Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[stevenedin]

They seem to be changing to a standard fleet numbering system which makes sense in my opinion. 20001-8 will need new fleet numbers possible 511-518?

 

[Falcon1200]

As far as I know Lothian don’t issue tickets to holders of free travel NEC’s. I believe you would only need to state your destination if it was a zoned service such as Lothiancountry.

Thanks for the info.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Quick question, are East Coast Buses losing their 5 digit fleetnumbers for ones in the normal sequence??? 10051-3 are still showing as such on bustimes, but the rest seem to be showing as 54-65....

Thanks

This is one of the many problems with Bustimes. It’s like Wikipedia, anyone can edit it at any time provided they have an account. If they haven’t been renumbered it’s possible somebody has just jumped to premature conclusions and edited them.

They are likely going into the 51-65 region but I’m not sure any of them have been renumbered yet as none have been repainted - 10052/3 appear to be getting done just now. 10051 appears to be VOR at Newbridge as well with 10054-10065 still available for service/in service.

As for 20937-20950 as far as I know only 940-943, 946-947 have been renumbered. 942 is still in the original Green and Grey minus the second hooked decal though (it returned like this after it’s rebuild) with the only other 5 having been repainted from that group.

591-594 are the only others in the new livery at ECB and I’m pretty sure 181 is still the sole one in West Lothian to carry the new livery.

 

[Busman757]

Forgive me if these have been answered earlier here, but I have a couple of queries regarding use on Lothian Buses of the Scotland Over-60s National Entitlement Card (NEC), which I used for a journey in Edinburgh yesterday;

Is it necessary to state one's destination, as I believe a flat fare exists here for the NEC ?
Is a ticket issued ? I went to take one from the machine but the Driver just waved me on board !

Thanks in advance.

As Q400 has stated, Lothian, LothianCountry and EastCoast don’t issue tickets for NEC. As LothianCountry and EastCoast operate a Zonal fare system, you have to state your destination to the driver.

 

[Graeme Duncan]

Regarding renumbering vehicles would it be practical for 1051-1062 to be renumbered 519-530.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Regarding renumbering vehicles would it be practical for 1051-1062 to be renumbered 519-530.

If they were going to be renumbered (which I highly doubt will ever happen) 511-522 would be most logical due to reg plate order, these begin at SJ18 NFA (1051) and end at SJ18 NFO (1062). 20001-20008 could then take 523-530, these begin at SJ18 NFP (20001) and end at SJ18 NFZ (20008) - although 20007 carries SG68 LBU. I think it was originally meant to be SJ18 NFY but was delayed, I’m sure someone may know if this is true.

Numerically this would make more sense but ultimately a number is a number.

511-518 has been suggested for 20001-20008 (probably as nobody expects 1051-1062 to be renumbered), but it really could be anything.

 

[computerSaysNo]

What a disaster
https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2022/01/city-centre-diversions-from-15-january-2022/



Easter Bush information

Amended timetables for travel to/from Easter Bush Campus - Lothian Buses

Lothian will operate amended timetables on Services 15 and 47B from Monday 10 January on weekdays through until Friday 21 January to assist those travelling to and from Easter Bush Campus. Timetables for both services can be found below: Service 15 Service 47B As we continue to feel the impact...

www.lothianbuses.com

Here is my map showing bus stops in Edinburgh city centre. It has been updated and is valid from the service change on the 15th of January 2022.
GitHub - 40414148/Lothian_Published <https://github.com/40414148/Lothian_Published>
To see the map, click the link above, click the file "Edinburgh City Centre current 2022-01-15_1.pdf", click Download, click Open, then zoom in.
Note that the background map has been rotated such that Princes Street is perfectly horizontal, for easier reading.
All the stops on the map should be accurate.
If you find any errors on the map then please let me know.

 

[Falcon1200]

As Q400 has stated, Lothian, LothianCountry and EastCoast don’t issue tickets for NEC. As LothianCountry and EastCoast operate a Zonal fare system, you have to state your destination to the driver.

Thanks again.

 

[mb88]

As Q400 has stated, Lothian, LothianCountry and EastCoast don’t issue tickets for NEC. As LothianCountry and EastCoast operate a Zonal fare system, you have to state your destination to the driver.

Wish this was more widely known. Would save us getting looked at like we’ve got two heads when we ask concession and Ridacard holders to state their destination.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Regarding renumbering vehicles would it be practical for 1051-1062 to be renumbered 519-530.

no reason to renumber the city fleet. if anything in the fleet will recieve whole new number it would be 20001-20008

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Wish this was more widely known. Would save us getting looked at like we’ve got two heads when we ask concession and Ridacard holders to state their destination.

I used to travel all the time on the X27/8 to my college classes at Sighthill and the amount of people that I used to see that didn’t state the destination was crazy. Sometimes I’d see the same people on consecutive days and still not pick up an anything. It just wastes time.

I can to a certain extent understand why people that travel for free feel as if they don’t need to state their destination, as in their head it’s free regardless why do I need to bother? If only they knew how the system actually works.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Forgive me if these have been answered earlier here, but I have a couple of queries regarding use on Lothian Buses of the Scotland Over-60s National Entitlement Card (NEC), which I used for a journey in Edinburgh yesterday;

Is it necessary to state one's destination, as I believe a flat fare exists here for the NEC ?
Is a ticket issued ? I went to take one from the machine but the Driver just waved me on board !

Thanks in advance.

In addition to Lothian Country and East Coast I reckon Skylink buses are the same. Pretty sure I receive a ticket for short journeys when paying by tapping a bank card so NEC is probably the same. Basically you can only get away without stating your destination or waiting for a ticket on the red bus (lothian City) routes.

Wish this was more widely known. Would save us getting looked at like we’ve got two heads when we ask concession and Ridacard holders to state their destination.

Yep - I second that as a passenger waiting for tickets being issued to a line of people who don't know the convention. For concessions and bank cards you could issue the maximum fare ticket to anyone who gets stroppy about revealing where they're going.

 

[mb88]

Yep - I second that as a passenger waiting for tickets being issued to a line of people who don't know the convention. For concessions and bank cards you could issue the maximum fare ticket to anyone who gets stroppy about revealing where they're going.

Indeed. People getting on and paying with contactless are the same. They often seem puzzled and sometimes afronted by the question ‘where are you travelling to?’ I’m sure they wouldn’t be best pleased if they got charged £4.80 for a journey to Sighthill or Corstorphine from the city centre! Slightly different with the Ridacards but we do have to check people aren’t travelling outwith the city and city west zones. Although I do know some Country drivers don’t bother, which only causes problems for the next driver when said passenger attempts to board in Livingston for their return journey to Edinburgh.

 

[Busman757]

Wish this was more widely known. Would save us getting looked at like we’ve got two heads when we ask concession and Ridacard holders to state their destination.

Your not wrong. Specially on the 43!

 

[Falcon1200]

I can to a certain extent understand why people that travel for free feel as if they don’t need to state their destination, as in their head it’s free regardless why do I need to bother? If only they knew how the system actually works.

And that is the problem; Using my NEC in Glasgow I have to state my destination, and receive a ticket, but (as I now know) in Edinburgh, mostly, I don't ! Would it not be simpler to adopt one system throughout Scotland ?

 

[stevenedin]

I feel like there should be one system. If you get on the 113 from Granton up to the city centre the ticket machine beeps when you place your ridacard on it but they don’t ask if you are going to East Lothian past Tranent. On Lothiancountry it’s different. Also the ridacard discount is confusing and some drivers don’t know what to do. I have been charged more going to both North Berwick and Livingston before due to the driver not knowing what to do. It would be better if they just gave you say a 15% discount on all fares on the whole Lothian network having a ridacard outwith the city zones.

 

[Siemens Trains]

And that is the problem; Using my NEC in Glasgow I have to state my destination, and receive a ticket, but (as I now know) in Edinburgh, mostly, I don't ! Would it not be simpler to adopt one system throughout Scotland ?

I always try to tell the driver where I'm going these days regardless of whether it's necessary for issuing the ticket or not. It's an extra check in case the service is diverted, part route or you misread the bus number. In the days of limited stop routes I wished more passengers would do it rather than grumbling about being carried a mile past their intended stop.
Maybe another example is the northbound X37 which splits off the conventional 37 route at Crewe Toll and heads towards Granton instead of Silverknowes.

 

[Baileygirl]

And that is the problem; Using my NEC in Glasgow I have to state my destination, and receive a ticket, but (as I now know) in Edinburgh, mostly, I don't ! Would it not be simpler to adopt one system throughout Scotland ?

I've used my nec card on the Lothian County a few times for short journeys stating my destination. As you don't get a ticket you don't know what the driver has put in the machine and could be putting the whole journey in, therefore claiming more for the journey. I've had government inspectors on other operators checking tickets to see that the driver is not cheating the system. How can they do this on Lothian companies.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I feel like there should be one system. If you get on the 113 from Granton up to the city centre the ticket machine beeps when you place your ridacard on it but they don’t ask if you are going to East Lothian past Tranent. On Lothiancountry it’s different. Also the ridacard discount is confusing and some drivers don’t know what to do. I have been charged more going to both North Berwick and Livingston before due to the driver not knowing what to do. It would be better if they just gave you say a 15% discount on all fares on the whole Lothian network having a ridacard outwith the city zones.

ECB machines just accept it anywhere whereas LC have to validate it manually.

If you’re on ECB and pop the ridacard on the machine it will just accept it with no driver intervention needed regardless of where you are, you then pay any additional fare separately.

On Lothiancountry you pop the ridacard on and the driver manually selects validate and then the relevant zone you’re travelling to. I believe the machine then knows what to charge in excess if applicable and it’s all done in one go.

Two sister companies with completely different systems. The Lothiancountry system is better in my opinion but is ultimately slower, which to be fair is mostly down to some passengers not knowing what to do.

I always state where I’m going on a Ridacard unless I’m within the City zone on Lothiancountry and heading towards the city centre. To me it is then obvious what is happening as it defaults to one button anyway. I’m the same on ECB if it’s Zone B or west city bound.

 

[stevenedin]

Thanks that makes sense now. I guess it doesn’t help that the city fare is chargavle in a large part of East Lothian whereas the city zone fares stop before West Lothian at the west side.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I always state where I’m going on a Ridacard unless I’m within the City zone on Lothiancountry and heading towards the city centre.

Do you make a similar exception for Lothian Country service 43 heading away from the city centre? There should be no excess charge for any destination as the route is entirely City or CityWest zones.

 

[mb88]

Do you make a similar exception for Lothian Country service 43 heading away from the city centre? There should be no excess charge for any destination as the route is entirely City or CityWest zones.

Ridacards automatically register on the Wayfarer on the 43 service, in the same way they do on city services so no need for anyone to state their destination on that particular run.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Do you make a similar exception for Lothian Country service 43 heading away from the city centre? There should be no excess charge for any destination as the route is entirely City or CityWest zones.

I forgot to mention (but thankfully @mb88 mentioned it) that it was also similar to the ECB system - almost certainly as it’s valid anywhere on that route. In that case yes I would not state my destination as as you said there’s no excess charge.

EDIT 18th Jan.

A Lothian vehicle has caught fire on the A720 this morning, hope driver is ok.

 

[DunsBus]

One of 401-425 has caught fire on the City Bypass between Millerhill and Sheriffhall:

Huge blaze engulfs Edinburgh bus as bypass closes to traffic

The large fire has caused a large section of the Edinburgh City Bypass (A720) to be closed heading westbound after flames broke out on Tuesday morning.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

A huge bus fire has broken out on the Edinburgh City Bypass after emergency services rushed to the blaze.

The Edinburgh A720 has been closed from Old Craighall heading westbound after the Lothian Bus became engulfed in flames on Tuesday morning.

Images from the scene have shown huge flames covering the back of the double decker vehicle, with thick black smoke billowing out over the dual carriageway.

Long tailbacks stretching from the scene have also been seen, with traffic held a significant distance back from the bus by the emergency services.

Police are currently at the scene along with emergency fire crews, who began working to extinguish the flames at around 10.30am.

It is unclear if any injuries have occurred as a result of the fire.

I forgot to mention (but thankfully @mb88 mentioned it) that it was also similar to the ECB system - almost certainly as it’s valid anywhere on that route. In that case yes I would not state my destination as as you said there’s no excess charge.

EDIT 18th Jan.

A Lothian vehicle has caught fire on the A720 this morning, hope driver is ok.

No injuries, thankfully.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

One of 401-425 has caught fire on the City Bypass between Millerhill and Sheriffhall:

Huge blaze engulfs Edinburgh bus as bypass closes to traffic

The large fire has caused a large section of the Edinburgh City Bypass (A720) to be closed heading westbound after flames broke out on Tuesday morning.

www.edinburghlive.co.uk

No injuries, thankfully.

Thankful that the driver does appear to be ok.

Bus involved looks like 486 to me.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Thankful that the driver does appear to be ok.

Bus involved looks like 486 to me.

doubt it was 486. 407 appears to be at Seafield but some of 420-425 aren't tracking.

Glad it was travelling empty/light and there were no injuries, but must have been unpleasant for all involved.

 

[alexf380]

doubt it was 486. 407 appears to be at Seafield but some of 420-425 aren't tracking.

Glad it was travelling empty/light and there were no injuries, but must have been unpleasant for all involved.

In the picture in the article linked you can just make out a band of colour below the top deck windows. I think 486 may be the culprit.

Obviously though, that's not important and all that matters is that the driver was ok.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

In the picture in the article linked you can just make out a band of colour below the top deck windows. I think 486 may be the culprit.

Obviously though, that's not important and all that matters is that the driver was ok.

Definitely, whatever bus it is I’m sure will come in the coming days. But the most important thing is all involved appear to be ok.

 

[alexf380]

Having just had a look through twitter I've seen a much closer shot of the bus and it's one of 401-425. Not sure how to link tweets to the forum but searching "Edinburgh bus fire" it's one of the recent news articles.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Bus involved looks like 486 to me.

It can't be 486 as the bus involved has the earlier Gemini 3 bodywork. It has to be one of 401-425 as mentioned above.