few key routes and the rest should collapse.

Omg there done this already on the main routes i.e. 27/28 and 275. And good number people have not switched because Lothian cost to much. Its been stated first have kept most of these peak passengers..

 

[158756]

Omg there done this already on the main routes i.e. 27/28 and 275. And good number people have not switched because Lothian cost to much. Its been stated first have kept most of these peak passengers..

A couple more routes might do it, as planned for next month. If First aren't interested in a lengthy battle keeping 'most' passengers might not be enough - the second it makes a loss they might be out, even if Lothian's losses are bigger.

 

[Journeyman]

A couple more routes might do it, as planned for next month. If First aren't interested in a lengthy battle keeping 'most' passengers might not be enough - the second it makes a loss they might be out, even if Lothian's losses are bigger.

First is too fragile to be able to make much of a fightback - if they start losing money in West Lothian, they'll throw in the towel completely.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

First is too fragile to be able to make much of a fightback - if they start losing money in West Lothian, they'll throw in the towel completely.

Agreed

 

[overthewater]

First Scotland East has been making losses for donkey years....

 

[Robertj21a]

First Scotland East has been making losses for donkey years....

That was when Tim O'Toole was still in charge. Most people are hoping that more determined action is now underway under the new regime.