Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[chiltern trev]

Edinburgh schoolchildren 'covered in shards of glass' as bus crashes into tree​

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/new...-schoolchildren-covered-shards-glass-27018131

A bus carrying schoolchildren came to a shuddering halt as an upstairs window was impaled on a tree branch during a morning commute - with passengers covered in shards of glass.

A bus carrying schoolchildren during Tuesday's morning rush hour crashed into a tree - with a branch shattering an upstairs window.

The number 27 bus was travelling from Hunter's Tryst towards the city centre at the time of the incident. One branch pierced the glass covering passengers with shards.

Lothian Buses have told Edinburgh Live that they are looking into the situation and Edinburgh Council said in response to a tweet that they have been in touch with the forestry team.


One eyewitness explained: "I was going to work on bus 27 from Hunter's Tryst going towards the city centre. Lothian Bus driver was trying to beat the traffic, instead of waiting on the traffic lights, he decided to go ahead on the Glenlockhart Road junction, on the left line, forcing the way through the tree brunches.

 

[ejstubbs]

It could be from a year ago or more, to be honest! I’d be very interested to hear the story behind the incident but I doubt there’s any information available.

I believe the incident shown in the video is the same as this one reported in the EEN today (30th May):

Man arrested and charged after collision between car and bus in Edinburgh

Man charged after collision between bus and car in Edinburgh

www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com

A man has been charged after a crash involving a bus and a car in Edinburgh’s Jock’s Lodge area.

The 58-year-old was arrested after a blue Dacia car collided with a bus at around 9pm on Wednesday, May 24, near Piershill Square West.

In a statement, Police Scotland said: “A 58-year-old man arrested and charged following a road traffic incident which happened around 9.10pm on Wednesday, May 24, 2023, in the Jocks Lodge area of Edinburgh. The incident involved a bus and a blue Dacia car. He was traced at the time. A report will be sent to the procurator fiscal.”

Note the reference the the blue Dacia.

There still doesn't seem to be much additional information being made available at this point, though. In particular, there's no mention of what offences the driver of the Dacia was charged with.

 

[sannox]

Edinburgh schoolchildren 'covered in shards of glass' as bus crashes into tree

The 'eyewitness' stuff sounds a bit far fetched. There is no way you can avoid waiting on the traffic lights there and the left hand lane is for traffic continuing straight on as the 27 route crosses Glenlockhart Road. No surprise the bus was in the left lane to serve both stops before and after the lights. The trees shouldn't be overhanging that much and that's the fault of the council.

 

[VioletEclipse]

If I remember right there was a large move towards clearing low-hanging tree branches from roads a few years back. Since then it has been significantly less common for a bus to slam into a tree branch, which used to happen routinely, espescially on Melville Drive from memory. I would have thought the council would ensure that tree branches able to smash vehicle windows beside busy roads would be carefully monitored so they don't pose a risk.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I've typed this up because I'm bored. Early weekday allocations post-timetable change.
Vehicles Key
x/y(z){n} = chassis x, with body y. z = year of manufacture/introduction to service. n = number of type on route, where there are multiple types on that route.

Chassis:
7900 = Volvo 7900H (integral)
B5 = Volvo B5TL chassis
B5H = Volvo B5LH chassis
B9 = Volvo B9TL chassis
BYD = BYD electric bus chassis
B8 = Volvo B8L (when with double-deck body) or B8RLE (when with single-deck body)
B7 = Volvo B7RLE chassis

Bodies:
7900 = Volvo 7900H (integral)
400MMC = Alexander Dennis Enviro400MMC body
400XLB = Alexander Dennis Enviro400MMC XLB body
G3 = Wright Gemini 3 body
G3z = Wright Gemini 3 (Zoo-branded vehicles)
G3xA = Wright Gemini 3 (ex-Airlink vehicles with blue interior)
G2n = Wright Gemini 2 (vehicles native to Edinburgh)
G2sd = Wright Gemini 2 (ex-London vehicles converted to single-door)
G2dd = Wright Gemini 2 (ex-London vehicles retaining double doors)
G1 = Wright Gemini body
Evora = MCV Evora body
U2 = Wright Urban 2 body
U3 = Wright Urban 3 body

Others:
Wright/Lite = Wright StreetLite
ADL/E300 = Alexander Dennis Enviro300 (classic)

Route	Termini	Vehicles on route	Vehicles
1	Clermiston - Seafield	11	7900(2013/2014)
2	Hermiston Gait - The Jewel	8	7900(2014)
3	Clovenstone - Mayfield	19	B5/400MMC(2021){17} B5H/G3(2015){1} B9/G2sd(2011){1}
4	Hillend - Queen Margaret	9	B9/G2sd(2011)
5	Hunter's Tryst	8	B9/G2sd(2011)
7	Newhaven - Royal Infirmary	7	B9/G2n(2011){6} B5/G3(2015){1}
8	Muirhouse - Royal Infirmary	7	B9/G2n(2011)
9	Muirhouse - King's Buildings	6	B9/G2n(2011){5} B5/G3(2015){1}
10	Ocean Terminal - Bonaly	8	B9/G2n(2011){7} BYD/400EV(2021){1}
11	Western Harbour - Hyvots Bank	15	B8/400XLB(2019){12} B5/400MMC(2021){2} B9/G2n(2011){1}
12	Gyle Centre - King's Road	7	7900(2013/2014){6} B9/G2sd(2011){1}
13	Craigleith - Restalrig	Unknown	Unknown
14	Muirhouse - Greendykes	8	B9/G2n(2011){7} B5/G3(2015){1}
15	Waterloo Place - Easter Bush	2	B9/G2n(2011)
16	Silverknowes - Torphin	18	B8/400XLB(2019)
19	Granton - Eastfield	10	B5/400MMC(2021){8} B5/G3(2017z){1} B9/G2n(2011){1}
20	Ratho - Chesser	3	ADL/E300(2012){1} Wright/Lite(2013){1} Wright/Lite(2014){1}
21	Clovenstone/Gyle Centre - Royal Infirmary	15	B5/G3(2014){14} B9/G2sd(2011){1}
22	Gyle Centre - Granton Harbour	7	B5/G3(2015)
23	Trinity - Greenbank	8	B5/400MMC(2021){6} B8/400XLB(2019){1} B9/G2n(2011){1}
24	West Granton - Royal Infirmary	8	B5/G3(2016){4} BYD/400EV(2021){3} B9/G2n(2011){1}
25	Heriot-Watt - Restalrig	14	B5/400MMC(2021){13} B5H/G3(2015){1}
26	Clerwood - Seton Sands/Tranent	24	B5/G3z(2017){19} B5/400MMC(2021){2} B5/G3(2014){1} B9/G2sd(2011){1} B9/G2n(2011){1}
27	Silverknowes - Hunter's Tryst	8	B5/G3(2016){7} B5/G3z(2017){1}
29	Silverknowes - Gorebridge	10	B5/G3(2016){8} B5/G3z(2017){2}
30	Clovenstone - Queen Margaret	19	B8/Evora(2020)
31	East Craigs - Bonnyrigg/Polton Mill	13	B8/400XLB(2019){12} B5/400MMC(2021){1}
33	Wester Hailes	9	B9/G2dd(2011){7} B9/G2sd(2011){1} B5/400MMC(2021){1}
34	Heriot-Watt - Ocean Terminal	9	B5H/G3(2015){8} B9/G2sd(2011){1}
35	Heriot-Watt - Ocean Terminal	8	B5H/G3(2015){5} B5/400MMC(2021){2} B5/G3xA(2017){1}
36	Gyle Centre - Ocean Terminal	7	7900(2014){6} B8/Evora(2020){1}
37	Silverknowes - Penicuik	14	B5/400MMC(2021)
38	West Granton - Royal Infirmary	7	B8/Evora(2020){6} 7900(2014){1}
43	Edinburgh - Queensferry	7	B5H/G3(2017)
44	Balerno - Wallyford	18	B5/400MMC(2021){14} B5/G3xA(2017){1} B5/G3(2015){1} B5H/G3(2015){1} B9/G2dd(2011){1}
45	Heriot-Watt - Eastfield	6	B9/G2n(2011){5} B5/G3(2014){1}
46	Rosewell - Musselburgh	6	B7/U2(2013){5} 7900(2014){1}
47	Cammo - Penicuik	10	B8/400XLB(2019){5} B5/400MMC(2021){5}
48	Gorebridge - Musselburgh	8	B7/U2(2013){5} 7900(2014){3}
49	Fort Kinnaird - Royal Infirmary	9	B5/G3(2014){5} B9/G2sd(2011){4}
63	Balerno - Queensferry	2	Wright/Lite(2013){1} Wright/Lite(2014){1}
106	Queen Margaret - Haddington	2	B8/U3(2017)
113	Western General - Pencaitland	6	B9/G2(2010){3} B9/G1(2008){2} B5/G3(2018){1}
124	Edinburgh - North Berwick	7	B5/G3(2018){4} B9/G1(2008){2} B9/G2(2010){1}
139	Midlothian Community Hospital	1	B9/G1(2008)
140 141	Penicuik - Musselburgh	5	B9/G2(2010){4} B9/G2(2009){1}
X5	Edinburgh - North Berwick	3	B8/U3(2017)
X6	Edinburgh - Haddington	6	B9/G2(2010){4} B9/G1(2008){2}
X7	Edinburgh - Dunbar	7	B8/U3(2017)
X18	Edinburgh - Whitburn	8	B9/G2sd(2011)
X27 X28	Edinburgh - Bathgate	13	B5H/G3(2017){7} B9/G2sd(2011){6}

Forgot to add: vehicles snapshot taken 31/MAY/2023 between 1500 and 1600hrs.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I believe if all is to go well they were to purchase 997 at the end of its loan period. I believe that was why it has Lothian Interior.

I've heard the rumour of an order for 25 BZLs too, and that it's possible the BYDs would be returned/disposed of as they would very much be the 'odd ones out' amongst an all Volvo fleet.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I've heard the rumour of an order for 25 BZLs too, and that it's possible the BYDs would be returned/disposed of as they would very much be the 'odd ones out' amongst an all Volvo fleet.

At least someone else heard that and I'm not only defending myself! Of course it may not be 100% accurate.

 

[A330Alex]

Lothian’s whole digital strategy is quite frustrating. It’s such an asset for a company to have a really good digital experience. Even disregarding the passenger benefits, having direct access to users through your own app is very powerful. Yet clearly they’re not interesting in investing pretty much anything in either the main app or the m-tickets app…

Probably sums it up that Edinburgh Trams feels the need to use their own, much better, m-tickets app.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Lothian’s whole digital strategy is quite frustrating. It’s such an asset for a company to have a really good digital experience. Even disregarding the passenger benefits, having direct access to users through your own app is very powerful. Yet clearly they’re not interesting in investing pretty much anything in either the main app or the m-tickets app…

Probably sums it up that Edinburgh Trams feels the need to use their own, much better, m-tickets app.

I believe everything is going ahead with the merger of Lothian and Edinburgh Trams? I think there's more integration coming including tap tap cap.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I believe everything is going ahead with the merger of Lothian and Edinburgh Trams? I think there's more integration coming including tap tap cap.

That includes the renaming of the trams to Lothian Trams with them being repainted into the Fleet of the Future livery!

This is a joke.

 

[cam22]

Is that true about the trams being renamed? If so it makes sense to have the buses and trams have the same name as it shows it’s one operator and if they plan to go to Dalkeith in the future Lothian would be the better name.

 

[90019]

At least someone else heard that and I'm not only defending myself! Of course it may not be 100% accurate.

I was told the plan is 25 to be ordered this year with another order of 25 to follow next year.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Is that true about the trams being renamed? If so it makes sense to have the buses and trams have the same name as it shows it’s one operator and if they plan to go to Dalkeith in the future Lothian would be the better name.

It was a joke, hence the smiley face, sorry for not clarifying.

I was told the plan is 25 to be ordered this year with another order of 25 to follow next year.

I was only told about 25 this year, although that's good if so!

 

[Blindtraveler]

If the BYDs are leased then it won't be difficult to offload them and I'm sure there'd be a good second-hand use for them. Any Glasgow operator I'm sure would jump at the opportunity given the low emissions enforcement over there now.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

If the byd are least then it won't be difficult to offload them and I'm sure there'd be a good second-hand use for them, any Glasgow operator I'm sure we're jump at the opportunity given the low emissions so enforcement over there now

They won't be sold any time soon.

 

[CraigLockhart]

I see on the Lothian Buses Facebook they have named the charity bus Gus. I would attach a picture but that is way beyond me

 

[Graeme Duncan]

I have noticed that 1051-1062 are not on the Lothian Buses system this morning.

 

[eh1]

I have noticed that 1051-1062 are not on the Lothian Buses system this morning.

Believe they're away for prep now, perhaps for ECB.

I saw one of the Central 66 plate B5s yesterday, freshly painted, was this 441? Was driving and didn't get to check. Looked really smart!

 

[Bus9120UK]

Believe they're away for prep now, perhaps for ECB.

I saw one of the Central 66 plate B5s yesterday, freshly painted, was this 441? Was driving and didn't get to check. Looked really smart!

Yes it's 441 - it does look smart though I feel the reduction in gold again doesn't look too good on the Gemini 3 body. 443 is away now and as is 1051 - indeed the latter being for East Coast Buses.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Yes it's 441 - it does look smart though I feel the reduction in gold again doesn't look too good on the Gemini 3 body.

I disagree - I like the reduction of the gold as it looks better and there's more of a contrast. I also think it looks better without the hook. I like the fact that you can see the madder more too.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I disagree - I like the reduction of the gold as it looks better and there's more of a contrast. I also think it looks better without the hook. I like the fact that you can see the madder more too.

In my opinion there is so little gold now though. It used to be a prominent part of the Lothian livery but now you could remove it and most wouldn't notice at all. I of course appreciate that this change wasn't made for look but to save resources, but I do think it just looks so plain now and only reveals more white which many argue there is too much of. I agree the removal of the hook was a good choice (again even though it was really to save resources) as it made the panels look a lot cleaner, but the remaining gold still stood out. The updated style looks best directly from the side.

Edit - for those interested in the differences: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-bus-and-east-coast-buses.208948/post-6039714 & https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-bus-and-east-coast-buses.208948/post-6039714 are useful.

 

[317 forever]

Very useful list thanks @computerSaysNo

 

[cammyeaston]

Yes it's 441 - it does look smart though I feel the reduction in gold again doesn't look too good on the Gemini 3 body. 443 is away now and as is 1051 - indeed the latter being for East Coast Buses.

Can we expect 1051-1062 to come back as 519-530 or are they to retain their original numbers?

 

[danielhogg2005]

I've been in Bonnyrigg, Dalkeith, Eskbank and Danderhall today on routes 31, 46, 48 and 140 and I've noticed that none of the bus stops have had their timetables updated.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Can we expect 1051-1062 to come back as 519-530 or are they to retain their original numbers?

Probably 1051-1062. If they were renumbered that would mean renumbering 511-518 again, which is not happening.

I've been in Bonnyrigg, Dalkeith, Eskbank and Danderhall today on routes 31, 46, 48 and 140 and I've noticed that none of the bus stops have had their timetables updated.

Lots of places are still to be updated, expect them to be done soon.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Probably 1051-1062. If they were renumbered that would mean renumbering 511-518 again, which is not happening.

How so? I do think they'll stay the same but them being out of order should they be changed isn't the end of the world.

 

[stevenedin]

Can we expect 1051-1062 to come back as 519-530 or are they to retain their original numbers?

Unless there is a network wide plan to revert to up to 3 digit fleet numbers, I doubt that they will change. 20001-20008 were renumbered as they didn’t fit into the standard numbering system.

 

[paul47B]

I've been in Bonnyrigg, Dalkeith, Eskbank and Danderhall today on routes 31, 46, 48 and 140 and I've noticed that none of the bus stops have had their timetables updated.

Ladywood loop is the same. Bus stops still say 47 goes to Granton Harbour. One of the bus stops still has the Munroes of Jedburgh timetable! How long have they been away? Lothian still don't have paper timetables

 

[Jordan1296]

I've been in Bonnyrigg, Dalkeith, Eskbank and Danderhall today on routes 31, 46, 48 and 140 and I've noticed that none of the bus stops have had their timetables updated.

Much the same as the rest of the south of the city. Haven’t been into the city centre since the changes, but even as far “north” as Cameron Toll hasn’t been updated.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Daytime Bus Allocations Since Service Change Mon-Fri (No Express except LC/ECB)!

This doesn't mean every allocation of the route, this means the frequent/most used ones

Number	Main Allocation(s)
Service 1	Volvo 7900H
Service 2	Volvo 7900H
Service 3	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 4	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 5	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 7	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 8	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 9	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 10	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 11	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 12	Volvo 7900H, Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 14	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 15	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 16	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 19	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 21	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 22	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 23	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 24	Enviro 400 EV, Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 25	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 26	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 27	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 29	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 30	MCV Evora (B8RLE)
Service 31	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 33	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 34	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 35	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 36	Volvo 7900H
Service 37	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 38	MCV Evora (B8RLE)
Service 43	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 44	Enviro 400 MMC (B5TL)
Service 45	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 46	Wright Eclipse 2 (B7RLE), Volvo 7900H
Service 47	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 47B	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service 48	Wright Eclipse 2 (B7RLE), Volvo 7900H
Service 49	Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL), Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 100	Enviro 400 XLB (B8L)
Service 106	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service 113	Any ECB Decker
Service 124	Any ECB Decker
Service 139	Any ECB Decker
Service 140	Any ECB Decker
Service 141	Any ECB Decker
Service 200	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service 400	Wright Gemini 3 (B5TL)
Service X5	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service X6	Any ECB Decker
Service X7	Wright Eclipse 3 (B8RLE)
Service X18	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service X27	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)
Service X28	Wright Gemini 3 (B5LH), Wright Gemini 2 (B9TL)