Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[LothianBusesPh]

I've often drifted off into fantasy land and wondered what would be good and what wouldn't. An idea I'd come up with was a new road bridge crossing the ECML at Dolphingstone which could allow a new express service, X8 if you will, to run as the X6 from Edinburgh to Wallyford and run via the new road to Strawberry Corner Garden Centre, then turning right and heading along the A199 before crossing the ECML and serving the new housing areas in Prestonpans before continuing to a new terminus point in Blindwells. This could be achieved even without the new fantasy bridge by using existing roads but the new bridge would solve a lot of problems, reducing congestion through Wallyford and at Strawberry Corner Roundabout as a good portion of the traffic in Wallyford is headed to Prestonpans. Less congestion, less delays on the buses, better service!

I really think that Prentice of all companies could consider doing an X8, From Blindwells to the Fort Kinnaird, Possibly Edinburgh which would be ideal but I don't see Prentice doing that so quickly.

 

[cammyeaston]

I really think that Prentice of all companies could consider doing an X8, From Blindwells to the Fort Kinnaird, Possibly Edinburgh which would be ideal but I don't see Prentice doing that so quickly.

As much as I'd like to see Prentice getting a slice of the East Lothian - Edinburgh pie, unless they and Lothian came to a mutual ticketing arrangement, it wouldn't be in the best interests of passengers.

Lothian have publicly struggled with resourcing and recruitment of late so a partnership with Prentice in the region could be something that benefits both parties and would be something that I'd be very interested in seeing. Prentice get their foot in the door of a wider market, with Lothian getting a little wedge of the revenue as a result of shared ticket. Prentice could get a little wedge of 106 revenue so that the 106/108 could be integrated.

I know this is all deep deep fantasy and there are probably business rules which prevent it but it would be an interesting arrangement.

 

[stevenedin]

There is always One-Ticket which offers travel on multiple operators. In some cases this can be much more expensive but means that you only need the one ticket.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

As much as I'd like to see Prentice getting a slice of the East Lothian - Edinburgh pie, unless they and Lothian came to a mutual ticketing arrangement, it wouldn't be in the best interests of passengers.

Lothian have publicly struggled with resourcing and recruitment of late so a partnership with Prentice in the region could be something that benefits both parties and would be something that I'd be very interested in seeing. Prentice get their foot in the door of a wider market, with Lothian getting a little wedge of the revenue as a result of shared ticket. Prentice could get a little wedge of 106 revenue so that the 106/108 could be integrated.

I know this is all deep deep fantasy and there are probably business rules which prevent it but it would be an interesting arrangement.

I am surprised nobody has pointed out that the 108 and 106 are practically the same route, only extended 106 journeys are different.
That's the service 108;

This is the service 106

The only difference is some peak Services of the 106 and the tiniest of sections from Musselburgh Police Station - The Roundabout.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I am surprised nobody has pointed out that the 108 and 106 are practically the same route, only extended 106 journeys are different.
That's the service 108;
View attachment 117624
This is the service 106
View attachment 117625
The only difference is some peak Services of the 106 and the tiniest of sections from Musselburgh Police Station - The Roundabout.

The only differences between the 106 and 108 between Fort Kinnaird and Haddington are the routes in Musselburgh. The 106 serves North High Street and Linkfield Road. The 108 serves Tesco and Pinkie Road. The 108 no longer serves MacBeth Moir despite what the map says - I believe this stopped when the 118 started.

In addition to this 2 108’s per day (1 to in the morning, 1 from in the evening) run to/from Elphinstone Research Centre. During the day two routes combine to offer a pretty much half hourly service from Haddington to Fort Kinnaird.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The only differences between the 106 and 108 between Fort Kinnaird and Haddington are the routes in Musselburgh. The 106 serves North High Street and Linkfield Road. The 108 serves Tesco and Pinkie Road. The 108 no longer serves MacBeth Moir despite what the map says - I believe this stopped when the 118 started.

In addition to this 2 108’s per day (1 to in the morning, 1 from in the evening) run to/from Elphinstone Research Centre. During the day two routes combine to offer a pretty much half hourly service from Haddington to Fort Kinnaird.

There is little to no difference in the grand scheme of things though.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Lothian and Prentice route duplication, fantasy routes, ticketing, shared revenue and other side topics are a very interesting discussion and probably warrant their own thread. Would one of our lovely moderators please split these posts before it gets out of hand?

 

[GusB]

Lothian and Prentice route duplication, fantasy routes, ticketing, shared revenue and other side topics are a very interesting discussion and probably warrant their own thread. Would one of our lovely moderators please split these posts before it gets out of hand?

There is an existing thread for discussing independent operators, which you'll find here:

Independent Operators in the Lothians

Didn't want to clog up the Lothian / ECB thread (although they may warrant separating, in which case perhaps this thread could be East Lothian Operators?) For now this is to cover the East Lothian Independent operators e.g. NOT East Coast Buses nor Borders Buses etc. I note from a Flickr...

www.railforums.co.uk

Anyone who feels that a partnership between Prentice and Lothian warrants a separate thread is welcome to start one.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Yep here we go! Service change now up

Service 3 - Minor timetable change
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 4 - Minor timetable change
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 5 - Minor timetable change
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 7 - Evening frequency will change to every 30 minutes
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 8 - Minor timetable change
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 10 - Minor timetable change
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 11 - Leith Walk will be partially reopened. Journeys will operate via Leith Walk and Pilrig Street in both directions.
No timetable change.

Service 16 -
Rerouted in the city centre via Princes Street and Leith Street. In response to customer feedback, a direct link will be restore from The Shore to Waverley Steps for onward rail connections.
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 19 will no longer stop at Stop PN on Princes Street in efforts to reduce congestion at Waverley Steps. It will continue to stop at PK on Princes Street and ZK on Waterloo Place.
No timetable change.

Service 22 - Marked as no longer stopping at PN and using PK instead. Also has a hefty timetable cut
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 23 - Minor timetable change
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 27 - Minor timetable change
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 30 - Saturday frequency changed to 12 minutes
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 44 has been marked as no changes however I noticed the VOSA registration was changed, the timetable has also been changed.
Old Timetable vs New Timetable

Service 49 will no longer stop at Stop PN on Princes Street in efforts to reduce congestion at Waverley Steps. It will continue to stop at GL on George Street and JD on Leith Street.
No timetable change.

Services 15, 22, 43, X18, X27, X28
Will now stop at Stop PK instead of Stop PN on Princes Street in efforts to reduce congestion at Waverley Steps.
Timetables not changed.

That's all I can see for now

With regards the 44 there are several short journeys to Elm Row now listed so does this mean Central will be operating some again?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

With regards the 44 there are several short journeys to Elm Row now listed so does this mean Central will be operating some again?

It will hopefully be a mixture of both, like the Service 26, etc. It will offer earlier starts from a range of places since it's a flagship "mega route".

 

[computerSaysNo]

It will hopefully be a mixture of both, like the Service 26, etc. It will offer earlier starts from a range of places since it's a flagship "mega route".

The 26 is fully from Marine isn't it?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

As much as I'd like to see Prentice getting a slice of the East Lothian - Edinburgh pie, unless they and Lothian came to a mutual ticketing arrangement, it wouldn't be in the best interests of passengers.

Lothian have publicly struggled with resourcing and recruitment of late so a partnership with Prentice in the region could be something that benefits both parties and would be something that I'd be very interested in seeing. Prentice get their foot in the door of a wider market, with Lothian getting a little wedge of the revenue as a result of shared ticket. Prentice could get a little wedge of 106 revenue so that the 106/108 could be integrated.

To be honest I could maybe see that working, as Prentice are the second well known operators in East Lothian, except maybe Eve Coaches. Plus Lothian do publicly acknowledge Prentice services like with the service numbers appearing on the stop board in Musselburgh, and when the 30 was re-routed on Stoneybank Lothian openly suggested the 111 as an alternative, which was very surprising, plus they did interlink tickets with the 69 service!

The footwork has been done and considering they serve essentially very similar areas with a few exceptions, like with ECB for Elphinstone, New Winton, Humbie and Drem (during the day), and likewise Prentice in the city centre. It could work, but if it’s ever done well that’s another story.

also hopefully a bus service will run through the back road on Wallyford “Mason’s Way”, perhaps a rerouted 44 with a new terminus point? Or the X6/106? Maybe even reroute the 113 to serve Wallyford.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

also hopefully a bus service will run through the back road on Wallyford “Mason’s Way”, perhaps a rerouted 44 with a new terminus point? Or the X6/106? Maybe even reroute the 113 to serve Wallyford.

This is what myself, @Grumpyscot, @LothianBusesPh and @cammyeaston were talking about above and in the last page if you want to read our suggestions.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The 26 is fully from Marine isn't it?

Look at the timetables, it mainly is but not fully. Mainly early journeys etc.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Look at the timetables, it mainly is but not fully. Mainly early journeys etc.

As far as I know, the 26 is run fully from Marine with no booked journeys from other depots.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

As far as I know, every booked journey on the 26 is run from Marine.

I'm probably thinking of Pre-Covid, it definitely used to. I didn't think Lothian would go that far as to keep their biggest route exclusively in 1 depot?

Sidenote, that carnival is going to hinder the bus services big time.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I'm probably thinking of Pre-Covid, it definitely used to. I didn't think Lothian would go that far as to keep their biggest route exclusively in 1 depot?

The 26 hasn’t run from any depot other than Marine in the past 20 years. Before then i cant recall maybe someone else can confirm

 

[exeter 50044]

I have seen 845 this morning in its new ECB livery going to the Volvo garage in Broxburn.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

The 26 hasn’t run from any depot other than Marine in the past 20 years. Before then i cant recall maybe someone else can confirm

The 26 has been run fully from Marine as far as I can remember - that's going back to the 1980's. Pre Covid there was a morning journey run from Central but that was just a return of the previous journey which had been operating as the N26. It may still happen for all I know.

 

[Graham Alexand]

I have seen 845 this morning in its new ECB livery going to the Volvo garage in Broxburn.

843 seemed to be there earlier in the week too.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

843 seemed to be there earlier in the week too.

Do you think that they could be getting work done? I doubt they will be going to LCB.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Do you think that they could be getting work done? I doubt they will be going to LCB.

Must be work done or MOT related stuff.

 

[CN04NRJ]

With regards the 44 there are several short journeys to Elm Row now listed so does this mean Central will be operating some again?

Yes, 6 buses M-F. Not sure about weekends.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Yes, 6 buses M-F. Not sure about weekends.

I'm surprised Central are able to take on extra capacity. Unless something is moving in the other direction?

Do we know if these timetable changes are considered as temporary?

 

[CN04NRJ]

I'm surprised Central are able to take on extra capacity. Unless something is moving in the other direction?

Do we know if these timetable changes are considered as temporary?

I believe until September, hopefully we'll see an almost completely 'normal' service then. Central seems to be the best capable of covering work at the moment, certainly no shortage of overtime for the willing!

 

[InOban]

I believe until September, hopefully we'll see an almost completely 'normal' service then. Central seems to be the best capable of covering work at the moment, certainly no shortage of overtime for the willing!

How can we see a normal service until after the North Bridge reopens, and the tram extension is operational, both, AFAIU, early next year?

 

[Porty]

How can we see a normal service until after the North Bridge reopens, and the tram extension is operational, both, AFAIU, early next year?

Council websites says North Bridge project is not complete till 2024. Having said that it may be open to two way traffic prior to completion. Trams supposedly taking paying customers on the extension in Spring 2023.

Mod note - when referring to an external source, you should provide a link to the source, and a suitable quote from it. Thanks

 

[CN04NRJ]

How can we see a normal service until after the North Bridge reopens, and the tram extension is operational, both, AFAIU, early next year?

Hence why I wrote normal as "normal", or perhaps i should have written 'normal' - and said "almost". How do you define normal these days anyway?

 

[ScotRail158725]

There seems to be quite a lot of buses terminating short at Longstone at the minute. I've seen quite a few the past couple of weeks.

 

[Darklord8899]

There seems to be quite a lot of buses terminating short at Longstone at the minute. I've seen quite a few the past couple of weeks.

I've noticed it as well...
I was thinking that it could be a combination of:
~ bus running so late it's going off service and resuming service somewhere else
~ no driver available to take over bus (due to any number of issues)