Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[Bedford OB]

They should be advertised here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/notices-and-proceedings-for-scotland

Wasn't it every 8-10 minutes before COVID? I don't have the timetables to hand to check but I thought I remembered it being the most frequent route out of Longstone?

There were a few 8-10 minute intervals at the height of the morning peak, and a few 10 minute intervals in the afternoon, in the timetables of 3 Sept 2017 and 25 Feb 2018, but these were widened out to 10-12 minutes at the next change (29 July 2018) and remained that way in the following timetable (14 July 2019). After this, Covid kicked in; the first Covid timetable on 23 March saw the 30 increased to every 10 mins during the day on Mon-Fri, but this only lasted 6 days to 29 March when the critical services network was introduced and the service was reduced to every 30 minutes during the day as far as Fort Kinnaird (hourly to Musselburgh after 1000).

 

[Aaronb2601]

I know this has been mentioned in a previous post recently, but I was just wondering if it’s likely that there will be some sort of service change across the Lothian network announced this week or soon or if that was just a joke?

 

[GusB]

The acquisition of Eve Coaches by Lothian has clearly come as a surprise to some and, understandably, it has generated a fair amount of speculation. With that in mind, said discussion has been moved to this thread:

Lothian Buses acquires Eve Coaches

Didn't see this coming: https://www.lothianbuses.com/news/2024/02/lothian-announce-purchase-of-eve-coaches/ Lothian has today (13 February 2024) announced it has purchased East Lothian coach operator Eve Coaches. The award-winning transport operator will acquire the touring operator, based...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[CN04NRJ]

I know this has been mentioned in a previous post recently, but I was just wondering if it’s likely that there will be some sort of service change across the Lothian network announced this week or soon or if that was just a joke?

Yes, there will be one announced publicly soon.

 

[NorthClyde320]

926-936 received different fleet numbers as they were unbranded, thus a continuation of 876-925.

301-350 when new were all branded. 301-325 for 26 Connect, 326-350 for 22 Connect.

Why this then got flipped on its head for 351-400, 937-950 and 951-960 I’m not sure.

I'm sure I read it was about some numbers being used for older buses and thus not allowing sufficient space for a sequence

I came up with the following which may be of use to people:

Volvo B7TL:
701-750. SN55
751-825. SN56

Volvo B9TL:
826-839. SK07
840-875. SN57
Both = 50
876-925. SN08
= 50
301-329. SN09 (ends with CVK)
926-936. SN09 (starts with CVL)
330-350. SN59
All 3 = 61
937-950. SN10/LB10
= 14 + above =75
951-960. LB11/SN11 (ends with EAP)
351-400. SN11 (starts with EAW)
Both =60


Just my thoughts but at present Lothian could do a small bit of renumbering to free up the 800 and 900 ranges for future new buses
841-850 become 301-310, 905/906 become 312/313, 926-960 become 316-350 aligning with 351-400

 

[Aaronb2601]

Earlier on while on the transport for Edinburgh bus tracker app, I noticed this, the X27 showing as going to Whitburn. I am aware that the X27 currently terminates in Bathgate but with the possible upcoming service changes could this be a sign of it returning to Whitburn?

 

[SoloSR334022]

On the Lothian Bus and Tram app it appears to still say Bathgate for the X27...

 

[Bus9120UK]

On the Lothian Bus and Tram app it appears to still say Bathgate for the X27...

View attachment 152328

Both are the same app, the difference is the one in the post above is the iOS Apple version. I'm assuming Whitburn showing for the X27 is a bug on their app is a bug.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Just my thoughts but at present Lothian could do a small bit of renumbering to free up the 800 and 900 ranges for future new buses
841-850 become 301-310, 905/906 become 312/313, 926-960 become 316-350 aligning with 351-400

It's not really like Lothian to reshuffle fleet numbers unless needed, sure its happened many times, but this time they have literally hundreds of vacant fleet numbers so I very much doubt they'll change around fleet numbers.

 

[stevenedin]

It's not really like Lothian to reshuffle fleet numbers unless needed, sure its happened many times, but this time they have literally hundreds of vacant fleet numbers so I very much doubt they'll change around fleet numbers.

It’ll be likely that 841-850 will be gone before they get to the 800s anyway. The next batch are more likely to be either in the 200s or 700s. The same with the 900s.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Service change from Sunday 24 March - Lothian Buses

Changes to Lothian Buses’ network will take effect from Sunday 10 September in response to customer feedback, improving reliability and connectivity and increasing services for returning students.

www.lothianbuses.com

A service change will take effect on the Lothian network from Sunday 24 March, affecting Lothian Buses, Airport services, East Coast Buses, Lothian Country and Nightbus services.

Highlights of this upcoming service change include:

Timetable and frequency improvements on core services to support customer growth
Review of running times across all routes to improve reliability
New peak time only service on Queensferry Road
Service 43 – additional evening journeys will be introduced on all days
New NightBus service N35
Extra evening and Sunday services for Lochend, Portobello and Duddingston Village

Full details on the page.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

Service change from Sunday 24 March - Lothian Buses

Changes to Lothian Buses’ network will take effect from Sunday 10 September in response to customer feedback, improving reliability and connectivity and increasing services for returning students.

www.lothianbuses.com

Full details on the page.

They've missed out the 45 evening journeys to Eastfield have been scrapped, they still have two journeys coming from Eastfield though in the morning.

 

[roadierway77]

Service change from Sunday 24 March - Lothian Buses

Changes to Lothian Buses’ network will take effect from Sunday 10 September in response to customer feedback, improving reliability and connectivity and increasing services for returning students.

www.lothianbuses.com

Full details on the page.

It's interesting how they've prioritised routes such as the 1, 23, 27 and 35 for frequency increases and not those crying out for extra capacity such as the 3, 25 and 26, but good to see improvements to these services, especially the 36 - a 20min frequency offers far more flexibility compared to a 30min frequency. The 1 has seen some rapid improvements recently, believe it's gone from a 20min frequency to a 12min frequency in a year? Good to see evening improvements to support the city's economy, including the new N35. I believe a number of people on here have predicted the 106 being extended to Fort Kinnaird at some point, myself included, nice to see it come to fruition as its really a no-brainer considering the long layover times at QMU. Also very interesting to see the introduction of only the second 'lettered' route, a practice Lothian has avoided in modern times.

 

[Bus9120UK]

It's interesting how they've prioritised routes such as the 1, 23, 27 and 35 for frequency increases and not those crying out for extra capacity such as the 3, 25 and 26, but good to see improvements to these services, especially the 36 - a 20min frequency offers far more flexibility compared to a 30min frequency. The 1 has seen some rapid improvements recently, believe it's gone from a 20min frequency to a 12min frequency in a year? Good to see evening improvements to support the city's economy, including the new N35. I believe a number of people on here have predicted the 106 being extended to Fort Kinnaird at some point, myself included, nice to see it come to fruition as its really a no-brainer considering the long layover times at QMU. Also very interesting to see the introduction of only the second 'lettered' route, a practice Lothian has avoided in modern times.

It's good to see a Sunday service on the eastern stretch of the 12 (formerly 42) after all this time as well, alongside a Saturday 45 service.

Would the X47 not be better off terminating in Cramond, following the former 41 route pre-Cammo extension?

They accidentally leaked their new Regal Tour on the Ocean Terminal map but then swapped it for a generic name.

 

[VioletEclipse]

Glad for the frequency increases, the 22A is the first A-prefix since 2017, and a service most people will never see given the times it runs, the N35 being unidirectional could be confusing for people, and service X47 has returned, with basically no relation to the last route to carry the number X47.

Glad to see Saturday 45 yourneys finally back after nearly 7 years and Sunday 12 to Porty finally. However, weekday frequencies on the X27 and X28 still need to be improved.

 

[Voyager lad]

Something I’d have still liked to see would be the 100 serving Ingliston P&R overnight when the tram isn’t running. I drive in from Falkirk for starting work between 5&7am and having the bus from Ingliston would be really helpful

 

[stevenedin]

A bit of an anti climax but nice to see frequency increases and some minor introductions including the new 22A and X47.

It’s a shame that the X40 is moving to serve Dedridge East again as this will slow down the route but for residents in that area, I understand why they changed it.

It is clear that the changes to the 22 have been having an impact on passengers so the 1 has to be increased to cope with the demand between Stenhouse and Princes Street. The new X47 also indicates that the 43 isn’t enough on Queensferry Road. I think it would’ve been better to introduce an X43 again but then again maybe the passenger numbers are only up to Barnton.

 

[A330Alex]

The X47 is a curious one (with the whole three stops it skips). Perhaps passengers have been using the 43 for the Princes St connection over the 47.

 

[Bus9120UK]

It’s a shame that the X40 is moving to serve Dedridge East again as this will slow down the route but for residents in that area, I understand why they changed it.

Reducing the 20 minute layover to 15 minutes which is fair but could still make a difference whenever something goes wrong on the bypass. I guess this is just a way to make the X40 seem slightly more popular.

It is clear that the changes to the 22 have been having an impact on passengers so the 1 has to be increased to cope with the demand between Stenhouse and Princes Street. The new X47 also indicates that the 43 isn’t enough on Queensferry Road. I think it would’ve been better to introduce an X43 again but then again maybe the passenger numbers are only up to Barnton.

People have long time suggested an addition of a peak service as far as Barnton only so I'm glad to see it being implemented, though I don't think we were really expecting this to be an X47. As for the 1, I actually think it's probably busier on the eastern end.

They've scrapped the short 72 from Livingston to St. Johns Hospital, unsurprisingly.

 

[Auld reekie]

I'm glad they didn't change the 44 frequency as most of the time you get 2 together and occasionally 3 together.

 

[ScotRail158725]

It's interesting how they've prioritised routes such as the 1, 23, 27 and 35 for frequency increases and not those crying out for extra capacity such as the 3, 25 and 26

Yes it’s an underwhelming service change in that aspect. The evening 19 extension aswell seem resources in the wrong place

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Yes it’s an underwhelming service change in that aspect. The evening 19 extension aswell seem resources in the wrong place

I think the 19 extending to Eastfield has payed off and I think helps relieve pressure off the 26, if anything I think it's a good idea they did this.

Good news for the sake of the 12/27/36/106 etc, would of expected more but baby steps I guess.. would of thought of getting more from LCB personally, especially with the local services and the X17/X28, but I suppose it they have too they can tweak the network at a later date.

I would of personally extended the 45 to Eastfield full time but I suppose you have to take what you get these days.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Good news for the sake of the 12/27/36/106 etc, would of expected more but baby steps I guess.. would of thought of getting more from LCB personally, especially with the local services and the X17/X28, but I suppose it they have too they can tweak the network at a later date.

Important to note there are now no spare vehicles that can be moved to Lothian Country for further increases with Lothian City taking the remaining VOR fleet. I'm sure increases will happen in the future once BZLs arrive.

Long term, surely the 1 must go up to a double decker once it's possible? Every 12 minutes in the morning and after 1pm is not what I'd have ever expected.

 

[overthewater]

Crap and disappointing, if this is the best we can expect for the West Lothian network then Lothian are worse than McGills and they're worse than the bad days of First Edinburgh. I think by the time any improvements appear, which now looks like August/September time, they will have chased every bus passenger away. I hope they're proud.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Crap and disappointing, if this is the best we can expect for the West Lothian network then Lothian are worse than McGills and there worse then the bad days of First Edinburgh. I think by the time any improvements appear, which now looks like August/September time, they will have chased every bus passengers away. I hope there proud.

I don't think it's as simple as, hey let's double our frequency and run every bus till midnight, and I'm sure they aren't "proud" either if I'm honest, I'm sure if they had the drivers and resources they would of done more, and even so, who says the West Lothian changes have to be that long of a wait?

 

[LothianBusesPh]

I don't think it's as simple as, hey let's double our frequency and run every bus till midnight, and I'm sure they aren't "proud" either if I'm honest, I'm sure if they had the drivers and resources they would of done more, and even so, who says the West Lothian changes have to be that long of a wait?

The next service change will most likely be May 26th when the universities finish up, and when there is an early service change it tends to be for reliability with the summer change having more route improvements. I think the reliability changes on routes should hopefully ease the strain on the network, and fix some issues like the Service 2 on the west end being too slack due to the Gyle Centre being cut last summer.

 

[Bus9120UK]

It isn't unlikely for a change to take place when University finishes for the summer, and another once University starts back. (Late May then September). However, this year I wouldn't expect much in either of these changes - just a removal of some extra peak time journeys and some minor tweaks. Surely then something has to improve at Lothian Country? Long term, the present network just isn't enough.

Any updates as to progression with the BZLs at all?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

It isn't unlikely for a change to take place when University finishes for the summer, and another once University starts back. (Late May then September). However, this year I wouldn't expect much in either of these changes - just a removal of some extra peak time journeys and some minor tweaks. Surely then something has to improve at Lothian Country? Long term, the present network just isn't enough.

Agreed, plus there is the matter of the Tenders to enquire if Lothian/LCB enquire any.

 

[overthewater]

I don't think it's as simple as, hey let's double our frequency and run every bus till midnight, and I'm sure they aren't "proud" either if I'm honest, I'm sure if they had the drivers and resources they would of done more, and even so, who says the West Lothian changes have to be that long of a wait?

I wasn't expecting big improvements but I was expecting some improvements to try aka a stepping stone to bring the network back to the life. Sad truth is the longer this awful network stays in place the harder it will get for Lothian to retain the passengers and attract new ones.

The next service change will most likely be May 26th when the universities finish up, and when there is an early service change it tends to be for reliability with the summer change having more route improvements. I think the reliability changes on routes should hopefully ease the strain on the network, and fix some issues like the Service 2 on the west end being too slack due to the Gyle Centre being cut last summer.

It isn't unlikely for a change to take place when University finishes for the summer, and another once University starts back. (Late May then September). However, this year I wouldn't expect much in either of these changes - just a removal of some extra peak time journeys and some minor tweaks. Surely then something has to improve at Lothian Country? Long term, the present network just isn't enough.

Any updates as to progression with the BZLs at all?

90 days between Changes means the first possible date for West Lothian network to change is 24th June which is right on the nose. Those bus passes have done nothing to help convince teenagers to switch to public transport.

 

[Ding Ding]

Crap and disappointing, if this is the best we can expect for the West Lothian network then Lothian are worse than McGills and there worse then the bad days of First Edinburgh. I think by the time any improvements appear, which now looks like August/September time, they will have chased every bus passengers away. I hope there proud.

Anyone who knows anything about a bus companies ability to increase frequencies, and introduce new services, will know that this takes vehicles to be available, as well as the drivers to operate them. Lothian do not have the spare buses to achieve this, as the delivery of the new electric buses has been delayed. The network in West Lothian will increase when the vehicles become available. As for chasing passengers away, I'd love to know where they will go to achieve their transport needs. The vast majority of bus passengers in West Lothian use buses because they have no alternative means of transport, so they will continue to depend on, and in fact travel by bus. The current network, although far from perfect, is a vast improvement on what was offered by previous companies. Expansion takes time.