Louth Reopening and London Service for Sleaford

[ChrisC]

I was born and bought up in Lincolnshire as well. Within 50m of the junction of the 3 traditional parts of Lincolnshire.

I've always thought you could categorise Lincolnshire's geography into 3 rough areas... Holland + the east edge of kesteven+ the east Lindsey marshes - flat and flat. The rest of Kesteven and going up in to the bottom of Lindsey, gentle rolling landscape, the rest of Lindsey proper hills. The county splits roughly in thirds, so Def can't say majority flat

Large parts of the south and east of Lincolnshire, especially the fens, are exceptionally flat. I also think that there are also far more hilly or gently rolling countryside areas in Lincolnshire than some people realise. The Wolds are the highest with some quite remote villages which often get get completely cut off when there is heavy snowfall. There’s also the Lincoln Edge which runs right down the western side of the county. This forms a line of hills from near where the Trent flows into the Humber north of Scunthorpe right down to Grantham and Stamford. There’s then quite a wide area of gently rolling hills stretching some miles to the east of that edge the whole length of the county.

I just about remember, as a young child, going on holiday by train with my parents from Nottingham Victoria to Mabelthorpe. From what I remember in those days Mabelthorpe was probably a more popular destination than Skegness for people travelling from the mining communities to the north of Nottingham and the Mansfield area. Mabelthorpe was a very busy station on summer Saturdays with a succession of long busy trains from Nottingham and beyond arriving and departing.

 

[adrock1976]

Large parts of the south and east of Lincolnshire, especially the fens, are exceptionally flat. I also think that there are also far more hilly or gently rolling countryside areas in Lincolnshire than some people realise. The Wolds are the highest with some quite remote villages which often get get completely cut off when there is heavy snowfall. There’s also the Lincoln Edge which runs right down the western side of the county. This forms a line of hills from near where the Trent flows into the Humber north of Scunthorpe right down to Grantham and Stamford. There’s then quite a wide area of gently rolling hills stretching some miles to the east of that edge the whole length of the county.

I just about remember, as a young child, going on holiday by train with my parents from Nottingham Victoria to Mabelthorpe. From what I remember in those days Mabelthorpe was probably a more popular destination than Skegness for people travelling from the mining communities to the north of Nottingham and the Mansfield area. Mabelthorpe was a very busy station on summer Saturdays with a succession of long busy trains from Nottingham and beyond arriving and departing.

When I had a quick look at the satellite view on Google Maps, I noticed that the trackbed around Sutton on Sea and Mablethorpe on the former loop line has a lot of obstructions that have been built on.

Also, the former direct route between Boston and Spalding (most of it being a straight route) has been used for the rerouting of the present day A16. Perhaps a bus link integrated with the railway ticketing system and timed to meet trains could be implemented, possibly running Boston - Spalding - March?

 

[ChrisC]

When I had a quick look at the satellite view on Google Maps, I noticed that the trackbed around Sutton on Sea and Mablethorpe on the former loop line has a lot of obstructions that have been built on.

Also, the former direct route between Boston and Spalding (most of it being a straight route) has been used for the rerouting of the present day A16. Perhaps a bus link integrated with the railway ticketing system and timed to meet trains could be implemented, possibly running Boston - Spalding - March?

I think times have changed for places like Mabelthorpe and Sutton in Sea. Peolple still do travel by train from Nottingham to Skegness, even for day trips, and many stay in hotels and boarding houses. Following the closure of the railway Mabelthorpe has become far more a place for people to go on caravan holidays, along with Chapel St. Leonard’s and Ingoldmells. People still flock there in their thousands but pack up their cars to capacity and stay in caravans on large sites almost like holiday camps. Going by public transport with all the luggage just wouldn’t happen like it did 50+ year ago.

 

[Louthbyrail]

But a Louth rail link is a non-starter

And why is a Louth rail link a non starter? Yes, there are obstructions in the way, but it’s NOT IMPOSSIBLE to rebuild the line from a rebuild Firsby Junction north to Louth. I have looked at the Firsby - Louth track bed on Google Satellite View, and the majority of it is clear apart from at Burgh le Marsh, Alford, Legbourne, and of course in the centre of Louth which is mostly built on/over. However, it doesn’t mean to say that A NEW RAIL LINE cannot be built from Firsby Junction going north along a new alignment to a new station on the outskirts of Louth, does it? It’s a bit similar to what the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway are doing/plan to do. Eventually their running line will run for about 8-9 miles north from Holton le Clay to a new station on the outskirts of Louth called Louth North. The new station will be built on the Fairfield Industrial Estate, and some space on there has been put aside for when the line reaches the town. I have been running this campaign for over two years, and since that time several people on my Re-open the East Lincolnshire Railway - Louth to Firsby Facebook Group have been constantly negative by saying that this campaign is a non starter, and it’s built on/over in several places, I already know that, but there ARE OTHER OPTIONS, and it CAN BE DONE! I’m not sure if you’re already aware (you might be, I don’t know), but Network Rail are conducting a new rail study for Lincolnshire, so this will be interesting what they will come up with when the study is complete as I know that the government has asked Network Rail to explore the route to Mablethorpe, and also to see if it is feasible to rebuild/re-open. Personally, I think Mablethorpe should be reconnected back to the rail network, because Skegness is, so why did Mablethorpe ever lose it’s rail link on the 5th October 1970 in the first place?! It’s absolute madness!

 

[Starmill]

And why is a Louth rail link a non starter? Yes, there are obstructions in the way, but it’s NOT IMPOSSIBLE to rebuild the line from a rebuild Firsby Junction north to Louth. I have looked at the Firsby - Louth track bed on Google Satellite View, and the majority of it is clear apart from at Burgh le Marsh, Alford, Legbourne, and of course in the centre of Louth which is mostly built on/over. However, it doesn’t mean to say that A NEW RAIL LINE cannot be built from Firsby Junction going north along a new alignment to a new station on the outskirts of Louth, does it? It’s a bit similar to what the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway are doing/plan to do. Eventually their running line will run for about 8-9 miles north from Holton le Clay to a new station on the outskirts of Louth called Louth North. The new station will be built on the Fairfield Industrial Estate, and some space on there has been put aside for when the line reaches the town. I have been running this campaign for over two years, and since that time several people on my Re-open the East Lincolnshire Railway - Louth to Firsby Facebook Group have been constantly negative by saying that this campaign is a non starter, and it’s built on/over in several places, I already know that, but there ARE OTHER OPTIONS, and it CAN BE DONE! I’m not sure if you’re already aware (you might be, I don’t know), but Network Rail are conducting a new rail study for Lincolnshire, so this will be interesting what they will come up with when the study is complete as I know that the government has asked Network Rail to explore the route to Mablethorpe, and also to see if it is feasible to rebuild/re-open. Personally, I think Mablethorpe should be reconnected back to the rail network, because Skegness is, so why did Mablethorpe ever lose it’s rail link on the 5th October 1970 in the first place?! It’s absolute madness!

Unfortunately there are a whole lot of hoops to jump through before you can justify spending many hundreds of millions of pounds building a new branch line. Sadly "I want a railway because that other town has one" isn't really relevant to that process.

If an English or Welsh project isn't currently preparing a Restoring your Railway business case then I am sorry to say that there is no prospect of the line reopening for the foreseeable future. This is because the government will have received the Strategic Outline Business Case for these by October and will choose from among them for funding the next stage.

 

[Bald Rick]

And why is a Louth rail link a non starter? Yes, there are obstructions in the way, but it’s NOT IMPOSSIBLE to rebuild the line from a rebuild Firsby Junction north to Louth. I have looked at the Firsby - Louth track bed on Google Satellite View, and the majority of it is clear apart from at Burgh le Marsh, Alford, Legbourne, and of course in the centre of Louth which is mostly built on/over. However, it doesn’t mean to say that A NEW RAIL LINE cannot be built from Firsby Junction going north along a new alignment to a new station on the outskirts of Louth, does it? It’s a bit similar to what the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway are doing/plan to do. Eventually their running line will run for about 8-9 miles north from Holton le Clay to a new station on the outskirts of Louth called Louth North. The new station will be built on the Fairfield Industrial Estate, and some space on there has been put aside for when the line reaches the town. I have been running this campaign for over two years, and since that time several people on my Re-open the East Lincolnshire Railway - Louth to Firsby Facebook Group have been constantly negative by saying that this campaign is a non starter, and it’s built on/over in several places, I already know that, but there ARE OTHER OPTIONS, and it CAN BE DONE! I’m not sure if you’re already aware (you might be, I don’t know), but Network Rail are conducting a new rail study for Lincolnshire, so this will be interesting what they will come up with when the study is complete as I know that the government has asked Network Rail to explore the route to Mablethorpe, and also to see if it is feasible to rebuild/re-open. Personally, I think Mablethorpe should be reconnected back to the rail network, because Skegness is, so why did Mablethorpe ever lose it’s rail link on the 5th October 1970 in the first place?! It’s absolute madness!

Leaving aside my personal prejudice that any proposal for new railway and or services that includes statements IN CAPITAL LETTERS for emphasis is automatically considered unworthy….

…there is a clear distinction between what is possible and what is sensible. The former has a bigger population than the latter.

 

[Starmill]

In any case, a faster bus service between Lincoln and Louth would be more useful by far for national connections from Louth than a railway service just to Boston.

 

[A0wen]

And why is a Louth rail link a non starter? Yes, there are obstructions in the way, but it’s NOT IMPOSSIBLE to rebuild the line from a rebuild Firsby Junction north to Louth. I have looked at the Firsby - Louth track bed on Google Satellite View, and the majority of it is clear apart from at Burgh le Marsh, Alford, Legbourne, and of course in the centre of Louth which is mostly built on/over. However, it doesn’t mean to say that A NEW RAIL LINE cannot be built from Firsby Junction going north along a new alignment to a new station on the outskirts of Louth, does it? It’s a bit similar to what the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway are doing/plan to do. Eventually their running line will run for about 8-9 miles north from Holton le Clay to a new station on the outskirts of Louth called Louth North. The new station will be built on the Fairfield Industrial Estate, and some space on there has been put aside for when the line reaches the town. I have been running this campaign for over two years, and since that time several people on my Re-open the East Lincolnshire Railway - Louth to Firsby Facebook Group have been constantly negative by saying that this campaign is a non starter, and it’s built on/over in several places, I already know that, but there ARE OTHER OPTIONS, and it CAN BE DONE! I’m not sure if you’re already aware (you might be, I don’t know), but Network Rail are conducting a new rail study for Lincolnshire, so this will be interesting what they will come up with when the study is complete as I know that the government has asked Network Rail to explore the route to Mablethorpe, and also to see if it is feasible to rebuild/re-open. Personally, I think Mablethorpe should be reconnected back to the rail network, because Skegness is, so why did Mablethorpe ever lose it’s rail link on the 5th October 1970 in the first place?! It’s absolute madness!

Any danger of evidence to support the claim I've put in bold ?

I *very much* doubt the government has made any such request. There is little or no freight opportunity from Mablethorpe and as a place it's population is ~12,000 - in other words almost certainly too small to justify a rail reopening unless there's a planned development of a town of about 40,000 people in the offing....

 

[bradleyd]

Any danger of evidence to support the claim I've put in bold ?

I *very much* doubt the government has made any such request. There is little or no freight opportunity from Mablethorpe and as a place it's population is ~12,000 - in other words almost certainly too small to justify a rail reopening unless there's a planned development of a town of about 40,000 people in the offing....

Could it potentially be related to the possible plans for a nuclear waste site at Theddlethorpe, just north of mablethorpe?

 

[zwk500]

Any danger of evidence to support the claim I've put in bold ?

I *very much* doubt the government has made any such request. There is little or no freight opportunity from Mablethorpe and as a place it's population is ~12,000 - in other words almost certainly too small to justify a rail reopening unless there's a planned development of a town of about 40,000 people in the offing....

Conversely, I would not be at all surprised if the government had asked for a desktop assessment of the line as part of a wider area study. When strategic studies are being done, all sorts of wonderful ideas are put forward at the start, and it lets local councillors/MPs have a bit of local newspaper runtime. It's basically free PR. Now if the Government had asked NR to develop a business case, that would be a very different matter entirely.

 

[class26]

Could it potentially be related to the possible plans for a nuclear waste site at Theddlethorpe, just north of mablethorpe?

Network rail ARE undertaking a rail strategy for Lincolnshire but it is separate to the possible nuclear site near Mablethorpe. I suspect that should the nuclear site go ahead there will be rail link and in which case Mablethorpe MIGHT be able to piggy back onto this but I can`t see any other reopening in Lincs. Perhaps a station or two but that will be the extent.

 

[A0wen]

Network rail ARE undertaking a rail strategy for Lincolnshire but it is separate to the possible nuclear site near Mablethorpe. I suspect that should the nuclear site go ahead there will be rail link and in which case Mablethorpe MIGHT be able to piggy back onto this but I can`t see any other reopening in Lincs. Perhaps a station or two but that will be the extent.

Basically anything to Theddlethorpe would need to be no more than a glorified siding - single track, lowish line speed, capacity for 1 train (look at the link to Dungeness or Sizewell as a comparison) - in other words low cost. So where would you build such a link from? Logical answer would be "where's the closest railhead" - as it happens both Grimsby and Firsby are about the same distance.

Looking at a map, you wouldn't go anywhere near Louth or Mablethorpe for such a line, instead you'd probably look at the old formation from Firsby to the Alford area and then head directly North West to Theddlethorpe through open countryside - probably cheapest, no need to run trains of nuclear waste through seaside towns.

 

[class26]

Basically anything to Theddlethorpe would need to be no more than a glorified siding - single track, lowish line speed, capacity for 1 train (look at the link to Dungeness or Sizewell as a comparison) - in other words low cost. So where would you build such a link from? Logical answer would be "where's the closest railhead" - as it happens both Grimsby and Firsby are about the same distance.

Looking at a map, you wouldn't go anywhere near Louth or Mablethorpe for such a line, instead you'd probably look at the old formation from Firsby to the Alford area and then head directly North West to Theddlethorpe through open countryside - probably cheapest, no need to run trains of nuclear waste through seaside towns.

I wouldn`t disagree with anything you say but if a new formation in places has to be built that means SOME of the costs could be covered by the nuclear leaving less to be covered IF, and only if it was deemed to be a good idea to build a link to Mablethorpe. i very much doubt this will happen though as Skegness, a large town has very low pax figures in the winter

 

[mm333]

From the Radioactive Waste Management initial evaluation report: https://theddlethorpe.workinginpart...ent/uploads/2021/10/RWM_Theddlethorpe_IER.pdf

Lincolnshire contains some very capable railways which are well connected to both the strategic railway network and established ports. However, railway connectivity to the district of East Lindsey is limited, particularly north of Skegness. The Grantham to Skegness line is classified as a rural route and is primarily a passenger service with limited freight utilisation. There may be opportunities to reinstate parts of historic railway lines which serviced the wider East Lindsey Area, such as the Mablethorpe loop, to facilitate a GDF. East Lindsey District Council have recently applied to the Department of Transport for a £50,000 feasibility study grant under the ‘Restoring Your Railway Fund’. This study would include an assessment of two railway lines which would be of particular interest to supporting a GDF project, namely the East Lincolnshire Line (Grimsby - Louth - Alford – Boston) and also the Mablethorpe loop line (Louth - Grimoldby - Mablethorpe - Sutton-on-Sea - Mumby Road – Willoughby).

 

[Bald Rick]

From the Radioactive Waste Management initial evaluation report: https://theddlethorpe.workinginpart...ent/uploads/2021/10/RWM_Theddlethorpe_IER.pdf….

East Lindsey District Council have recently applied to the Department of Transport for a £50,000 feasibility study grant under the ‘Restoring Your Railway Fund’. This study would include an assessment of two railway lines which would be of particular interest to supporting a GDF project, namely the East Lincolnshire Line (Grimsby - Louth - Alford – Boston) and also the Mablethorpe loop line (Louth - Grimoldby - Mablethorpe - Sutton-on-Sea - Mumby Road – Willoughby).

indeed, and it was not successful in obtaining the funding.