Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[scosutsut]

The only reason I've ever been able to come up with myself for this is maybe they want to leave space between the numbers of different batches and eliminate the possibility of batches being numbered in a different series which could be used for a future order of vehicles. For example the last batch of Tridents Lothian ordered were originally numbered all the way up to 705 I think? Which where then renumbered and the 700-800 series went to the Wrightbus Volvos

Maybe so that when they fill up the fleet, they can buy a batch of 4 singles numbered 99-100 and 199-200 then a batch of 15 deckers (299-300, 399-400, 499-500, 599-600, 699-700, 799-800, 899-900 and 999) and nicely fill up the gaps. (I'm joking, they very likely won't) - but mind you this isn't all that new, 599 and 600 were left out when they bought the tridents, however later 629 and 630 were given those numbers as part of all the renumberings. Having some wee gaps could com in useful in the future who knows.

My only personal theory was them calling Volvo/ADL and latterly Volvo/MCV saying "I'd like to order 98 please" hoping they'd go "well a press release saying Lothian order 100" will look great so have 2 more on us but it's not worked

 

[overthewater]

Which proves the point even further, to be honest I'm not sure why the new X6 is getting re-routed via Fort Kinnard anyway, if it's to trial run and see if there is demand to move one of the express services from Milton Link then fair enough.

Odd thing is I highly doubt all those standing passengers on the X7 are going to the Big Asda at the The Jewel. It makes me wonder if it would be better if they ran it via Fort kinnard.

Refers to LRT - no doubt Dunsbus can tell us how many years it is since they ran the buses.

Just to ask isn't the route the 26 does to Tranent been in operation since the days of regulation, stayed even everything else was cut back in the 90s. Heck Even when bus war restarted all they did was extend the 15 out to Haddington?

 

[stevenedin]

Just to ask isn't the route the 26 does to Tranent been in operation since the days of regulation, stayed even everything else was cut back in the 90s. Heck Even when bus war restarted all they did was extend the 15 out to Haddington?

I'm sure I remember that the 15 used to go to Tranent at one point. I'm not sure if this was before or as well as the 26 going there.

 

[Acfb]

I'm sure I remember that the 15 used to go to Tranent at one point. I'm not sure if this was before or as well as the 26 going there.

The 15 used to terminate at Stoneybank in the 90s. I think this was immediately before it was extended to Haddington. The 15 was then curtailed back to Tranent in July 2002 when the bus war was ended.

They then played about with the eastern terminus - Eastfield, Stoneybank, Levenhall then Meadowmill before it was curtailed back to Waterloo Place.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

The 15 used to terminate at Stoneybank in the 90s. I think this was immediately before it was extended to Haddington. The 15 was then curtailed back to Tranent in July 2002 when the bus war was ended.

They then played about with the eastern terminus - Eastfield, Stoneybank, Levenhall then Meadowmill before it was curtailed back to Waterloo Place.

It also terminated at Queen Margaret Uni till 2012 when the 45 replaced it, the 15 is a route that keeps on changing constantly, it's like they don't know what to do with it, but it's conflicting, I think the best moment they had was when it ran out Meadowmill - Pencuik, untill the 124 effectively duplicated the route up till Lothian Road making it pointless.

Maybe they should extend the 15 up to Wallyford or Meadowmill again and retain the link between Portobello and the rest of East Lothian.

 

[stevenedin]

It also terminated at Queen Margaret Uni till 2012 when the 45 replaced it, the 15 is a route that keeps on changing constantly, it's like they don't know what to do with it, but it's conflicting, I think the best moment they had was when it ran out Meadowmill - Pencuik, untill the 124 effectively duplicated the route up till Lothian Road making it pointless.

Maybe they should extend the 15 up to Wallyford or Meadowmill again and retain the link between Portobello and the rest of East Lothian.

There was also the 15A Penicuik to St Andrew Square Sunday service.

I get the feeling that they are trying to move away from operating Lothian services to East Lothian but maybe they will operate a journey using East Coast Buses.

 

[CSB0241]

You’d hope with fleet renewal the batch of East Coast deckers with numbers in the 10XX series could be moved into the 500s alongside the rest of the batch - the registration plates randomly go across both

1051-1062 could so easily become 519-530, if they ever choose to change the fleet numbers of the 1XXXs then I’d be mind boggled if they didn’t do that. 1000-1050 could also maybe be 300-350.

 

[overthewater]

Heading back to 2002 period does anyone else remember when the 12 used to operate to The Jewal Asda and it was every 10mins?. Of course does anyone remember the old 17: That was an odd service that only ever operate every 30min from Granton.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

There was also the 15A Penicuik to St Andrew Square Sunday service.

I get the feeling that they are trying to move away from operating Lothian services to East Lothian but maybe they will operate a journey using East Coast Buses.

I also remember an N15 running during summer weekends about 2011 as well. Think it was QMU to Hyvots Bank.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

get the feeling that they are trying to move away from operating Lothian services to East Lothian but maybe they will operate a journey using East Coast Buses.

If East Coast had a bigger capacity for all the vehicles, then I could see them doing this, and cutting back all the Lothian City routes to Eastfield, Fort Kinnaird, The Jewel etc..

I also remember an N15 running during summer weekends about 2011 as well. Think it was QMU to Hyvots Bank.

I do remember that, it was in 2013, so weird as it ran the 5 route via Mount castle and Milton Road, very interesting route choice, felt like a fever dream.

Heading back to 2002 period does anyone else remember when the 12 used to operate to The Jewal Asda and it was every 10mins?. Of course does anyone remember the old 17: That was an odd service that only ever operate every 30min from Granton.

I do recall seeing that on the Way back Machine ages ago, it ran via Seafield towards Portobello, couldn't even imagine them bringing that route back.

 

[overthewater]

That a good shout:

I had forgotten they put an peak express to Haddington in 2001: Lothian adventure into East Lothian was very short lived, it seems the passengers did NOT make the switch.

16th August 2001

Bus Service Changes from 19 August 2001

Services 15 & X76 will serve Macmerry, Gladsmuir & Haddington
Service 45 will serve Inveresk Village & Whitecraig
Revised Services in Dalkeith, Mayfield, Newtongrange & Gorebridge
Services 34 & 35 will serve Riccarton & Heriot Watt University
Service 58 will be renumbered 18
New Timetable Guides for the following services are now available from our Hanover Street and Waverley Bridge Travelshops: 3, 15, 18, 29/29A, 34, 35, 45, X76

Bus Network improvements from 27 January 2002 BUS CHANGES TO COINCIDE WITH OPENING OF NEW INFIRMARY

27 January 2002 will see minor alterations to bus services in Edinburgh and the Lothians.
Some of the alterations have been made to serve the new Royal Infirmary at Little France. Four services (8, 24, 33 and 49) will together provide a bus every 4 minutes during the day between the City Centre and the new RIE. The 8, 24 and 38 will be extended from their existing terminals and the 32/52 will be re-routed.

Other changes are designed to improve the overall reliability of our services. These alterations are part of our network regeneration which in turn provides the vast majority of people in Edinburgh and the surrounding areas with an effective and easy to use public transport system.

New service 40 between the City Centre and Whitecraig operating every 30 minutes during the day replaces the eastern section of the 45 service. Service X78 has also been reintroduced, following passenger requests, to provide commuters with a through service between Penicuik and Crewe Toll.

Pilmar Smith, chairman of Lothian Buses:
”Much has been said and written about transport issues relating to the new Infirmary, and Lothian Buses are totally committed to provide as comprehensive a service as possible for staff, visitors and out patients. These changes represent the first steps of our provision to improve services for the new hospital and as further phases of the hospital open we will undoubtedly make more improvements to our services.“

A summary of the alterations is as follows:
8 - Extended to operate to the new Royal Infirmary. A bus every 15 minutes daytime.
10 - More buses to Bonaly replacing service 16 in this area.
15 - More and later buses to Haddington.
16 - No longer serves Bonaly but replaced by service 10.
18 - Minor timetable alterations to improve reliability.
19/19a - Minor timetable alterations to improve reliability.
24 - Extended to serve new Royal Infirmary providing a bus every 30 minutes at most times. Route altered to serve east end of Princes Street.
29/29a - Minor timetable alterations.
32/52 - Revised route to the new Royal Infirmary via Old Dalkeith Road and Moredun. This circular service provides a vital link to residents living on the outskirts to the new Royal Infirmary.
37/37a - Minor timetable alterations to improve reliability.
38 - Extended beyond Crewe Toll to Muirhouse in the north and from beyond Cameron Toll to the new Royal Infirmary.
40 - NEW SERVICE. Replaces eastern section of the 45 route between the City Centre and Whitecraig. Also operates loop within Fort Kinnaird shopping complex.
44/44a - Minor timetable alterations.
45 - Route change with the eastern section now operating via Willowbrae to Brunstane.
49 - Route change. Now operating via Minto Street and Lady Road.
X76 - Now terminates at Tranent instead of Haddington.

BUS SERVICE CHANGES
from 14 July 2002


On Sunday 14 July 2002 we’ll be making some changes and improvements to your bus services.
As well as simplifying timetables and renumbering some services, we’ve streamlined Midlothian bus services. But one of the biggest changes we’ve made is to our revised Night Bus network – its first major improvement for over 10 years!

Full details for these service changes will be available from our Hanover Street and Waverley Bridge Travelshops during the week leading up to 14 July. You can also call our Enquiry Line on 0131 555 6363.
We welcome your comments and suggestions – drop us a line at Lothian Buses plc, Annandale Street, Edinburgh, EH7 4AZ, or email us at [email protected].

ROUTE & TIMETABLE Changes
2, 3, 12, 14, 15, 19/19A, 20, 29/29A/X29, 30, 32/52*, 34, 36, 37/37A, 40, 41, 42

MINOR Timetable Changes
11, 18, 22, 23, 26, 28, 31, 35, 38, X66*, X76*, X77*, X78*

*Service Number Changes
Old New
52 32A
X66 X26
X74 X44
X76 X15
X77 X47
X78 X37

15 Terminates in Tranent.

more buses via Fort Kinnaird.

3/3A Every 10 minutes between Clovenstone and Mayfield – 3A continues to Gorebridge.

19/19A All buses run as 19 via Charlotte Sq and Dean Bridge.

29/29A Revised route via Stockbridge. All buses run as 29 via Hardengreen Tesco and A7.

36 Extended from West End to Bridges, Mayfield Road, Liberton, Burdiehouse, Loanhead, Roslin and Auchendinny.

37/37A All Ladywood buses run as 37A. Buses every 10 minutes to Penicuik (every 20 minutes Sunday). Roslin, Auchendinny and Easter Bush now served by revised 36.

X29, 52, X66, X74, X76, X77, X78 renumbered.

NEW Night Bus NETWORK, starts 0015, 15 July 2002

BUS SERVICE CHANGES
from 15 September 2002


As a result of the closure of Horse Wynd for the construction of the Scottish Parliament, service 30 can no longer operate & will be withdrawn.

A replacement service 64 running every 30 mins daytime & evenings will start on 15 September, running between Dynamic Earth & St. Andrew Square via St. Mary's St, Jeffrey St, Market St & Waverley Bridge.

Minor timetable changes will also be made to service 40.

Information for services 40 & 64 will be available from 9 September.

BIG July 2003 not kept/listed!

BUS SERVICE CHANGES
from 27 October 2002
Minor Timetable Changes
• 4,15, 25, X26, X31, 34, 35, 41/42, 44/44A/X44
Saturday Frequency Changes
• 32/32A - bus every 30mins Saturday
• 19, 21 - bus every 20mins Saturday daytime
• 7, 8, 10, 27, 33 - bus every 15mins Saturday daytime
• 3/3A - bus every 12mins Saturday daytime Wester Hailes - Mayfield
Other Timetable Changes
• 26 - Monday to Saturday daytime
• X15 - renumbered X44. Runs between Tranent & Haymarket.
• 40 - Saturday service withdrawn
SEE INDIVIDUAL LEAFLETS FOR FULL DETAILS - AVAILABLE 21 OCTOBER
from 13 October 2002

Due to Midlothian Council's cancellation of bus contracts, 36 will cease to operate between City Centre & Straiton, Loanhead, Roslin & Auchendinny.
From 13 October, 36 will run between Charlotte Square & Ocean Terminal only. (Route in Leith changes to run via Henderson Street & The Shore).
Revised 37/37A will replace 36 between City Centre & Loanhead.
Ladywood buses will run as 37 via Loanhead with certain trips serving Bush Estate.

Service Changes from 26 January 2003

3 Additional early journeys from Birkenside on Saturdays and Sundays
plus Sunday timetable changes

25 Minor Sunday timetable alterations

29 Minor Monday to Friday timetable alterations

X31 Route changed to run to/from Haymarket instead of Crewe Toll.
Consequent timetable changes

49 Journeys to/from Stoneybank are extended to Musselburgh Grammar School
Minor timetable alterations and extra journeys to Musselburgh, providing links to New Royal Infirmary

64 Off peak service (Mon to Fri & Sat) extended from city centre via London Road to Holyrood Palace
Evening & Sunday service will be withdrawn

Changes to your local buses from 16 March 2003

Timetable & Route Changes
15 - Extended from Fairmilehead to Penicuik. Runs every 30 mins from Fairmilehead to Penicuik Centre, hourly via Bush and Auchendinny and hourly via Roslin. Supported by Midlothian Council.

25 - Sunday daytime buses run between Riccarton and Leith Street. Also timetable changes.

49 - Extended hourly to Rosewell via Dalkeith, Eskbank, Bonnyrigg and Polton. New evening and Sunday journeys run hourly between Leith Street and Rosewell

Minor Timetable Changes
36, 37/37A, 42, X47

Extension to Service 44 From 1 August 2004: evening & Sunday Service 44 journeys will extend from Wallyford to Tranent, Ormiston & Pencaitland.

 

[stevenedin]

That a good shout:

I had forgotten they put an peak express to Haddington in 2001: Lothian adventure into East Lothian was very short lived, it seems the passengers did NOT make the switch.

Thanks for posting this. Interesting to know and I'm surprised that the 36 went all the way out to Midlothian as well at one point.

 

[Acfb]

Thanks for posting this. Interesting to know and I'm surprised that the 36 went all the way out to Midlothian as well at one point.

I have a really clear recollection of the April and July 2002 changes. I didn't know the 36 to Roslin was subsidised though. I thought it was cut back to do with threatened strikes in the autumn etc and Lothian needing to make savings for that reason.

 

[DunsBus]

The 15 used to terminate at Stoneybank in the 90s. I think this was immediately before it was extended to Haddington. The 15 was then curtailed back to Tranent in July 2002 when the bus war was ended.

They then played about with the eastern terminus - Eastfield, Stoneybank, Levenhall then Meadowmill before it was curtailed back to Waterloo Place.

15 was extended to Tranent in the August 2000 service change. This was a year ahead of the (short-lived) extension to Haddington.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

15 was extended to Tranent in the August 2000 service change. This was a year ahead of the (short-lived) extension to Haddington.

So the 15 stayed in Tranent untill 2009 I believe? probably the longest it's stayed in one area before being reshuffled around.

 

[paul0762]

I suppose it will still be considered rumoured until it's publicly announced but Willie Hamilton (Operations director for Lothian) confirmed on the Omnibus society tour of Central depot that an order for a 2nd batch of 48 BZL's had been placed

If they do order a 2nd batch of bzls I hope they are better build quality, on 737 today and just noisy with rattles from Perspex screen and panels. Yet some of the 300s that are probably at 600k miles are still the best

 

[DunsBus]

So the 15 stayed in Tranent untill 2009 I believe? probably the longest it's stayed in one area before being reshuffled around.

Yes - it was cut back to Eastfield at the January 2009 service change.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Is this 48 in addition to the initial run of 100 or indeed 98 as the case seems to be? I should imagine that ordering more means that they've had some fairly Frank exchanges of views with the manufacturers about quality. Or perhaps they no longer care? No news on anything for airlink?

 

[Acfb]

The times don't match up, the 113 arrives Wallyford at xx17 and xx47 during the day and the X4 leaves at xx15 and xx45 (going west).


Actually, in the off-peak going west, the 113 and X4 both take 47 minutes to go from Tranent High Street to Waterloo Place and are timed to give a service every 15 minutes. I haven't check journey time differences in the peak, or heading eastbound. I also don't know how this compares with the current 113 and X6 timetables but I'll check later if I get time.

It is a bit of a mess really. Tranent probably needs a proper 'express' bus TBH (i.e. not even going through Wallyford),more than Wallyford or Prestonpans. I would also make the 124 and 113 proper limited stop between Abbeyhill and Eastfield to help sort things out as the 44 is already a frequent stopping service for Willowbrae/Milton Road.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It is a bit of a mess really. Tranent probably needs a proper 'express' bus TBH (i.e. not even going through Wallyford),more than Wallyford or Prestonpans. I would also make the 124 and 113 proper limited stop between Abbeyhill and Eastfield to help sort things out as the 44 is already a frequent stopping service for Willowbrae/Milton Road.

It shouldn't take much time from travelling from Tranent into Wallyford, the X6 was fine for years doing this, so no idea what they are playing at now with the X4.

How is the 113/124 not a proper limited stop service, it's only 4 stops between Abbeyhill and Brunstane, and after it hits Edinburgh College it's only a few minutes away from Musselburgh anyway, I would just leave them as it is, and besides, what if residents in East Lothian need to get off at Willowbrae or Meadowbank House for whatever reason?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

How is the 113/124 not a proper limited stop service, it's only 4 stops between Abbeyhill and Brunstane, and after it hits Edinburgh College it's only a few minutes away from Musselburgh anyway, I would just leave them as it is, and besides, what if residents in East Lothian need to get off at Willowbrae or Meadowbank House for whatever reason?

I both agree and disagree with this. The 113 and 124 both should be non stop from the College to the Ship Inn in addition to what is already missed. Those last few stops at the end of Milton Road East are really not key stops. The existing stops served on the limited stop section though are must keeps.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

Regarding the alterations of Service 26 eastbound would it not reasonable to suggest that Clerwood-Seton Sands should remain 26
and the that Clerwood-Tranent be renumbered 28.

 

[overthewater]

Thinking about the Top end of Prestonpans wouldn't it be easy to just divert a bus every 20mins Down Haddington road up B1361, then down West Loan then off to Seton Sands?

 

[NorthEastern]

Just had a look at the new network maps on Lothian’s website. I may be mistaken but didn’t the previous versions have the local rail stations marked? Apart from Waverley and Haymarket they’re not shown now. I would have thought that info would have been helpful, it wouldn’t really add much extra ‘clutter’.

 

[317 forever]

The 15 used to terminate at Stoneybank in the 90s. I think this was immediately before it was extended to Haddington. The 15 was then curtailed back to Tranent in July 2002 when the bus war was ended.

They then played about with the eastern terminus - Eastfield, Stoneybank, Levenhall then Meadowmill before it was curtailed back to Waterloo Place.

I remembering riding route 15 to Haddington on Easter Saturday, March 30th that year

 

[Lothianbus703]

905 has ventured on to the 45 today

 

[DunsBus]

905 has ventured on to the 45 today

Replaced 1028 which had croaked leaving Marine garage.

 

[buslad1988]

Interesting… the 38 and 400 clearly aren’t the money earners some people think! Both requiring subsidy from the council.

Two loss-making but 'vital' Edinburgh bus routes set to be subsidised by the council

The bus routes provide important connectivity across the south of the city, but do not make enough money from fares to cover the cost of their own operations

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

 

[Bus9120UK]

Interesting… the 38 and 400 clearly aren’t the money earners some people think! Both requiring subsidy from the council.

Two loss-making but 'vital' Edinburgh bus routes set to be subsidised by the council

The bus routes provide important connectivity across the south of the city, but do not make enough money from fares to cover the cost of their own operations

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

They have had subsidy for years! Historically, many trips on the 18 were council tenders, with only peak trips being commercial. Subsidy was paused but should be returning. The title gives the false impression that this is them being funded for the first time.

From the article itself:

For several years, the council has subsidised the routes, but according to a council report the subsidies were paused in July 2023 for council officers to study the routes and seek legal advice on the funding.

Interestingly, I remember that it was stated that some of the budget towards the supported services in Edinburgh last year was already being allocated for these services, and as a result they had insufficient budget for provision of a Ratho to Edinburgh service, but evidently not.

 

[overthewater]

Does no one remember when First operated the No18 off peak?