Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[stevenedin]

Its not really when the Hybrid Gemini 3s are on it doing a lower speed on the motorway than what most of the B9s can achieve

I agree on those hybrids. I don’t like them. I prefer the B9TLs.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I agree on those hybrids. I don’t like them. I prefer the B9TLs.

I really like them - but they should be prioritized on the 43 and 72 with minimal appearances (or none) on the X27/8 or X40. One is on the X40 today. Hopefully as 846-850 join and possibly some 09s these occurrences are less frequent.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Its not really when the Hybrid Gemini 3s are on it doing a lower speed on the motorway than what most of the B9s can achieve

Any idea why Lothian have limited their B5LHs to such a low top speed? The ones at Stagecoach East Scotland reach and sit at 50mph comfortably

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Any idea why Lothian have limited their B5LHs to such a low top speed? The ones at Stagecoach East Scotland reach and sit at 50mph comfortably

I suspect it’s got something to do with the fact these were new for the Skylinks which are generally stop-start routes. Ideally they need retuned.

 

[stevenedin]

I really like them - but they should be prioritized on the 43 and 72 with minimal appearances (or none) on the X27/8 or X40. One is on the X40 today. Hopefully as 846-850 join and possibly some 09s these occurrences are less frequent.

Has it been confirmed that 847-850 and 926-935 are rejoining the fleet and moving to Lothian Country?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Has it been confirmed that 847-850 and 926-935 are rejoining the fleet and moving to Lothian Country?

850 has been photographed with frames added and Lothian Country branding put on. It isn't confirmed what the plan is with 926-936 but 936 has moved to Seafield and is understood to be losing it's East Coast Buses branding while 933 which was sat outside yesterday has gained a nearside fleet number - not that this means anything.

 

[stevenedin]

850 has been photographed with frames added and Lothian Country branding put on. It isn't confirmed what the plan is with 926-936 but 936 has moved to Seafield and is understood to be losing it's East Coast Buses branding while 933 which was sat outside yesterday has gained a nearside fleet number - not that this means anything.

Thanks, interesting to hear about 936 moving away from East Coast Buses.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I suspect it’s got something to do with the fact these were new for the Skylinks which are generally stop-start routes. Ideally they need retuned.

Yeah they need retuned definitely

I really like them - but they should be prioritized on the 43 and 72 with minimal appearances (or none) on the X27/8 or X40. One is on the X40 today. Hopefully as 846-850 join and possibly some 09s these occurrences are less frequent.

For a mostly high speed A Road, dual carriageway route it would be ideal to have the best performing B9TLs allocated to it, preferably with limiters removed.

 

[Theproinsider]

Yeah they need retuned definitely

For a mostly high speed A Road, dual carriageway route it would be ideal to have the best performing B9TLs allocated to it, preferably with limiters removed.

Limiters removed? You know that's an MOT fail, and PG9 prohibition.

 

[overthewater]

Limiters removed? You know that's an MOT fail, and PG9 prohibition.

What they mean is allow the bus to operate at 53mph instead of the current 40mph.

 

[Theproinsider]

What they mean is allow the bus to operate at 53mph instead of the current 40mph.

Again, this is set at time of manufacture, to alter would render the bus an MOT failure and result in a PG9 prohibition.

 

[318266]

Again, this is set at time of manufacture, to alter would render the bus an MOT failure and result in a PG9 prohibition.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't some ex-London buses specifically modified to allow for "country running" with higher speed limits than in the cities?

Frankly the hybrids should be reserved for city work, and swapped with an equal number of B5TL MMCs of which would be better suited.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't some ex-London buses specifically modified to allow for "country running" with higher speed limits than in the cities?

Frankly the hybrids should be reserved for city work, and swapped with an equal number of B5TL MMCs of which would be better suited.

Weren’t the ex London’s gearboxes retuned rather than the limiters touched?

Not sure I agree with you on the city use idea. The B5LH seems to operate better when it stops less, ironically.

 

[318266]

Weren’t the ex London’s gearboxes retuned rather than the limiters touched?

I'm not specifically referring to Lothian by that, as Lothian (city)'s probably go as fast as London's did!

 

[Theproinsider]

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't some ex-London buses specifically modified to allow for "country running" with higher speed limits than in the cities?

Frankly the hybrids should be reserved for city work, and swapped with an equal number of B5TL MMCs of which would be better suited.

Yes, you're wrong. The gearbox was remapped.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Again, this is set at time of manufacture, to alter would render the bus an MOT failure and result in a PG9 prohibition.

Except for 1050 none of the ex London B9TLs I've driven have been restricted to 40mph (or is it 38 in London?) - I believe they've had their limiters increased to 80kph.

When I started Cardiff Bus the incumbent MD specified that the Scania N49UD deckers were limited to 40 (except for two with tachos) - after he resigned the other 11 had their speed limiters altered to 100kph by Scania.

In my first job I took a B10M to Volvo with a faulty speed limiter (stuck at 38mph) - they removed the limiter while awaiting parts - are you sure this actually renders a PCV unroadworthy?

 

[Nawm8]

Except for 1050 none of the ex London B9TLs I've driven have been restricted to 40mph (or is it 38 in London?) - I believe they've had their limiters increased to 80kph.

When I started Cardiff Bus the incumbent MD specified that the Scania N49UD deckers were limited to 40 (except for two with tachos) - after he resigned the other 11 had their speed limiters altered to 100kph by Scania.

In my first job I took a B10M to Volvo with a faulty speed limiter (stuck at 38mph) - they removed the limiter while awaiting parts - are you sure this actually renders a PCV unroadworthy?

Yes, under the construction and use regs. Exceptions are if it fails mid-journey and only to complete journey, and to travel to a place where limiters can be set or repaired.

 

[Theproinsider]

Except for 1050 none of the ex London B9TLs I've driven have been restricted to 40mph (or is it 38 in London?) - I believe they've had their limiters increased to 80kph.

When I started Cardiff Bus the incumbent MD specified that the Scania N49UD deckers were limited to 40 (except for two with tachos) - after he resigned the other 11 had their speed limiters altered to 100kph by Scania.

In my first job I took a B10M to Volvo with a faulty speed limiter (stuck at 38mph) - they removed the limiter while awaiting parts - are you sure this actually renders a PCV unroadworthy?

It's part of the first registration process. Yes, you can remove them, but if you make changes, this can only be done under extreme circumstances and the bus recertified. Removal or 'turning it off' will result in a PG9 and MOT failure, as well as action by the TC.

Buses at LB are calibrated for 50mph with coaches and the ECB B8's at 60mph.

 

[CN04NRJ]

It's part of the first registration process. Yes, you can remove them, but if you make changes, this can only be done under extreme circumstances and the bus recertified. Removal or 'turning it off' will result in a PG9 and MOT failure, as well as action by the TC.

Buses at LB are calibrated for 50mph with coaches and the ECB B8's at 60mph.

MCVs are all 57mph, and were from new. Unless some extreme circumstances occured in the last two years since I drove one and they're now 50.

What would extreme circumstances be categorised as? The Scanias I mentioned were definitely altered at a Scania dealership/workshop.

 

[LiviCrazy]

Genuine question, with the withdrawal of the Eastern Scottish X22 I’ve just started having to use the X27/X28 so downloaded the tracking app.

Why do Lothian have two separate apps, one for ticketing and one for tracking? That I’ve seen this is the only company that does that.

Can I also ask how they do their tracking as it always seems decidedly more vague than others? (looking at Bus Times for example it only seems to update position every few mins rather than every 30s like most of the others I’ve seen).

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Can I also ask how they do their tracking as it always seems decidedly more vague than others? (looking at Bus Times for example it only seems to update position every few mins rather than every 30s like most of the others I’ve seen).

It’s currently being swapped from a 2G system (yes really!) to I believe a 4G system. This should hopefully make it more robust. At the moment there is essentially an operating ‘square’ across the network and it doesn’t cover much of West Lothian, nor North Berwick, Haddington and Dunbar. So anything outside of these areas not fitted with a new AVL doesn’t track properly unless it is in service. Even then it’s not the best. If it’s not in service it will just straight line North to South track at the perimeter of this square.

If you want as accurate possible then use Visual Edinburgh’s website. I’m not quite sure how it manages it but the locations on them are almost bang on every 20-30 seconds. Sadly the straight line stuff above doesn’t stop and it’s not the best at tracking outside of the square, but it’s better than bustimes at it. Lastly I should add, if the tracker suddenly freezes, then bustimes will as well. By this I mean the departure boards work but there’s no live tracking. Visual Edinburgh doesn’t do this. I’m not sure how that happens but that’s when it really proves its use.

Essentially if you use a combination of all three sources (the app, bustimes and Visual Edinburgh) then you’ll get what you want almost certainly correct. I’ve only ever failed to find what I’m looking for a handful of times. One was last week actually but the AVL it turns out was completely broken. You’ll also learn what’s best for what type of thing you’re looking for as well. It sounds slightly odd but you get used to it.

Hope that helps.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Except for 1050 none of the ex London B9TLs I've driven have been restricted to 40mph (or is it 38 in London?) - I believe they've had their limiters increased to 80kph.

37MPH for all London buses i believe

 

[stantheman]

Does the X40 actually use the city bypass? Must be a nightmare. Can it operate in high winds?

 

[InOban]

Does the X40 actually use the city bypass? Must be a nightmare. Can it operate in high winds?

You will often meet Lothian deckers on the bypass, returning empty to Longstone

 

[ScotRail158725]

Does the X40 actually use the city bypass? Must be a nightmare. Can it operate in high winds?

Yes, Its only really a nightmare with congestion. And yes its only a bypass. As said above Lothian use it for empty moves to and from the depot all the time

 

[Lothian285]

Timetables are now available for the revised 72, 73 and 74:

72 timetable
73 timetable
74 timetable

 

[overthewater]

Timetables are now available for the revised 72, 73 and 74:

72 timetable
73 timetable
74 timetable

That new 72 Timetable is worse than what Horseburgh offered when it operated the awful 557 service, However I see they have put in some extra buses around 6.30am. Maybe they are watching the social media posts from passengers?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Timetables are now available for the revised 72, 73 and 74:

72 timetable
73 timetable
74 timetable

Looking at it, the 73 and 74 must be interlinking. A one minute layover at Livingston on the 73 wouldn't be sufficient.

 

[bobdoe]

That new 72 Timetable is worse than what Horseburgh offered when it operated the awful 557 service, However I see they have put in some extra buses around 6.30am. Maybe they are watching the social media posts from passengers?

Why do you think the 72 timetable is bad? Serving Pumpherston and Eliburn was always expected to take some extra minutes.

 

[overthewater]

Why do you think the 72 timetable is bad? Serving Pumpherston and Eliburn was always expected to take some extra minutes.

The whole point of route 72 even existing is to give a service to Livingston from Winchburgh, and the service has to cover its costs within 2 years. However unless the service is direct and fast, passengers are not going to make the switch and were be back to square one with nothing to show for it.