Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Willie622]

Does anyone know what the Lothian buses service change are in September 11 2022?

 

[Sussexscot]

I can remember that version of the no.18, which started out as a replacement for a tram route (from Newington to Waverley via The Meadows, Tollcross and Lothian Road) that was withdrawn in 1950.

I'm too young to remember the 18 tram but I do remember one day getting off a tram (with my mother) at the west end of Strathearn Place, the tram departing and suddenly stopping again. I then noticed another tram at the east end also stationary on the single line section. I was taken home so I do not know how they sorted out that little conundrum. I can also remember travelling with my father on a 13 tram going over the lifting bridge over the Water of Leith and the enormous crashing noise when the wheels went over the gaps. Those were the days!

 

[Mal]

Can anyone tell me which stops on North Bridge do the following use? The 3. 7, 8, 29, 31 37 and 49 to Cameron Toll. Many thanks in advance.

 

[InOban]

I'm too young to remember the 18 tram but I do remember one day getting off a tram (with my mother) at the west end of Strathearn Place, the tram departing and suddenly stopping again. I then noticed another tram at the east end also stationary on the single line section. I was taken home so I do not know how they sorted out that little conundrum. I can also remember travelling with my father on a 13 tram going over the lifting bridge over the Water of Leith and the enormous crashing noise when the wheels went over the gaps. Those were the days!

I moved to Edinburgh 6 months before the last tram, and used to get the tram which went along Strathearn Place, I remember a foggy morning when the trams couldn't run because they couldn't see along the length of the single track section.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Can anyone tell me which stops on North Bridge do the following use? The 3. 7, 8, 29, 31 37 and 49 to Cameron Toll. Many thanks in advance.

Except for the 49 these buses do not stop on North Bridge, this is due to the ongoing works. As far as I remember the 49 stops pretty much outside the Hilton Carlton Hotel, it’s maybe moved slightly but it’s roughly there.

The remaining buses all stop on South Bridge, along with the 49. All of the buses you mentioned stop at the first stop on South Bridge except for the 7, 31 and 37 which stop at the second stop.

 

[InOban]

It has always annoyed me when, in normal times, there are three bus stops on the North Bridge that the routes seem to be randomly allocated. I'm also heading towards Cameron Toll, and I have to watch the buses appearing at the East End and try to get to the right stop in time.

 

[Mal]

Except for the 49 these buses do not stop on North Bridge, this is due to the ongoing works. As far as I remember the 49 stops pretty much outside the Hilton Carlton Hotel, it’s maybe moved slightly but it’s roughly there.

The remaining buses all stop on South Bridge, along with the 49. All of the buses you mentioned stop at the first stop on South Bridge except for the 7, 31 and 37 which stop at the second stop.

Much appreciated. I'll let my sister know as she is from Gloucester and having a few days in Edinburgh at Cameron Toll Travelodge. With all the roadworks in the city, I'd lost track of what stops were used.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I wouldn't imagine that any of the general public know that. Fair enough, they probably don't care, but it's a little hint that might make people think "oh so the local buses are all low-emission, I might make a slight effort to use them instead of driving every once in a while". Even if that takes 0.1% of cars off the road, it's got to be a good thing.

I've seen comments from the public and on twitter asking things along the lines of why are Lothian using old non compliant buses etc (as euro 6 is generally thought as 2015 onwards). Joe Public probably doesn't realise they can be upgraded.

They're appearing on the deckers too, as per my pic (I've no idea why but the forum is formatting it sideways)

 

[Darklord8899]

Any one now what the Lothian buses service change are in September 11 2022

Hang on, let me get my crystal ball

But seriously, not sure if anyone will be allowed to say yet or indeed how far in advance they are told.

Not the first time I've been in a job and the people outside the company knew things before the employees were told...

 

[Edirim]

It has always annoyed me when, in normal times, there are three bus stops on the North Bridge that the routes seem to be randomly allocated. I'm also heading towards Cameron Toll, and I have to watch the buses appearing at the East End and try to get to the right stop in time.

Based on their routes after Cameron toll...frequent enough to just wait at any of the stops without worrying for a short journey like that tbh

 

[Willie622]

Hang on, let me get my crystal ball

But seriously, not sure if anyone will be allowed to say yet or indeed how far in advance they are told.

Not the first time I've been in a job and the people outside the company knew things before the employees were told...

Thanks wait until mid August to find out and what about the service 20/63/68 are lothian buses taking them back on

 

[EdinRH]

Thanks wait until mid August to find out and what about the service 20/63/68 are lothian buses taking them back on

Did Lothian ever run the 68? They did do some services serving Turnhouse Road years ago. I have a route map from 1993 somewhere (which I cannot find at present), but IIRC the Turnhouse services were the 31 (selected journeys only) and the 48 (possibly a variation with a letter suffix, rather than the main 48). I recall going for a walk along the River Almond in 2009, returning via Turnhouse Road and seeing a number of bus stops with no service details on the flags nor any timetable information. I guess these services ceased when the Turnhouse RAF base closed in 1996. By 2012, a company called Waverley was operating a Turnhouse Road service (possibly the 68).

On a similar note, I noticed a bus stop at the South Gyle houses in 2019 which had no service details either on the flag or in the timetable holder in the shelter. Would this stop date from prior to the opening of the Gyle Centre and Edinburgh Park, would anyone know?

 

[mb88]

Thanks wait until mid August to find out and what about the service 20/63/68 are lothian buses taking them back on

No one can possibly know until the contracts are awarded.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Did Lothian ever run the 68? They did do some services serving Turnhouse Road years ago. I have a route map from 1993 somewhere (which I cannot find at present), but IIRC the Turnhouse services were the 31 (selected journeys only) and the 48 (possibly a variation with a letter suffix, rather than the main 48). I recall going for a walk along the River Almond in 2009, returning via Turnhouse Road and seeing a number of bus stops with no service details on the flags nor any timetable information. I guess these services ceased when the Turnhouse RAF base closed in 1996. By 2012, a company called Waverley was operating a Turnhouse Road service (possibly the 68).

On a similar note, I noticed a bus stop at the South Gyle houses in 2019 which had no service details either on the flag or in the timetable holder in the shelter. Would this stop date from prior to the opening of the Gyle Centre and Edinburgh Park, would anyone know?

The 48 variant you’re thinking of I think is the 48B. I have that same map and I know that’s listed as going to Turnhouse on it. I think it ran to somewhere near Longstone.

I believe Waverley Travel previously ran a 70 between Gyle Centre and Balerno that used to serve the housing in South Gyle and I’m sure that was the last bus to use the stops you mention. It was withdrawn many years ago now, although I can’t remember exactly when. I would guess around 2015 was actually when it was withdrawn but that really is a rough guess and could be a good 2 or 3 years out either way.

 

[DunsBus]

No one can possibly know until the contracts are awarded.

Well said.

 

[rugray]

Did Lothian ever run the 68? They did do some services serving Turnhouse Road years ago. I have a route map from 1993 somewhere (which I cannot find at present), but IIRC the Turnhouse services were the 31 (selected journeys only) and the 48 (possibly a variation with a letter suffix, rather than the main 48). I recall going for a walk along the River Almond in 2009, returning via Turnhouse Road and seeing a number of bus stops with no service details on the flags nor any timetable information. I guess these services ceased when the Turnhouse RAF base closed in 1996. By 2012, a company called Waverley was operating a Turnhouse Road service (possibly the 68).

On a similar note, I noticed a bus stop at the South Gyle houses in 2019 which had no service details either on the flag or in the timetable holder in the shelter. Would this stop date from prior to the opening of the Gyle Centre and Edinburgh Park, would anyone know?

Was it the 25 that ran to Turnhouse in the 70s using the Seddons? I remember the Seddons but can't remember the route.

BTW the Seddons had the worst leg room ever.

 

[Acfb]

I’m not sure why people think Lothian will mess around with their commercial services to cover these routes that First are giving up. Surely it is the responsibility of the council to just retender them as they are?

Couldn't Lothian just divert the X27 via Ratho and have it come out at Wilkieston? Only issue is the Dalmahoy bus stop heading towards Wilkieston is the wrong side of the Ratho turnoff.

On the other hand maybe it isn't worth it and it only takes 20 minutes to walk from Ratho to Dalmahoy.

 

[InOban]

On a fairly narrow road with no pavement or lighting.

The issue has reached the online Edinburgh Live. The residents, many elderly, are looking for a service into the Centre, not just to Chesser. They didn't use the tendered service for that reason, and drove instead, so far fewer use the bus than did when it was an extension of another route.

 

[computerSaysNo]

On a fairly narrow road with no pavement or lighting.

The issue has reached the online Edinburgh Live. The residents, many elderly, are looking for a service into the Centre, not just to Chesser. They didn't use the tendered service for that reason, and drove instead, so far fewer use the bus than did when it was an extension of another route.

Do they want a direct service or just any service?
If the latter: I think it was mentioned before but extending the 12 might work (already low frequency with late start/early finish; would need to be either once hourly or thrice hourly though, twice hourly wouldn't fit in with the current timetable unless it was changed).
Extending the 22 once/if it's reduced in frequency again might also be an option but then that might be viewed as a waste of double-deck vehicles.
Extending the 2 or 36 might also work but both are already quite long/cross-city routes so extending them further may be unfavourable.

If the residents want a direct service then I can't really see how that could be provided without a completely new service (via Maybury). If you really wanted to push the boat out you could split the 31 into two with route A running as the main route Bonnyrigg Hopefield to East Craigs, and route B as the secondary running Polton Mill to Maybury as per the current 31 route then just keep going along the A8 to Ratho.

 

[VioletEclipse]

bustimes.org and https://visualedinburgh.co.uk/ seem to suggest that every bus on service 25 is currently heading west and the last bus to leave Heriot-Watt Uni was at 18:35. From what someone I know who's on the route is saying, this seems to be true. If it is then any idea how a service as frequent as the 25 can have such bad bunching/delay problems?

 

[duncanp]

bustimes.org and https://visualedinburgh.co.uk/ seem to suggest that every bus on service 25 is currently heading west and the last bus to leave Heriot-Watt Uni was at 18:35. What someone I know who's on the route is saying, this seems to be true. If it is then any idea how a service as frequent as the 25 can have such bad bunching/delay problems?

I don't know if this is relevant but Hearts are at home to Ross County on the first day of the football season.

This could delay buses heading along Gorgie Road, or cause them to be diverted via Slateford Road

 

[VioletEclipse]

I don't know if this is relevant but Hearts are at home to Ross County on the first day of the football season.

This could delay buses heading along Gorgie Road, or cause them to be diverted via Slateford Road

Thanks for saying.
I've known football games to cause significant delays in and around Gorgie but I can't remember a time where a service frequent enough for turn-up-and-go like the 25 has over a 70 minute gap between buses at the terminus. Could be festival-related traffic, but from personal observation there seems to be less traffic than usual in town today.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Thanks for saying.
I've known football games to cause significant delays in and around Gorgie but I can't remember a time where a service frequent enough for turn-up-and-go like the 25 has over a 70 minute gap between buses at the terminus. Could be festival-related traffic, but from personal observation there seems to be less traffic than usual in town today.

The 41 also seems to be affected not at a scale to that of the 25, earlier I was supposed to be on 399 but it deadran to the depot (as many of the buses on the 25 have today). Only one bus heading towards Kings Buildings and it's only in the Cramond Area, no bus available to do the 20:30 from Kings Buildings. I imagine it's another issue in regards to driver shortages, as it has been mentioned a lot here many buses have had no choice but to head back to the depot due to no alternative driver being available.

 

[VioletEclipse]

The 41 also seems to be affected not at a scale to that of the 25, earlier I was supposed to be on 399 but it deadran to the depot (as many of the buses on the 25 have today). Only one bus heading towards Kings Buildings and it's only in the Cramond Area, no bus available to do the 20:30 from Kings Buildings. I imagine it's another issue in regards to driver shortages, as it has been mentioned a lot here many buses have had no choice but to head back to the depot due to no alternative driver being available.

If https://visualedinburgh.co.uk/ is to be believed then the only 2 buses on service 25 currently are 604 and 630, both almost at the uni campus. I don't know the vehicle requirement for the 25 on a Saturday evening but I know it's usually pretty frequent even into the evening and runs until midnight. I have never seen a frequent route this badly affected.

 

[Bus9120UK]

If https://visualedinburgh.co.uk/ is to be believed then the only 2 buses on service 25 currently are 604 and 630, both almost at the uni campus. I don't know the vehicle requirement for the 25 on a Saturday evening but I know it's usually pretty frequent even into the evening and runs until midnight. I have never seen a frequent route this badly affected.

604's just returned to Longstone now too...

 

[EdinRH]

The 48 variant you’re thinking of I think is the 48B. I have that same map and I know that’s listed as going to Turnhouse on it. I think it ran to somewhere near Longstone.

I believe Waverley Travel previously ran a 70 between Gyle Centre and Balerno that used to serve the housing in South Gyle and I’m sure that was the last bus to use the stops you mention. It was withdrawn many years ago now, although I can’t remember exactly when. I would guess around 2015 was actually when it was withdrawn but that really is a rough guess and could be a good 2 or 3 years out either way.

I've just found the 1993 route map. All versions of the 48 went to Turnhouse. The main 48 ran from St Andrew Square and went via Haymarket and Corstorphine. The 48A and 48B ran from Longstone and went via Wester Hailes, Sighthill, Broomhouse and Corstorphine. The main 48 and the 48B went straight along Glasgow Road to Maybury and on to Turnhouse. The 48A went part of the way up Drum Brae then turned along Craigs Road to Maybury Road at East Craigs before going to the Maybury junction and Turnhouse.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

If https://visualedinburgh.co.uk/ is to be believed then the only 2 buses on service 25 currently are 604 and 630, both almost at the uni campus. I don't know the vehicle requirement for the 25 on a Saturday evening but I know it's usually pretty frequent even into the evening and runs until midnight. I have never seen a frequent route this badly affected.

It seems terrible, They could've diverted some services via Ardmillan Terrace, although not sure if it is too close to the stadium.

 

[Bus9120UK]

It seems terrible, They could've diverted some services via Ardmillan Terrace, although not sure if it is too close to the stadium.

I idon't think it's anything related to events at the stadium, other services seem to be operating as standard it's just the 25 affected. I again imagine it's driver shortages.

 

[Busman757]

So looks like First representatives have met with CEC regarding the 20, 63 and 68.

Briefing note from the Public Transport Manager, City of Edinburgh council…

• First Bus Supported Bus Service Contracts

First Services 20, 63, 68
Update following meeting with First Bus on 29 July 2022

Background:

On 5 March 2020, Finance and Resources Committee approved the award of three supported bus service contracts to the operator First Bus. These services are:

• Service 20 (Ratho to Chesser)
• Service 63 (Queensferry to Balerno)
• Service 68 (Turnhouse to Gyle)

The contracts were awarded for an initial 2-year period commencing Summer 2020 with 2 further 12-month options to extend.
Previously it was reported that First Bus were not minded to accept contract extensions due to lack of driver resource. This may have meant that services could have ceased to operate at contract end date of 30 August 2022.

There was significant concern that this date would not allow sufficient time to procure alternative provision. Discussions have been ongoing and officers met with First Bus representatives again on 29 July to investigate any possibility of continuing services beyond 30 August.

First Bus has now agreed that they will be able to continue at least some level of service beyond the 30 August. The precise details are yet to be agreed and First Bus will submit proposed timetables for officers to review. This will reflect a reduced level of service in order for First Bus to operate with their limited driver resource but will at least ensure that the communities served by these bus services will not be cut-off.

First Bus are working extremely hard on driver recruitment and are hopeful that the current situation will improve over the coming weeks/months. This recruitment process may allow greater level of service to resume and perhaps contract extensions to be agreed, however, alternative provision and procurement processes will continue to be investigated in the meantime.

It is unknown if they are taking the 12 month extension or a continuing until another operate takes the routes.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Lothian seem to have added a new feature for 466-495 on the app