Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Lx008]

292 is currently headed West and is near Glasgow.

Under its own power?

 

[Blindtraveler]

292 is currently headed West and is near Glasgow.

Wonder where its off to

 

[Bus9120UK]

Under its own power?

Yes - if it was towed it wouldn't have been tracking. It went to Volvo Cardonald (having swapped for 7900 34) however I am unsure as to why that is.

 

[Numpt33]

Mind that it was fixed, and they displayed the correct termini names, but a few weeks ago the issue returned. This was at the same time as the conversion to timetabled times which will remain in the near future.

I think that means the "default" names are what's wrong, so any update will undo changes. Until they can fix this properly, it'll probably be a temporary fix.

 

[oldman]

I think that means the "default" names are what's wrong, so any update will undo changes. Until they can fix this properly, it'll probably be a temporary fix.

It was back to terminuses yesterday. The location names probably work OK for country services which usually show a town or village as destination but fall down in cities. I wonder how the system was specified.

The locations are also used in the Via: part of the display which produces some odd things where a route serves one stop on the edge of a district but doesn't go through it. The Elm Row stops are divided between Broughton on one side of the road and Hillside on the other! I don't suppose anyone normal notices.

 

[stevenedin]

It was back to terminuses yesterday. The location names probably work OK for country services which usually show a town or village as destination but fall down in cities. I wonder how the system was specified.

The locations are also used in the Via: part of the display which produces some odd things where a route serves one stop on the edge of a district but doesn't go through it. The Elm Row stops are divided between Broughton on one side of the road and Hillside on the other! I don't suppose anyone normal notices.

It is showing where it is technically. Elm Row is actually in Hillside, the other side is actually Gayfield Place in Broughton.

Also the 25 does go to Craigentinny despite it being on Restalrig Avenue, that isn’t actually in Restalrig.

 

[JKP]

It is showing where it is technically. Elm Row is actually in Hillside, the other side is actually Gayfield Place in Broughton.

Also the 25 does go to Craigentinny despite it being on Restalrig Avenue, that isn’t actually in Restalrig.

Correct. It is using the names from the National Gazetteer which is a UK wide document. I was looking at Bustimes tracking for the Borders Buses 253 and noticed that the bus stops in London Road show Hillside then the name of the stop. The system merely needs tweaking.

 

[Bus9120UK]

446 has returned from its repair at Ferrymill.

 

[ScotRail158725]

446 has returned from it's repair at Ferrymill.

With 616 back out this week that leaves just 415 and 652 at Ferrmyill?

 

[oldman]

Elm Row is actually in Hillside, the other side is actually Gayfield Place in Broughton.

Elm Row as a bus stop is actually Elm Row, whichever side of the road you are on.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Will X7 drivers get in trouble if they prevent people boarding in the city centre who are only going to Carlton Terrace, Abbeyhill, Meadowbank and Paisley Drive (i.e. in a nice way, and tell them to get a 44 instead which is every 12 minutes from the same stop) if they know that otherwise they'll be leaving passengers for Haddington and Dunbar behind who will have to wait half an hour for the next one?

 

[mb88]

Will X7 drivers get in trouble if they prevent people boarding in the city centre who are only going to Carlton Terrace, Abbeyhill, Meadowbank and Paisley Drive (i.e. in a nice way, and tell them to get a 44 instead which is every 12 minutes from the same stop) if they know that otherwise they'll be leaving passengers for Haddington and Dunbar behind who will have to wait half an hour for the next one?

In a word, yes. They can’t refuse anyone travel just on the basis of them travelling to a destination where there is an alternative, more frequent destination, even if it means leaving people behind.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Will X7 drivers get in trouble if they prevent people boarding in the city centre who are only going to Carlton Terrace, Abbeyhill, Meadowbank and Paisley Drive (i.e. in a nice way, and tell them to get a 44 instead which is every 12 minutes from the same stop) if they know that otherwise they'll be leaving passengers for Haddington and Dunbar behind who will have to wait half an hour for the next one?

Ideally it could be made pick up only inside the city centre, but as it stands drivers can't refuse travel to anyone for making short journeys.

 

[computerSaysNo]

In a word, yes. They can’t refuse anyone travel just on the basis of them travelling to a destination where there is an alternative, more frequent destination, even if it means leaving people behind.

Ideally it could be made pick up only inside the city centre, but as it stands drivers can't refuse travel to anyone for making short journeys.

hm, okay.
Yeah I agree, but I feel like if it was going to happen then it would have already happened by now.
Why was the peak decker journey removed from the X7? Was it replaced by an additional full route single deck journey?

 

[alexf380]

hm, okay.
Yeah I agree, but I feel like if it was going to happen then it would have already happened by now.
Why was the peak decker journey removed from the X7? Was it replaced by an additional full route single deck journey?

Frustrating though it is having a full bus leaving Waterloo Place or Abbey hill, to then be half empty by the time we get to Milton Link, turning people away is a no-no.
The decker duplicate was removed and not really replaced. There's the same number of journeys as before the dupe started but I think just spaced differently?

 

[R Scandle]

hm, okay.
Yeah I agree, but I feel like if it was going to happen then it would have already happened by now.
Why was the peak decker journey removed from the X7? Was it replaced by an additional full route single deck journey?

Yes. That is so. 1717 West Maitland Street to Dunbar (Asda).

 

[stevenedin]

1017 and tram 260 seem to have collided on Leith Walk.

 

[NorthClyde320]

With the new Lothian Country services starting tomorrow and Monday can additional journeys be introduced if resources are available or do they need to wait to register them? The reason I ask is I visited Livingston a few days ago and noticed how busy some of the Eastern Scottish journeys were on the 23 and 25 and even 2 of the 72 journeys leaving the Centre were 3/4's full and that was not including it's forthcoming rerouting. I definitely see and increase in frequencies for some areas next year if not sooner with the busy festive season approaching.

 

[roadierway77]

With the new Lothian Country services starting tomorrow and Monday can additional journeys be introduced if resources are available or do they need to wait to register them? The reason I ask is I visited Livingston a few days ago and noticed how busy some of the Eastern Scottish journeys were on the 23 and 25 and even 2 of the 72 journeys leaving the Centre were 3/4's full and that was not including it's forthcoming rerouting. I definitely see and increase in frequencies for some areas next year if not sooner with the busy festive season approaching.

I'd say frequency increases in West Lothian are likely in the future but it's important to remember that Eastern Scottish services were horribly unreliable, with sometimes two to three hour gaps between services scheduled to be half-hourly - thus it is possible that the services were busier as a result of passengers concentrating onto the few services that were actually operating. Plus, Lothian will be exclusively using double deckers in West Lothian for now. I do think Lothian have a good chance of running a successful local service in West Lothian now that McGill's is out of the picture - if they can operate services reliably, then hopefully patronage will grow, and if so, it's possible we may see some positive changes, but probably not before next spring/summer.

 

[Stan Drews]

I'd say frequency increases in West Lothian are likely in the future but it's important to remember that Eastern Scottish services were horribly unreliable, with sometimes two to three hour gaps between services scheduled to be half-hourly - thus it is possible that the services were busier as a result of passengers concentrating onto the few services that were actually operating. Plus, Lothian will be exclusively using double deckers in West Lothian for now. I do think Lothian have a good chance of running a successful local service in West Lothian now that McGill's is out of the picture - if they can operate services reliably, then hopefully patronage will grow, and if so, it's possible we may see some positive changes, but probably not before next spring/summer.

Since the significant pay rise that Lothian Country gave to drivers, they should have no problem providing a reliable service. It will come down to how revenue measures up against those additional costs, but hopefully they will stick around in the ‘new’ areas, now that the competition has gone.

 

[overthewater]

Since the significant pay rise that Lothian Country gave to drivers, they should have no problem providing a reliable service. It will come down to how revenue measures up against those additional costs, but hopefully they will stick around in the ‘new’ areas, now that the competition has gone.

I don't have much faith of great service improvements. No one seems to have noticed the service cuts in Mid Lothian since 2016.

I bet Lothian will try and get more people to use X27/X28 from Bathgate to Livingston.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I don't have much faith of great service improvements. No one seems to have noticed the service cuts in Mid Lothian since 2016.

I bet Lothian will try and get more people to use X27/X28 from Bathgate to Livingston.

When the 73 is far more direct? Not sure why you're so negative.

 

[overthewater]

Because the network has somehow been created by a wizard. It's awful and makes no logical sense for the passengers. Lothian has got what it wanted but no one is better.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Because the network has somehow has been crated by a wizard. It's awful and makes no logical sense for the passengers. Lothian has got what it wanted but no one is better.

What were you expecting with the tight resources? They can't create a perfect local network out of nowhere! All this network has ensured is that communities are not left without a bus service, whilst increasing PVR as little as possible.. It mindblows me hearing what some of the expectations were. Yet just over a year ago they cancelled their local services due to driver shortages with buses cancelled for hours at a time. At least they put in the thought to have the 72 operating to Fauldhouse to allow connections to Bathgate, when they could've terminated it at Whitburn and forced customers to travel to Livingston just to get to Bathgate. I don't really get this idea of Lothian 'wanting' West Lothian. To me it looks like they didn't expect this. They've got the last 72 to Fauldhouse coming an X28 running dead from Bathgate to utilize that resource.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

To me it looks like they didn't expect this.

And if this was the case, they have had a great crack at this (what I assume temporary) network. They can't serve everywhere at the moment. The wizards have had a good crack at the network, it's not perfect but with the tight resources they have done a good job.

 

[overthewater]

I don't really get this idea of Lothian 'wanting' West Lothian.

Then why did they start all that competition.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Then why did they start all that competition.

That was Richard Hall and his management, wasn't it?

 

[stevenedin]

What were you expecting with the tight resources? They can't create a perfect local network out of nowhere! All this network has ensured is that communities are not left without a bus service, whilst increasing PVR as little as possible.. It mindblows me hearing what some of the expectations were. Yet just over a year ago they cancelled their local services due to driver shortages with buses cancelled for hours at a time. At least they put in the thought to have the 72 operating to Fauldhouse to allow connections to Bathgate, when they could've terminated it at Whitburn and forced customers to travel to Livingston just to get to Bathgate. I don't really get this idea of Lothian 'wanting' West Lothian. To me it looks like they didn't expect this. They've got the last 72 to Fauldhouse coming an X28 running dead from Bathgate to utilize that resource.

The 72 doesn’t go to Bathgate.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Looks like the 72 is being allocated 571-590.

The 72 doesn’t go to Bathgate.

He means allow connections with the 73 or X18 instead of going to Livingston for a connection.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Hefty delays on 573 on the 72 this morning, I'm told it's very busy so likely nowhere near enough time allocated for boarding passengers.