Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[SpeedbirdA350]

Rumour has it that an Oyster style system is in the works. Which would see the Ridacard updated.

PAYG - finding you the cheapest option over the course of the month. For example if you keep buying singles over the course of a month, it will find you the cheapest option. Options being a PAYG Ridacard or Credit/Debit card with contactless. Or you could still buy a Ridacard.

Canteen talk of course.

Interesting. I did hear something like this last year was in the works but I heard nothing more so I assumed it has been forgotten about. I assume it would be network wide, and if I understand what you're saying correctly then to find the cheapest on PAYG you'd scan your pass twice in a day and be charged for 2 singles but if you scanned 3 times or more would be charged for a day saver? So, I assume there will be a cost per day limit applied so no one is charged more than that (within the LB only network of course).

Would this be a Lothian only thing or would Lothian be getting this in conjunction with partners such as CityLink? I am sure I read plans before fro this to be a more widespread issue and to include companies like Scotrail in it too but not sure how LB would like that.

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

Seen on Twitter post about the strike being back on .


https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....osals-1-4961940/amp?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Swampy21]

And while I’m here I made up one for LCB just for the heck of it

LothianWest Ridacard - £70 (£17.50 weekly)
CountryWest Ridacard - £55 (£13.75 weekly)

*LothianWest Ridacard is valid on all Lothian services, Skylink, Airlink, Edinburgh Trams, East Coast Buses (Zone A + B) “Discount fares on Zones C-F” and all Zones Lothian Country.

*CountryWest Ridacard is only valid on Lothian Country CountryWest Zones A-C.

Had a look at the m-ticket prices from Firsts weekly/monthly tickets for inspiration, just to imagine if Lothian decided to come up with the brilliant plan to bring out Ridacard for better value on their services and reasonable fares to draw in more buyers, but this is just merely opinion!

I stay in West Lothian (Whitburn) and something similar to the above would be a good move.
As has been said above, I'm also at a loss to explain WHY something like this hasn't already been done.
Now, I can't speak for other folks, but, using my own circumstances, I can see that the above would be a good thing to bring in.
I currently buy a First 4-week ticket from the Co-op on the 21st of every month and that sorts me out for 28 CONSECUTIVE days in ALL of First zone L.
As I understand it, looking at the LCB website, their equivalent is the CountryWEST bundle which comprises of 20x day tickets for the princely sum of £50........However, it comes only in M-Ticket form, which my phone is incompatible with, being neither android or an iPhone and a footnote on the site states "m-ticket bundles can be used on any non-consecutive days within 180 days."
So, First offer a Monthly ticket that covers ALL West Lothian for 28 consecutive days for £60, or LCB offers 20 non-consecutive days for £50, but only if you have it on your phone........
IF LCB were to bring out something similar to the above Ridacard "guesstimation" that EastCoaster "made up", then I would happily pay an extra £10 per month for more frequent, more reliable, cleaner buses and friendlier drivers (As i suspect most other WL residents who buy a first 4-week would).......as long as I could buy a "hard copy" and it ran for 28 Consecutive days, but right now, the First 4-week is the better deal for me.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Seen on Twitter post about the strike being back on .

Any chance you could link the post as a source of reference? As always with Strikes there's always a raging sea of inaccurate rumours.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Rumour has it that an Oyster style system is in the works. Which would see the Ridacard updated.

PAYG - finding you the cheapest option over the course of the month. For example if you keep buying singles over the course of a month, it will find you the cheapest option. Options being a PAYG Ridacard or Credit/Debit card with contactless. Or you could still buy a Ridacard.

Canteen talk of course.

that sounds like a great idea, id assume it would cover all Lothian, LC, EC, Trams etc.. if its similar to oyster would it incorporate trains aswell in the lothians?

 

[A330Alex]

that sounds like a great idea, id assume it would cover all Lothian, LC, EC, Trams etc.. if its similar to oyster would it incorporate trains aswell in the lothians?

It would start getting a bit difficult once you don’t have a flat fare - would either need to have people tap out when leaving or have fare gates (doable on trams at the airport).

To be honest I’d be surprised if anything came of it considering they’ve already implemented the simple contactless system on everything but city services. Just imagine the moaning if they had a different system on LB vs others!

 

[Tom B]

An oyster style system is really what a network like that needs, not the type of thing other operators have where you have to faff around and print a ticket etc - then everyone simply touches and moves on as they enter the bus. Look at how quickly a tfl bus boards vs anywhere else!

Presumably the benefits of the dual doors are greatest where there's a lot of churn in the city centre with passengers simultaneously boarding and alighting? I recall a few of the 51 plate tridents with dual doors being used on rush 22s some years ago and the difference was noticeable.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Would this be a Lothian only thing or would Lothian be getting this in conjunction with partners such as CityLink? I am sure I read plans before fro this to be a more widespread issue and to include companies like Scotrail in it too but not sure how LB would like that.

I feel that it would be useful if the £4 day ticket could be used on ScotRail services between stations within the City zone (i.e. Edinburgh Gateway, Edinburgh Park, Curriehill, Gorebridge, Prestonpans). This could help speed certain journeys up, e.g. City Centre to areas around Mussleburgh.

 

[takno]

I stay in West Lothian (Whitburn) and something similar to the above would be a good move.
As has been said above, I'm also at a loss to explain WHY something like this hasn't already been done.
Now, I can't speak for other folks, but, using my own circumstances, I can see that the above would be a good thing to bring in.
I currently buy a First 4-week ticket from the Co-op on the 21st of every month and that sorts me out for 28 CONSECUTIVE days in ALL of First zone L.
As I understand it, looking at the LCB website, their equivalent is the CountryWEST bundle which comprises of 20x day tickets for the princely sum of £50........However, it comes only in M-Ticket form, which my phone is incompatible with, being neither android or an iPhone and a footnote on the site states "m-ticket bundles can be used on any non-consecutive days within 180 days."
So, First offer a Monthly ticket that covers ALL West Lothian for 28 consecutive days for £60, or LCB offers 20 non-consecutive days for £50, but only if you have it on your phone........
IF LCB were to bring out something similar to the above Ridacard "guesstimation" that EastCoaster "made up", then I would happily pay an extra £10 per month for more frequent, more reliable, cleaner buses and friendlier drivers (As i suspect most other WL residents who buy a first 4-week would).......as long as I could buy a "hard copy" and it ran for 28 Consecutive days, but right now, the First 4-week is the better deal for me.

I absolutely hate mobile ticketing. I have a compatible phone, but frankly the whole process still doesn't feel robust to me. I'm a bit confused over this non-consecutive vs consecutive thing though - for most people the combination of not having to use a ticket on your days off and a £10 a month discount would easily cover the cost of any usage at weekends?

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Seen on Twitter post about the strike being back on .


https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....osals-1-4961940/amp?__twitter_impression=true

I was not aware it was even off. I know the EEN chipshop paper wrote a story on it being scrapped but they often write stories to fix past mistakes and I think this is another of those.

Of course, if it was off in the first place, surely we'd have heard from people before now...

However, it's not just LB who might be getting ready for strike action, but Scotrail too.

 

[Swampy21]

I absolutely hate mobile ticketing. I have a compatible phone, but frankly the whole process still doesn't feel robust to me. I'm a bit confused over this non-consecutive vs consecutive thing though - for most people the combination of not having to use a ticket on your days off and a £10 a month discount would easily cover the cost of any usage at weekends?

That's where the First ticket scores for me........... Due to ill health, the powers that be in their ivory tower in Swansea are "babysitting" my car, HGV and PSV licences until further notice, so I use the bus daily. The LCB ticket says 20 non-consecutive days, so I'd be confined to within walking distance of my house every other day with that option, whereas, the First 4-week is 28 Consecutive days, so I can use that every day to visit such delightful locations as Armadale, Livingston, Bathgate and for a REAL treat, I can go to Newbridge on it.............

 

[takno]

That's where the First ticket scores for me........... Due to ill health, the powers that be in their ivory tower in Swansea are "babysitting" my car, HGV and PSV licences until further notice, so I use the bus daily. The LCB ticket says 20 non-consecutive days, so I'd be confined to within walking distance of my house every other day with that option, whereas, the First 4-week is 28 Consecutive days, so I can use that every day to visit such delightful locations as Armadale, Livingston, Bathgate and for a REAL treat, I can go to Newbridge on it.............

It's non consecutive in the sense that they don't *have* to be consecutive. Making it so you could only use alternate days would be lunatic

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

It's non consecutive in the sense that they don't *have* to be consecutive. Making it so you could only use alternate days would be lunatic

I read non-consecutive to mean you can use on day 1, 3, 5 you can't use 1, 2, etc.. so their wording is extremly poor. It should be 20 day tickets which can be used on any days, within 180 days of purchase (if it is 180 days). That way it's clearer. However, 20 day ticket, while it's okay for those working mon-fri, don't want to go on a bus at weekend and would last therefore 28 days, what about the other 2 or 3 days of the month? I think LCB need to work on that a little more and think about selling a regular month long pass or 28 days flat

 

[Swampy21]

It's non consecutive in the sense that they don't *have* to be consecutive. Making it so you could only use alternate days would be lunatic

Either the wording is VERY badly wrong or it is indeed Lunatic........
https://lothiancountry.co.uk/fares-tickets/ At the bottom it quite CLEARLY states " m-ticket bundles can be used on any non-consecutive days within 180 days."
Consecutive means one after the other, back to back, in regular succession without gaps........
Now, either my English teacher was an idiot, or someone at LCB is.........because the way that's worded it means that M-Ticket Bundles can only be used on alternate days.........which, is no use for folks using it for work, or folks like me who need to be places every day.......

 

[ScotRail158725]

Dont know if this is old news byt 1062 has a contactless thing on it.

 

[Darklord8899]

Dont know if this is old news byt 1062 has a contactless thing on it.

.... all the new bus stop info have "pay by contactless" info on them, so I'm guessing that it will be live from 14th July changes.... though haven't seen anything official on the subject.... but then, why advertise it if it's not happening....

 

[nicholaswood]

.... all the new bus stop info have "pay by contactless" info on them, so I'm guessing that it will be live from 14th July changes.... though haven't seen anything official on the subject.... but then, why advertise it if it's not happening....

A page, which seems to have been deleted from their website, said the following yesterday:

Tap, Tap, Cap – no need to decide what ticket to purchase, just tap your contactless card or device every time you need to travel and we’ll automatically charge you the cheapest daily fare for the journeys you’ve made.

Paying by contactless is easy! All you need to do is:

- tap your card or device on the card reader
- wait for the positive beep and green lights
- take a seat!

Daily capping is currently only available on Lothiancity, Skylink, and service 43. We’re working on adding daily capping to Airlink, LothianCountry, and EastCoastbuses, and this will become available in a future update – keep an eye out on this website and our social media feeds for updates.

Contactless payments are only currently available for individual travel. You can’t share the same contactless card to pay for travel – if you’re travelling with other people, each person must use a different contactless card. We’re working on adding the ability to purchase paper tickets with contactless, without any capping, which will become available in a future update.

It was on www.lothianbuses.com/contactless, but didn't have any dates mentioned on the page.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

468-471 on loan to ECB today. Operating on service x5

 

[computerSaysNo]

468-471 on loan to ECB today. Operating on service x5

What type of buses are these?

 

[takno]

I read non-consecutive to mean you can use on day 1, 3, 5 you can't use 1, 2, etc.. so their wording is extremly poor. It should be 20 day tickets which can be used on any days, within 180 days of purchase (if it is 180 days). That way it's clearer. However, 20 day ticket, while it's okay for those working mon-fri, don't want to go on a bus at weekend and would last therefore 28 days, what about the other 2 or 3 days of the month? I think LCB need to work on that a little more and think about selling a regular month long pass or 28 days flat

I don't disagree about monthly passes. Introducing a confusing mobile-only mess for period ticketing and then calling it non-consecutive when they appear to mean carnets doesn't help anybody. I've just heard this alternating days thing repeated so many times I'm starting to worry that a lot of people think it works that way.

 

[scosutsut]

What type of buses are these?

Gemini 3s from the normal service 26 pool i think

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I don't disagree about monthly passes. Introducing a confusing mobile-only mess for period ticketing and then calling it non-consecutive when they appear to mean carnets doesn't help anybody. I've just heard this alternating days thing repeated so many times I'm starting to worry that a lot of people think it works that way.

And IS putting customers off from buying it due to that. Wording is critical, even more so for a new service.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Gemini 3s from the normal service 26 pool i think

That's correct.

The Scottish Open is taking place in North Berwick so these buses will be on loan to provide extra capacity.

 

[A330Alex]

If anyone has seen a city bus fitted with contactless, are they the same readers as ECB/LCB?

Doesn’t seem the most intuitive if they’re the same - a smaller reader perhaps mounted on a post might have made it more obvious that you’re just meant to tap rather than ask for a ticket. Will be curious to see how they’re going to manage the different Skylink/Country West fare zones!

 

[Lothian_Bus]

If anyone has seen a city bus fitted with contactless, are they the same readers as ECB/LCB?

Doesn’t seem the most intuitive if they’re the same - a smaller reader perhaps mounted on a post might have made it more obvious that you’re just meant to tap rather than ask for a ticket. Will be curious to see how they’re going to manage the different Skylink/Country West fare zones!

They look the same yes.

 

[oldman]

Daily capping is currently only available on Lothiancity, Skylink, and service 43. We’re working on adding daily capping to Airlink, LothianCountry, and EastCoastbuses, and this will become available in a future update – keep an eye out on this website and our social media feeds for updates.

If that is the plan, it is going to be a problem for those ECB routes which carry most or all of their passengers within the LothianCity area. A tourist goes to Portobello on a 26, contactless counts towards a daily cap, a 124 comes along on the way back (half the service on a Sunday), contactless it doesn't count towards the cap? Is that what they're saying?

 

[OmniCity999]

Demo EvoRa 299 has made it out, despite the vault issues etc.

The issue with the capping etc is that EC, LCB Airlink and Skylink are all on the new system, whereas the main fleet is on a custom system, the other fleets are on a basic system. So when the main fleet of buses with the advanced system is all deployed, the other fleets will be updated when available. It's all software based so it's all created in an office and just updated to machines so shouldnt take too long to sort out.

Customers can use their contactless cards or devices like a Ridacard in that they can just keep paying for journeys and the system works put the cheapest daily, weekly, monthly and yearly prices. This may well see the end of the Ridacard, although as my previous post, its thought the ridacards will be sticking around for a while longer.

Special pricew are being created for All zones of all the subsidiaries so effectively every subsidiary will have a Ridacard product without creating the infrastructure for it.

They request their journey from the driver and carry out the transaction as normal and the cheapest fair will be deducted over time.

Weather the talk of rail links being valid is true or not remains to be seen, but it would be excellent. I believe the grand plan is for customers to be able to use any Edinburgh or Lothians train station and it would work out the best price, cross compatibility with buses means customers would be able to use the full Lothian bus network and the full Edinburgh / Lothians rail network. But again, weather it's true or not...

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Demo EvoRa 299 has made it out, despite the vault issues etc.

I assume it has no tracker as 5005 is not active. Route 1 is not showing it either.

With 5 buses being damaged earlier this morning by those neds in Niddrie, I wonder what the plans could be for the future of that area. It's not as easy as some think to just remove services as it's a major route and if they did re-route via Duddingston for example, what's to stop the (thinking of polite word to insert here but can't think of one) *****s from just moving down the road too? Also not great for those who are reliant on those buses and live there such as elderly and disabled if it were to be re-routed. 3 hour period and police did not seem to do much. Not critisising them as such but 3 hours 5 buses... It's also not the first time this has happened there too.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Does Lothian have two different types of hybrid single-decker bus? I thought they only had one type (those used on the route 30, which have completely sealed (non-opening) windows). However I was on route 1 recently and I saw a hybrid with opening windows; the engine also sounded different. Are there two separate hybrid fleets, or have I just happened to only catch the buses with the sealed windows before? Thanks

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Lothian has 3 singles. Volvo 7905LH, (fleet 1-50), B7RLEs (fleet 1xx + 10101-10199) and B8RLEs (10051-10065). The one that was on route 1 today was a demo from Volvo, eVoRa BV19LND