Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Siemens Trains]

Some passengers, whose first language didn't seem to be English, hailed a 900 at the Airlink stop on South St David Street just now (~2:30am), causing much confusion among the several people waiting there!

To be fair, I didn't realise a handful of 900s do serve the airport overnight but still... I got the impression that everyone thought this was just a variation of the 100!

The 900 driver did try to tell everyone that Airlink would be cheaper. In any case, the 100 that showed up on schedule a few minute later still gets you to the airport before security even opens, and a good two to three hours before the very first flights leave!

Maybe the numbering is a little misleading (or helpful, depending how you look at it) because Edinburgh Airport has a convention for route numbers ending in '00'. We've had Lothian's 100, 200, 300, 400 and First's 600 that I recall over the past few years. But with the 900 it's only journeys that can't get into the bus station that serve the airport. I suppose it's quite a creative way to use these journeys so long as passengers don't get into the habit of thinking they can board a normal 900 on South St David Street (hopefully its normal route doesn't go this way).
Slightly off topic but as a passenger I find it a little confusing that westbound Citylink services 900 and 909 observe stop PU on Princes Street, which is otherwise only used by services destined for Queensferry St like the 19 or X43. If stopping on Princes St at all maybe PX would make more sense in common with other routes via Corstorphine like the X18 or X38. But perhaps they want to discourage short hop concession-holders from using the 900 while retaining a boarding point between the bus station and West End. The Shandwick Place SD stop is shared with the 100 and X38, which seems intuitive for passengers.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

With Lothian Country now being one of the main primary operators within West Lothian now, do you think they will now launch a Lothian Country Ridacard?

Obviously the base Ridacard covers the CityWest Zone and takes £1 off your journey if you travel further West, but long term would it not be more beneficial if Lothian were to offer a Ridacard option with appealing benefits, I know TapTapCap is the way forward but Ridacards are still a perfectly functional way to travel.

I was thinking maybe something like this if the Ridacards were to be revised.

RIDACARD PLANS

Base Ridacard - Normal Ridacard which covers all of the City/CityWest Zone, The Airport, Zone A/B of East Coast Buses, Edinburgh Trams and Nightbuses. Add on fares required for travel in further zones for Lothian Country and East Coast Buses

Country Ridacard - Covers Lothian Country Zones A - D along with CityWest Zone, add on fares required for travel within Edinburgh City Zone, not suitable for Lothian City Services, Edinburgh Trams or East Coast Buses.

Country+ Ridacard - Covers all zones in Lothian Country, Lothian City Services, Airlink, Skylink, Edinburgh Trams and Zone A/B of East Coast Buses, add on fares required for travel in further zones for East Coast Buses.

County Ridacard - Covers East Coast Buses zones B-F, add on fares required for travel within Edinburgh City Zone, not suitable for Lothian City Services, Edinburgh Trams or Lothian Country

County+ Ridacard - Covers all zones in East Coast Buses, Lothian City Services, Airlink, Skylink, Edinburgh Trams and City/CityWest Zones of Lothian Country, add on fares required for travel in further zones of Lothian Country

Network Ridacard - Travel on every service with no restrictions, Suitable for all Lothian, Airlink, Skylink, Teams, Nightbus, Nighthawk, East Coast and Lothian Country services.

These 6 ideas have different benefits for each region it applies for, I remembered back in the day when Lothian Country ran in East Lothian and had the Zone C/D Ridacards, so the County Ridacard would replace that, and any casual journeys would be cheaper if you have the Base Ridacard like with any journey to West Lothian.

I doubt this would be implemented but it would be handy and convenient if the Lothian family were to consider this considering they are connecting West Lothian to East Lothian.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I mean if a longer version is introduced in the future, I should've clarified.

Ah. I'd heard that the weight of the batteries meant that full length (dual axle) electric double deckers couldn't be built because they'd be too heavy, but hopefully they can be made lighter in future.

 

[A330Alex]

With Lothian Country now being one of the main primary operators within West Lothian now, do you think they will now launch a Lothian Country Ridacard?

Obviously the base Ridacard covers the CityWest Zone and takes £1 off your journey if you travel further West, but long term would it not be more beneficial if Lothian were to offer a Ridacard option with appealing benefits, I know TapTapCap is the way forward but Ridacards are still a perfectly functional way to travel.

I was thinking maybe something like this if the Ridacards were to be revised.

RIDACARD PLANS

Base Ridacard - Normal Ridacard which covers all of the City/CityWest Zone, The Airport, Zone A/B of East Coast Buses, Edinburgh Trams and Nightbuses. Add on fares required for travel in further zones for Lothian Country and East Coast Buses

Country Ridacard - Covers Lothian Country Zones A - D along with CityWest Zone, add on fares required for travel within Edinburgh City Zone, not suitable for Lothian City Services, Edinburgh Trams or East Coast Buses.

Country+ Ridacard - Covers all zones in Lothian Country, Lothian City Services, Airlink, Skylink, Edinburgh Trams and Zone A/B of East Coast Buses, add on fares required for travel in further zones for East Coast Buses.

County Ridacard - Covers East Coast Buses zones B-F, add on fares required for travel within Edinburgh City Zone, not suitable for Lothian City Services, Edinburgh Trams or Lothian Country

County+ Ridacard - Covers all zones in East Coast Buses, Lothian City Services, Airlink, Skylink, Edinburgh Trams and City/CityWest Zones of Lothian Country, add on fares required for travel in further zones of Lothian Country

Network Ridacard - Travel on every service with no restrictions, Suitable for all Lothian, Airlink, Skylink, Teams, Nightbus, Nighthawk, East Coast and Lothian Country services.

These 6 ideas have different benefits for each region it applies for, I remembered back in the day when Lothian Country ran in East Lothian and had the Zone C/D Ridacards, so the County Ridacard would replace that, and any casual journeys would be cheaper if you have the Base Ridacard like with any journey to West Lothian.

I doubt this would be implemented but it would be handy and convenient if the Lothian family were to consider this considering they are connecting West Lothian to East Lothian.

Lothian have been the dominant operator with ECB for a significant amount of time and have never felt the need for a similar Ridacard so I find it unlikely.

The Ridacard itself is an old product that is non-ITSO and likely due for a replacement. I imagine Lothian would be very unlikely to expand its use. A monthly Tap Tap Cap or a new smart card product would be much more likely IMO.

Loosely related but a tap-off reader could also significantly reduce boarding times on LCB, ECB and airport services.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Lothian have been the dominant operator with ECB for a significant amount of time and have never felt the need for a similar Ridacard so I find it unlikely.

The Ridacard itself is an old product that is non-ITSO and likely due for a replacement. I imagine Lothian would be very unlikely to expand its use. A monthly Tap Tap Cap or a new smart card product would be much more likely IMO.

Loosely related but a tap-off reader could also significantly reduce boarding times on LCB, ECB and airport services.

Which I never understood why exactly? Even if it is a product of the time it still comes in handy as having a pass for the bus which everyone can obtain.

 

[stevenedin]

Which I never understood why exactly? Even if it is a product of the time it still comes in handy as having a pass for the bus which everyone can obtain.

I’ve always thought so too. Maybe it costs too much to produce the cards and they lose out a lot of money for example the ridacard in Edinburgh is £62 a month by direct debit.

If someone uses their card and it reaches the £22 weekly cap. That’s at least £88 a month on a 4 week month.

This probably makes up for when people used to mostly pay by cash and put in more than what the fare was since it is exact change.

 

[Sussexscot]

Just visited the TfE app to see what is moving and was surprised to see only 2 x 72, no 73, 1 x 74 and 1 x X40. I did not bother with those services going into central Edinburgh as the Christmas Shopping traffic has properly screwed the bus service again. Is Livingston so short of drivers or is the vehicle tracking snafu again?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Just visited the TfE app to see what is moving and was surprised to see only 2 x 72, no 73, 1 x 74 and 1 x X40. I did not bother with those services going into central Edinburgh as the Christmas Shopping traffic has properly screwed the bus service again. Is Livingston so short of drivers or is the vehicle tracking snafu again?

Yep it looks like most of the older buses with the older automatic vehicle location technology has stopped working properly again (841-850 and 932-936). This was resolved at the start of the week but the issues are now back. These services will be running as intended. 1047 is also on the 73/4 at the moment but is just tracking generally without a service allocated to it. 1033 and 1039 are the remaining X40s which were tracking fine but are now tracking without a number allocated to them as of the last hour or so.
My understanding is that Livingston is surplus of drivers.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Just visited the TfE app to see what is moving and was surprised to see only 2 x 72, no 73, 1 x 74 and 1 x X40. I did not bother with those services going into central Edinburgh as the Christmas Shopping traffic has properly screwed the bus service again. Is Livingston so short of drivers or is the vehicle tracking snafu again?

841-850 and 932-936 frequently dont track. Its the tracking thats the issue

 

[CSB0241]

Does anybody have any photos of the East Coast Buses 107 that operates on Christmas Day? Preparing to record a journey on it & want to find out more about it

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Does anybody have any photos of the East Coast Buses 107 that operates on Christmas Day? Preparing to record a journey on it & want to find out more about it

I have a rather rubbish one from last year, I will send it later.

 

[Bus9120UK]

It looks like 356-361, 363 have temporarily been moved to Marine to allow for tour buses (221/4/5/31/5/6/8/44/5) to be operated out of Central while Marine is shut. Note that more tour buses are tracking at Central, but this is because their trackers are frozen since gaining new AVLs.

 

[CSB0241]

It looks like 356-361, 363 have temporarily been moved to Marine to allow for tour buses to be operated out of Central for obvious reasons.

I can see why they would do that. Could the above septet perhaps run on services like the 4 or 21?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I can see why they would do that. Could the above septet perhaps run on services like the 4 or 21?

They were just bus swaps for drivers to get back to Marine.

Merry Christmas to everyone on the forums. (Yes, it's off-topic but it's nice to be nice!!)

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Very different allocations today, seems only variants of the Enviro 400 are operating. I have made a small list of what buses are on what routes:

Services 3, 11*, 16*, 26, 100* - B8L E400XLB

Services 7, 19*, 27, 30 - ADL E400 MMC

*normal bus operating service

 

[Bus9120UK]

Been seeing a few Service 3s on B8Ls over the day. Are there any other routes with Christmas-related allocations? It makes sense to have the 3 on XLBs with a 30minute timetable... not sure about others.

It's more simply because every route, as always, is operated out of Central today. Might as well use the XLBs where it works. It's those and the 600s in use.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

It's more simply because every route, as always, is operated out of Central today. Might as well use the XLBs where it works. It's those and the 600s in use.

Seen more ones and updated my post, it seems only variants of the E400s are being used, as you said. (601-698 and 1063-1130) Wouldn't make sense to have some 300s on as they have been moved and there are better options!

 

[ScotRail158725]

Very different allocations today, seems only variants of the Enviro 400 are operating. I have made a small list of what buses are on what routes:

Services 3, 11*, 16*, 26, 100* - B8L E400XLB

Services 7, 19*, 27, 30 - ADL E400 MMC

*normal bus operating service

It's always the case on Christmas day that Central's newest fleet operates - it has been the case for longer than i can remember. Same as the Nightbuses.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Its always the case on Christmas day that Centrals newest fleet operates its been the case for longer than i can remember. Same as the Nightbuses

Same with the Hogmanay Buses as well? I normally see B8s on the H3 over the past few years.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Same with the Hogmanay Buses as well? I normally see B8s on the H3 over the past few years.

Yep. same with hogmany. Will be B8s and 668-698 this year

 

[CN04NRJ]

It's more simply because every route, as always, is operated out of Central today. Might as well use the XLBs where it works. It's those and the 600s in use.

Everything out of Central tomorrow too, doesn't seem to be any MCVs moved this year. Wonder if any poor drivers will end up with 1-10 on the 48??

 

[InOban]

Seen more ones and updated my post, it seems only variants of the E400s are being used, as you said. (601-698 and 1063-1130) Wouldn't make sense to have some 300s on as they have been moved and there are better options!

If you've seen quite a few, how busy were they,?

 

[muffy]

It's always the case on Christmas day that Central's newest fleet operates - it has been the case for longer than i can remember. Same as the Nightbuses.

It would have been interesting to see what Central would kick out to replace a sick Lothian Country bus today as 1041 was struggling on an Eastbound X27 this morning. However, it croaked at Wilkieson and 584 came from Deans to rescue us. I was hoping for it to make Edinburgh before failing.

The Tracker and bustimes were slow to catch up through.

1041 - https://bustimes.org/services/x27-bathgate-edinburgh/vehicles#journeys/5198304

Vehicles – X27 - Bathgate - Edinburgh – bustimes.org

584 - https://bustimes.org/vehicles/loth-584?date=2023-12-25#journeys/519830871 https://bustimes.org/vehicles/loth-584?date=2023-12-25#journeys/519831161

 

[liuwh]

Very different allocations today, seems only variants of the Enviro 400 are operating. I have made a small list of what buses are on what routes:

Services 3, 11*, 16*, 26, 100* - B8L E400XLB

Services 7, 19*, 27, 30 - ADL E400 MMC

*normal bus operating service

Which route will you expect to have XLBs on tomorrow? They're unusual in normal allocations - perhaps the 24, 25, 34 or 49?

 

[paul47B]

Which route will u expect to have XLB tmr which is unusual in normal allocations perhaps the 24 25 34 or 49?

I will have a guess at the 25. Do I get a prize if I am right?

Everything out of Central tomorrow too, doesn't seem to be any MCVs moved this year. Wonder if any poor drivers will end up with 1-10 on the 48??

Those drivers might need to be offered extra pay

 

[CN04NRJ]

Which route will u expect to have XLB tmr which is unusual in normal allocations perhaps the 24 25 34 or 49?

Maybe the 26, wouldn't get your hopes up about anything else.

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

If you've seen quite a few, how busy were they,?

3 was a little bit less busy than a normal weekday, but not empty. Doing decently well but I think an improved frequency with the B8s would be a bit more suitable for normal service.

Which route will you expect to have XLBs on tomorrow? They're unusual in normal allocations - perhaps the 24, 25, 34 or 49?

I think the 3 still has decent possibilities to stay on XLBs as it has been today - the 24 and 49 are not busy enough and can manage on other buses in the network. As for the 25/34, there is also a possibility of them being on the B8s.

I noticed that over Christmas Eve, the 29 was having mainly ADL E400MMC so maybe the 400 bus batch will be on a different service…

But my main guess is the 34 - let’s just wait and see!

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Which route will you expect to have XLBs on tomorrow? They're unusual in normal allocations - perhaps the 24, 25, 34 or 49?

The 26 has been on them for the best few years and wouldn't expect anything different.

Which route will you expect to have XLBs on tomorrow? They're unusual in normal allocations - perhaps the 24, 25, 34 or 49?

I will have a guess at the 25. Do I get a prize if I am right?

Maybe the 26, wouldn't get your hopes up about anything else.

Allocations today: (Obviously there may be one or two of another bus so I've made it as accurate as I can and they may change a little during the day.)

Service 1 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service 3 - Volvo B5TL ADL Enviro400 MMC
Service 7 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service 8 - Volvo B5TL ADL Enviro400 MMC
Service 11 - Volvo B8L ADL Enviro400 XLB
Service 14- Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service 16 - Volvo B8L ADL Enviro400 XLB
Service 19 - Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 3
Service 21 - Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 3
Service 22 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service 24 - Volvo B5TL ADL Enviro400 MMC
Service 25 - Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 3
Service 26 - Volvo B8L ADL Enviro400 XLB
Service 27 - Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 3
Service 29 - Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 3
Service 30 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service 31 - Volvo B8L ADL Enviro400 XLB
Service 34 - Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 3
Service 37 - Volvo B8L ADL Enviro400 XLB
Service 43 - Volvo B5LH Wright Eclipse Gemini 3
Service 44 - Volvo B5TL ADL Enviro400 MMC
Service 46 - Volvo B5TL ADL Enviro400 MMC
Service 47 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service 48 - Volvo BRLH Volvo 7900H
Service 49 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service 72 - Volvo B5LH Wright Eclipse Gemini 3
Service 74 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service 100 - Volvo B8L ADL Enviro400 XLB
Service 106 - Volvo B8RLE Wright Eclipse Urban 3 (Off-peak only).
Service 113 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service 124 - Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 3
Service 400 - Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 3
Service X6 - Volvo B5TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 3
Service X7 - Volvo B8RLE Wright Eclipse Urban 3
Service X18 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service X27 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service X28 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2
Service X40 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2

Even though I could probably guess the ones that aren't out, that wouldn't be accurate information. With East Coast Buses there is a mix of double allocations but I have listed the main one.

 

[liuwh]

Service 1 - Volvo B9TL Wright Eclipse Gemini 2

1064 is also on the 1 today as well

 

[DespacitoPlayz]

Service 400 - Not out yet and I will update at approximately 20:00 (08:00 PM) tonight.

442 and 462 are on the 400. 498-510 (the skylink batch) are not operating on the 400 as of now. (10am)