Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[GusB]

A little reminder about using jargon: "G1" and "G2" are, as far as I'm aware, Glasgow postal districts. If you intended these codes to be used to describe something else, you must define them as required by forum rules. Thank you

 

[mb88]

826, 827, 828 and 830 all seem to be in use with Lothian Country just now on various services, according to LVF.

I'm led to believe this is to allow exhaust modifications to take place on the ex-London B9s. I had 826 yesterday on the X18, kidding on I was proper Lothian driver

 

[gavin1985]

Thanks for the responses folks

Have to admit it is the main reason why I choose the Tram or a Lothian Country bus over a Lothian bus, purely because there are far fewer stops especially on the Tram. Whereas a Lothian Country bus, it does indeed have more in the city, but still much fewer than a Lothian bus.
One thing I can always remember is journey time to West End from Sighthill area, is shocking on a 25, compared to the X27/X28, or even a short walk to Bankhead and getting on the tram.

 

[computerSaysNo]

926 and 927 would be a possibility but it depends where the fleet is needed by then and they themselves probably aren’t that far from withdrawal.

I've always wondered why 926 and 927 existed, as they are two isolated 2009 Gemini 2 vehicles, immediately following from 49 2008 Gemini (1) vehicles in the numbering system.
One theory I had was that the numbers 926 and 927 could have been used as overflow from the 301-350 2009 batch, but then at that point the 2011 Gemini 2s didn't exist so why were 926 and 927 not just given numbers 351 and 352? The other thing is that if they were given numbers 926/927 as overflow then why are they currently at Longstone and separated from the rest of the 2009 batch, which is currently at Marine?
I also wondered the same about the 2011 Gemini 2s numbered 951-960, why are these separated numerically from the rest of the 2011 Gemini 2 batch which are numbered 351-400?

Just some idle thoughts while I'm putting off doing more studying!

 

[ScotRail158725]

I've always wondered why 926 and 927 existed, as they are two isolated 2009 Gemini 2 vehicles, immediately following from 49 2008 Gemini (1) vehicles in the numbering system.
One theory I had was that the numbers 926 and 927 could have been used as overflow from the 301-350 2009 batch, but then at that point the 2011 Gemini 2s didn't exist so why were 926 and 927 not just given numbers 351 and 352? The other thing is that if they were given numbers 926/927 as overflow then why are they currently at Longstone and separated from the rest of the 2009 batch, which is currently at Marine?
I also wondered the same about the 2011 Gemini 2s numbered 951-960, why are these separated numerically from the rest of the 2011 Gemini 2 batch which are numbered 351-400?

Just some idle thoughts while I'm putting off doing more studying!

Are you forgetting 928-936 exist? 926-936 are and all were in the same batch based at Longston until 2015 when they were all sent to Central and 29 branded. In 2017 928-936 were pht in Lothian country livery and 926/927 remained in normal city livery as they werent needed at LC. 926/927 arent “overspill numbers” thats just how that whole batch were numbered when new

 

[computerSaysNo]

Are you forgetting 928-936 exist? 926-936 are and all were in the same batch based at Longston until 2015 when they were all sent to Central and 29 branded. In 2017 928-936 were pht in Lothian country livery and 926/927 remained in normal city livery as they werent needed at LC. 926/927 arent “overspill numbers” thats just how that whole batch were numbered when new

Ah, thanks, yes I forgot about 928-936.
Why are they all numbered as 9xx though, and not 3xx like the rest of the Gemini 2s?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Thanks for the responses folks

Have to admit it is the main reason why I choose the Tram or a Lothian Country bus over a Lothian bus, purely because there are far fewer stops especially on the Tram. Whereas a Lothian Country bus, it does indeed have more in the city, but still much fewer than a Lothian bus.
One thing I can always remember is journey time to West End from Sighthill area, is shocking on a 25, compared to the X27/X28, or even a short walk to Bankhead and getting on the tram.

I get you, I’m the exact same, I will always wait for a LCB bus rather than a Lothian bus when heading to Sighthill or Corstorphine Mainly because it will only take me 10-15 minutes on the bus rather than half an hour.

im the same with ECB with both the 113/124 for Willowbrae/Portobello and Musselburgh, I know they aren’t limited stop services but they are faster

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Thanks for the responses folks

Have to admit it is the main reason why I choose the Tram or a Lothian Country bus over a Lothian bus, purely because there are far fewer stops especially on the Tram. Whereas a Lothian Country bus, it does indeed have more in the city, but still much fewer than a Lothian bus.
One thing I can always remember is journey time to West End from Sighthill area, is shocking on a 25, compared to the X27/X28, or even a short walk to Bankhead and getting on the tram.

I used to go to the college up at Sighthill and I’d always get the X27/X28 to or from the city, mainly because I was always guaranteed a seat and it was usually way quicker. The tram usually meant standing.

I've always wondered why 926 and 927 existed, as they are two isolated 2009 Gemini 2 vehicles, immediately following from 49 2008 Gemini (1) vehicles in the numbering system.
One theory I had was that the numbers 926 and 927 could have been used as overflow from the 301-350 2009 batch, but then at that point the 2011 Gemini 2s didn't exist so why were 926 and 927 not just given numbers 351 and 352? The other thing is that if they were given numbers 926/927 as overflow then why are they currently at Longstone and separated from the rest of the 2009 batch, which is currently at Marine?
I also wondered the same about the 2011 Gemini 2s numbered 951-960, why are these separated numerically from the rest of the 2011 Gemini 2 batch which are numbered 351-400?

Just some idle thoughts while I'm putting off doing more studying!

926-936 as mentioned were a batch new in standard harlequin at Longstone which were later painted into standard swoop. They were given these numbers I presume as a follow on to the 08 plate B9TL’s (up to 925) were also at Longstone. In 2015 (I think) they were given orange tops for the 29 and moved to Central which recently converted to Double Deck Operation at the time, in 2017 the brandings were all in process of being phased out and a new 43 service was beginning so a decision was made to repaint 928-936 for the new Lothiancountry brand. 926-927 had partial repaints to remove the orange tops and were moved back to Longstone.

20937-20941, 942 and 20943-20950 were new as Airlink’s (as 937-950) so that’s likely why these were given numbers in this range, similarly with 951-960 which had Morningside Maisie branding when new, 399 and 400 gained the brand in 2012 after the 5 was increased to every 12 minutes.

301-325 were new to Marine with 26 Connect branding, 326-350 to Longstone with 22 Connect branding. 326-329 were later moved to Marine as additional vehicles to be used on the 26. 330-350 remained at Longstone.

Then you have 351-400 which were standard livery. I’m pretty sure all of the Wright built full diesel Double decks just carried on from 400 after that.


The numbers right now probably don’t make total sense but they did when they were new and in a practical sense they’re just numbers, renumbering loads of buses doesn’t just mean swapping the stickers, it would mean needing to change loads of other pieces of paperwork, possibly master lists for insurance use etc, staff may also need to be informed - not sure all of this is correct just my thoughts though.

 

[Graham Alexand]

20937-20941, 942 and 20943-20950 were new as Airlink’s (as 937-950).

I heard these were all supposed to be transferred to new LothianCountry in West Lothian due to the ADL order is there any truth to that?

(I know it isn't going to happen for the time being due to the ADL order being postponed)

 

[CN04NRJ]

I heard these were all supposed to be transferred to new LothianCountry in West Lothian due to the ADL order is there any truth to that?

(I know it isn't going to happen for the time being due to the ADL order being postponed)

The ADL order isn't postponed, it's just delayed due to covid.

 

[scosutsut]

I heard these were all supposed to be transferred to new LothianCountry in West Lothian due to the ADL order is there any truth to that?

Can't see it personally, there was lengthy discussion previously that they've had a harder life than most of their similarly aged siblings (with Airlink originally and latterly with ECB) think they'll see out their days where they are.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Can't see it personally, there was lengthy discussion previously that they've had a harder life than most of their similarly aged siblings (with Airlink originally and latterly with ECB) think they'll see out their days where they are.

Okay, thank you, I was asking due to this photo on Flickr by Jim Left which shows an EastCoastBuses B9TL in NEW LothianCountry Livery (SN10 DKO).

V Link Below V

East Coast Buses - SN10 DKO - 20942

Shown here is Lothian Buses (East Coast Buses) 20942 (SN10 DKO). 20942 was new as 942 to Lothian Buses for Airlink. After use with Airlink in 2015, it and the rest of its batch (937-950) were then heavily refurbished and seconded to Lothian Country Buses. Lothian Country Buses became East Coast...

www.flickr.com

 

[Bus9120UK]

Okay, thank you, I was asking due to this photo on Flickr by Jim Left which shows an EastCoastBuses B9TL in NEW LothianCountry Livery (SN10 DKO).

V Link Below V

East Coast Buses - SN10 DKO - 20942

Shown here is Lothian Buses (East Coast Buses) 20942 (SN10 DKO). 20942 was new as 942 to Lothian Buses for Airlink. After use with Airlink in 2015, it and the rest of its batch (937-950) were then heavily refurbished and seconded to Lothian Country Buses. Lothian Country Buses became East Coast...

www.flickr.com

It was originally meant to happen but ended up not happening, that bus is 942, now in service in ECB livery.

 

[OmniCity999]

Okay, thank you, I was asking due to this photo on Flickr by Jim Left which shows an EastCoastBuses B9TL in NEW LothianCountry Livery (SN10 DKO).

V Link Below V

East Coast Buses - SN10 DKO - 20942

Shown here is Lothian Buses (East Coast Buses) 20942 (SN10 DKO). 20942 was new as 942 to Lothian Buses for Airlink. After use with Airlink in 2015, it and the rest of its batch (937-950) were then heavily refurbished and seconded to Lothian Country Buses. Lothian Country Buses became East Coast...

www.flickr.com

the way that reads to me is that is no longer happening.

I'd be inclined to agree.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

I get you, I’m the exact same, I will always wait for a LCB bus rather than a Lothian bus when heading to Sighthill or Corstorphine Mainly because it will only take me 10-15 minutes on the bus rather than half an hour.

im the same with ECB with both the 113/124 for Willowbrae/Portobello and Musselburgh, I know they aren’t limited stop services but they are faster

I noticed that 1141-1153 have been operating on service 2 in recent weeks. Is Lothian buses operating a joint service between Longstone and Marine on Service 2.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I noticed that 1141-1153 have been operating on service 2 in recent weeks. Is Lothian buses operating a joint service between Longstone and Marine on Service 2.

This is correct, around 1/3 - 1/2 of the 2's are currently being operated by Marine.

 

[Tartan shorts]

I see it's been reported police are increasingly patrols in Wester Hailes due to anti social behaviour and damage to buses over the last few weeks. Has it been that bad or is it the usual exaggeration and sensationalism?

 

[CN04NRJ]

I see it's been reported police are increasingly patrols in Wester Hailes due to anti social behaviour and damage to buses over the last few weeks. Has it been that bad or is it the usual exaggeration and sensationalism?

Yes, it's been that bad. Personal experience and aware of other incidents.

 

[Tartan shorts]

Yes, it's been that bad. Personal experience and aware of other incidents.

Sorry to hear that. Never a pleasant experience to be sitting ducks in a lot of ways. Often think with Wester Hailes being a recurring hotspot for trouble and the associated costs in repairing damage and potential for driver / passenger injuries Lothian should take a hardline with regards to withdrawing services.

I know it's punishing all for the actions of a few but sometimes a drastic approach is required. At least the police seem to be getting their fingers out but they can't monitor it constantly.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I myself (not in Wester Hailes) have seen loads of youths in groups (of more than the current restrictions permit) causing hassle for both drivers and passengers.

A common example at the minute seems to be groups of youths boarding buses as if they are not a group, driver then noticing it when they sit down and telling them to get off. And then abuse etc towards drivers along with using the emergency door buttons to prevent the bus from leaving again.

Stones and eggs unfortunately more common as well, something that has far more serious consequences.

 

[Daniel Connor]

I see it's been reported police are increasingly patrols in Wester Hailes due to anti social behaviour and damage to buses over the last few weeks. Has it been that bad or is it the usual exaggeration and sensationalism

Unfortunately it's been that bad and it's not just Wester Hailes that's been a problem area for us. This week alone I've had bricks and eggs thrown at my bus and the engine compartment opened twice in Niddrie and had lasers shone in my eyes going through Newcraighall Village on Thursday night. Personally I can't see anything changing until someone is seriously injured or worse.

 

[Tartan shorts]

Unfortunately it's been that bad and it's not just Wester Hailes that's been a problem area for us. This week alone I've had bricks and eggs thrown at my bus and the engine compartment opened twice in Niddrie and had lasers shone in my eyes going through Newcraighall Village on Thursday night. Personally I can't see anything changing until someone is seriously injured or worse.

Unfortunately these things do seem to happen in spates and it's the same handful of areas. I still remember sitting on the 14 one night years ago, reading the paper after a late shift at work. Bus was on Boswell Parkway and there was an almighty bang as the window in front of where I was sitting got put in. Honestly terrified as I wasn't paying attention so completely caught off guard. If it'd been the window behind at the very least I'd have been showered in glass, potentially worse. These idiots don't realise their actions can cause life changing injuries to someone as well as potentially PTSD or similar.

Even with all the cameras on buses now the chances of catching them are slim and if they do get caught the slap on the wrist is no deterrent.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Was there an incident around 4:50pm on a Lothian or in any of the Lothian subsidiaries, I heard something on the intercom couldn't make out what it was completely but when I was getting off a bus (276) I heard some sort of incident happened.

All I could make out was...

" On the lower Deck 184"

If anyone can make anything out of this, is this in connection to the Wester Hails incident or something different.
Thanks .

 

[Bus9120UK]

Was there an incident around 4:50pm on a Lothian or in any of the Lothian subsidiaries, I heard something on the intercom couldn't make out what it was completely but when I was getting off a bus (276) I heard some sort of incident happened.

All I could make out was...

" On the lower Deck 184"

If anyone can make anything out of this, is this in connection to the Wester Hails incident or something different.
Thanks .

Not sure, since this bus left service at 9pm, and you got off around 4:50

 

[Graham Alexand]

Not sure, since this bus left service at 9pm, and you got off around 4:50

Ok, thank you, the small part I heard on the intercom it sounded like something happened around that time.

 

[Voyager lad]

I too have noticed a real increase in antisocial behaviour on Lothian. I was travelling a fair bit for essential purposes just before Christmas and I learnt the hard way to never sit upstairs. Youths (some look little over 12!!) on the top deck drinking alcohol, no masks, lobbing bottles at passengers. Worryingly I found this on all routes, not just the ones serving the known trouble areas. Hotspots I found were in Eskbank/Dalkeith and Gogar (Skylink routes). But it was still an issue on every route I went on

 

[Stan Drews]

I too have noticed a real increase in antisocial behaviour on Lothian. I was travelling a fair bit for essential purposes just before Christmas and I learnt the hard way to never sit upstairs. Youths (some look little over 12!!) on the top deck drinking alcohol, no masks, lobbing bottles at passengers. Worryingly I found this on all routes, not just the ones serving the known trouble areas. Hotspots I found were in Eskbank/Dalkeith and Gogar (Skylink routes). But it was still an issue on every route I went on.

Can’t wait till they can do it all for free!

 

[route101]

I too have noticed a real increase in antisocial behaviour on Lothian. I was travelling a fair bit for essential purposes just before Christmas and I learnt the hard way to never sit upstairs. Youths (some look little over 12!!) on the top deck drinking alcohol, no masks, lobbing bottles at passengers. Worryingly I found this on all routes, not just the ones serving the known trouble areas. Hotspots I found were in Eskbank/Dalkeith and Gogar (Skylink routes). But it was still an issue on every route I went on

Never had any bad experiences in Edinburgh, only Glasgow, I'm sure it happens. Yes, hate when that happens your upstairs and a group comes on, you cant move and they become restless.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I have noticed there is only one 7900 in service today (Bus 4 on the 12).

Never had any bad experiences in Edinburgh, only Glasgow, I'm sure it happens. Yes, hate when that happens your upstairs and a group comes on, you cant move and they become restless.

The teens are usual, especially in the Gorgie area. They get on, sit upstairs at the back and start shouting, sometimes banging windows and sticking middle fingers to people outside (or sticking middle fingers at buses). It's honestly disgraceful.

 

[Graham Alexand]

Never had any bad experiences in Edinburgh, only Glasgow, I'm sure it happens. Yes, hate when that happens your upstairs and a group comes on, you cant move and they become restless.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like this would be a big problem in Edinburgh but a few times I've been on a bus in West Lothian and stones have been thrown at the bus, emergency doors getting messed about and failed attempts to assult a bus driver.

It must be a horrible job being a bus driver having to deal with that so consistently.