LUL All Grades Strike

[Snow1964]

As this is an all grades strike, it is quite interesting how selective data is being used by some. As an example there has been talk of about 500 customer service roles being not replaced.

However it seems only 360 (full time equivalent) staff have been cut overall since pre pandemic, and 300 extra NPL and agency staff have been added. (Period 11 finance report, pack page 40). So unless my maths is dreadful there are only 60 less people overall, not 500 (although might be 500 with specific job title)

Staff
TfL staff levels are 360 lower than pre-pandemic levels. We have increased staff levels this year by around 350 FTE, following the introduction of Northern Line Extension operations, as well as ramping up preparations for Elizabeth line services.
Permanent employee numbers are broadly in line with last year, as we face recruitment and retention challenges as a result of funding uncertainty. Agency and NPL staff have increased by over 300, partly a result of labour market pressures, but also giving the organisation greater flexibility in the face of continued funding uncertainty.

https://board.tfl.gov.uk/documents/g651/Public%20reports%20pack%20Wednesday%2009-Mar-2022%2010.00%20Finance%20Committee.pdf?T=10

 

[Mawkie]

As this is an all grades strike, it is quite interesting how selective data is being used by some. As an example there has been talk of about 500 customer service roles being not replaced.

However it seems only 360 (full time equivalent) staff have been cut overall since pre pandemic, and 300 extra NPL and agency staff have been added. (Period 11 finance report, pack page 40). So unless my maths is dreadful there are only 60 less people overall, not 500 (although might be 500 with specific job title)

I'm confused by this statement. London Underground do not use agency staff for customer service work. LU's own documents are proposing a headcount reduction of 600 in customer service numbers - "mainly CSAs" I think was the phrase.

Is the above link something to do with another part of TfL? Perhaps TfL Rail?

 

[Mojo]

I'm confused by this statement. London Underground do not use agency staff for customer service work. LU's own documents are proposing a headcount reduction of 600 in customer service numbers - "mainly CSAs" I think was the phrase.

Is the above link something to do with another part of TfL? Perhaps TfL Rail?

Exactly, the report refers to TfL as a whole. The “NPL and agency staff” will include people across a wide range of roles in TfL such as project planners, consultants, office staff, those brought in to facilitate Covid testing of staff, and similar, and not frontline Customer service staff on LU.

 

[Taunton]

Anyone with any sense can read a poster or check a website.

Quick lunchtime poll around the Central London office here showed a majority who "had no sense" and were unaware of the continuing shutdown. There are also a number who set out, but turned back.

I'll let the HR department know of all these highly-paid, obviously imposters, for having no ability or sense.

 

[43066]

Quick lunchtime poll around the Central London office here showed a majority who "had no sense" and were unaware of the continuing shutdown. There are also a number who set out, but turned back.

I'll let the HR department know of all these highly-paid, obviously imposters, for having no ability or sense.

You work with highly paid people who can’t use the internet and don’t bother to read notices?

What do you do on the railway ?

 

[londonboi]

It's apparent how poor TfL information is. Their statement in the media is that, while Underground lines in central London are closed, the DLR is "operating normally". Go to the detailed TfL website status page and they say DLR is suspended between Shadwell and its key central station, Bank, which is of course managed by the Underground. So which one is it ...

Just so you are aware and have been informed.

There is a strike tomorrow or Thursday and on Friday you can expect the same disruption in the morning service as the strike will have a knock on effect.

This information now clearly available as well on the TfL website should you require it.

 

[Falcon1200]

I’m not sure how TfL work, but London Underground do not give confirmation that it is safe to access the track over the telephone. This can only be confirmed face-to-face with staff on site.

Interesting. How does that work when an incident occurs remote from a station, not quite as likely as on Network Rail but still perfectly possible on the open air sections of the Underground ?

 

[Mojo]

Interesting. How does that work when an incident occurs remote from a station, not quite as likely as on Network Rail but still perfectly possible on the open air sections of the Underground ?

They would either access from the nearest station, at which point in most cases staff would be present, or they would wait for a member of staff to arrive who would probably have a similar ETA to emergency services.

 

[Snow1964]

Quick lunchtime poll around the Central London office here showed a majority who "had no sense" and were unaware of the continuing shutdown. There are also a number who set out, but turned back.

I'll let the HR department know of all these highly-paid, obviously imposters, for having no ability or sense.

The strike was advertised as 00:01 to 23:59 on 1st and 3rd

Nowhere in TfL press release did it say anything like shifts starting during that time, therefore most people would expect staff to return at midnight, and a full service to resume as normal at 5 or 6am

I think it appears that TfL staff have no sense, rather than travelling public if they don’t understand the times RMT quote and unofficially extended the shutdown

Londoners urged to plan for disrupted or cancelled services on the Tube

Londoners urged to plan for disrupted or cancelled services on the Tube

tfl.gov.uk

So TfL didn’t advertise it correctly as RMT says booking on between those times. Not that there are very many shifts at 7am which booked on before midnight, so service should have been up and running (or at least majority running) much earlier than it did.

Tube strike goes ahead next week

LONDON TRANSPORT UNION RMT confirmed that members will be taking strike action next week as planned over LU’s continuing refusal to give assurances on jobs, pensions and working conditions in the midst of an on-going financial crisis driven by central Government. The union says that the Mayor...

www.rmt.org.uk

 

[dk1]

The strike was advertised as 00:01 to 23:59 on 1st and 3rd

Nowhere in TfL press release did it say anything like shifts starting during that time, therefore most people would expect staff to return at midnight, and a full service to resume as normal at 5 or 6am

I think it appears that TfL staff have no sense, rather than travelling public if they don’t understand the times RMT quote and unofficially extended the shutdown

But it states…

On the days after strikes expect:

Severe disruption across all Tube lines in the morning
No service expected before 08:00

 

[Snow1964]

But it states…

On the days after strikes expect:

Severe disruption across all Tube lines in the morning
No service expected before 08:00

Which implies if you travel after 8am there will be a service (even if infrequent), not it might resume sometime nearer 9 or 10am

 

[dk1]

Which implies if you travel after 8am there will be a service, not it might resume sometime nearer 9 or 10am

I’d have to disagree. I read that as after 08:00 so could be 09:00 as severe disruption is to be expected.

 

[Taunton]

I did notice that, after adverse media comment (so presumably the radio and newspaper journalists who didn't understand this had 'no sense' either), the messages had been changed SUBSTANTIALLY between morning and evening, about what now might happen on Friday.

On the DLR, for example, there were no notices or messages whatsoever this morning until approaching Canary Wharf interchange when there was a bland message that there was no Jubilee Line at Canary Wharf. Asking the train operator if it was just that one station or the whole line, the response was that was all they had been given, from DLR control, no more.

By the evening there are lengthy continuous PA announcements on the DLR about the Underground on Thursday and into all morning (now) on Friday.

 

[43066]

Which implies if you travel after 8am there will be a service, not it might resume sometime nearer 9 or 10am

A service “with severe disruption in the morning”. Similar wording on various posters I’ve seen around the network.

It really isn’t rocket science. It has been perfectly obvious for days to anyone who bothered to look in the obvious places that there would be major disruption continuing throughout today’s morning peak.

(so presumably the radio and newspaper journalists who didn't understand this had 'no sense' either),

Quite possibly not. Is that so surprising?!

 

[Mawkie]

A service “with severe disruption in the morning”. Similar wording on various posters I’ve seen around the network.

Like this one suggesting services would not return to normal until "late morning" on Wednesday and Friday?

 

[Bikeman78]

I think what was clearly illustrated yesterday was that the notion that everyone now works from home is complete nonsense.

The buses were getting hammered. Little chance of getting on at Liverpool Street. I walked to the stop before and got on there, as did some of the other more switched on people. Still took 90 minutes to do five miles. Some people reckoned they had been waiting two hours. I'd have given up and walked long before that. If I'm ever in London on a strike day again then I'll just walk straight away.

 

[bramling]

Makes a mockery of comments and headlines made in the media and social media that it’s drivers causing all the misery. My depot was full of drivers yesterday but the depot and control room were out never mind station staff and that meant not a single train was running.

But hey, drivers on £100k+ are the problem

Technology and automation is a double-edged sword. At least one Tube line was prevented from running on Tuesday not through lack of drivers, but because one particular single-person function was uncovered. Ironically automation actually makes this sort of thing much more likely, just as a handful of software programmers can nowadays name their price when it comes to supporting computerised signalling systems. Naturally it’s cheaper to “buy off” a few technical staff than it is a few hundred drivers.

Much easier to blame those greedy drivers of course, but to do so is simply exposing ignorance on the subject in my view.

Where drivers don’t really help themselves is certain elements of attitude and behaviour which is a problem with *some* drivers. But even this can be at least to some extent blamed on LU’s confrontational management style which sets a poor example to everyone, and now we have the government playing the same games. No wonder there are big issues within TFL.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Presumably we wish, therefore, to tell the thousands who turned up at the London termini this morning (Liverpool Street and Kings Cross I saw) who had no idea of the continuing strike, that they had no sense.

It seems clear that many people these days neither listen to nor read the news on local radio/tv, nor look at relevant news websites, not read posters at stations, nor read local/regional newspapers, etc etc. If people choose to ignore mainstream sources of information - which I think must be the only reason why people were turning up at stations and being surprised - what can TfL do? Knock on everyone's door telling them to put down their social media addiction for 5 minutes and open their eyes and ears? I'm not a tube commuter, but for the last week or so I reckon I've had information about the strikes on Tuesday and Thursday (and indeed about Wednesday and Friday mornings) in front of me 50 times - it's been everywhere. I've felt swamped by the repeated information.

 

[Snow1964]

Like this one suggesting services would not return to normal until "late morning" on Wednesday and Friday?

You still don’t get it

It says disrupted in morning peak (which is usually defined as 7-10am), with normal service by late morning.

It does NOT say, no service at all until about 9am.

Everyone knows that most of tube is shut from about 1am-5am, so majority of staff working morning peak will not have booked on before midnight, therefore would expect it to be virtually fully staffed.

Exactly what grade is still working until late morning that would have been scheduled to book on before midnight, no wonder posters seem overly cautious and scaremongeringly unrealistic.

 

[Taunton]

Like this one suggesting services would not return to normal until "late morning" on Wednesday and Friday?

That poster turned up during Wednesday. They were all around by the evening. There were none such displayed in the early morning shutdown. At Liverpool Street station the Bostwick gates were across, there were NO such posters displayed from inside at all, and a main station member of staff was having to manage the crowd, saying they had no information on when it might start. Just like the DLR operator said they had no information which I described above.

Meanwhile, just look at what the BBC mainstream website says about today, Thursday. No services until 23.59. That's mainstream media who must have got such precision straight from TfL (or RMT).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-london-60584641

 

[43066]

It seems clear that many people these days neither listen to nor read the news on local radio/tv, nor look at relevant news websites, not read posters at stations, nor read local/regional newspapers, etc etc. If people choose to ignore mainstream sources of information - which I think must be the only reason why people were turning up at stations and being surprised - what can TfL do? Knock on everyone's door telling them to put down their social media addiction for 5 minutes and open their eyes and ears? I'm not a tube commuter, but for the last week or so I reckon I've had information about the strikes on Tuesday and Thursday (and indeed about Wednesday and Friday mornings) in front of me 50 times - it's been everywhere. I've felt swamped by the repeated information.

Well quite.

 

[endicomark69@g]

It seems a couple of you wish to quibble about the fact you don't feel the information given out by TfL and anyone else was sufficient. And do so repeated to make some kind of bash at who exactly? TfL as a whole? Those responsible for the Strike? The Media?

Arguing the toss about "The poster didn't say that!" Or "it was changed!" Seems to hair-splitting to a pointless degree. There was info EVERYWHERE for anyone that could be arsed to keep an eye open or listen. It's been on every London related media for days - including the late start on the days after.

Literally the only excuse for not being aware would be those that travel from so far out of London that they won't see or pick up South East UK news - even then if you're travelling into London it's reasonable to expect anyone making that kind of commute would satisfy themselves through their own efforts that travel would be safe and available before starting out.

Anyone not doing that.......? Well what did you really expect.

Oh, and three Lines had services by 7AM yesterday (The Vic was certainly one of them) so blanket messaging "nothing before 9 so stay away!" Would have been:

1. Wrong

2. Stupid.

As with a lot in life, when operating is put under very adverse conditions one-size isn't always going to be appropriate for fitting all. Strikes on the Tube are very much movable feasts (some limited efforts at running DO happen) - declaring your right to "absolute certainty" without taking your share of responsibility for knowing the score.......well, see 1 & 2 above.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Exactly what grade is still working until late morning that would have been scheduled to book on before midnight, no wonder posters seem overly cautious and scaremongeringly unrealistic.

If it's anything like the TOCs, Control Room staff could be doing 12 hour shifts from 0700 - 1900 and 1900 - 0700, or possibly 8 hour shifts such as 0600 - 1400, 1400 - 2200 and 2200 - 0600.

 

[Mawkie]

You still don’t get it

Exactly what grade is still working until late morning that would have been scheduled to book on before midnight, no wonder posters seem overly cautious and scaremongeringly unrealistic.

I can be quite obtuse, so sometimes I don't get it, but it seems to me that the vast majority of people understood the messaging given around the strike action on the days following each strike day.

As to your second point - depot shunters book on at 1900hrs and book off at 0700hrs. So they would not have booked on at 1900hrs on strike day and as such most trains are then not prepped or in position for their morning run-out. When the new crew booked on at 0700hrs on Wednesday, then service begins, albeit slowly.

As this is an all grades strike (including depot staff) extending the strike times to 2359hrs offers 4 days of disruption for 2 days of action.

 

[Mojo]

Exactly what grade is still working until late morning that would have been scheduled to book on before midnight, no wonder posters seem overly cautious and scaremongeringly unrealistic.

It isn’t about who would be working late morning booking on before midnight. As you quite rightly surmise, the answer would be “no-one,” as night shifts would have finished by 7a.m. The problem being that all the work done by night turns in order to get the service ready would not have been done, largely being that trains would still be in depots until early turn signallers, depot shutters and so on are booked on. Whilst in the grand scheme of things the number of night turns is smaller in grades such as Train Operator and CSA, those that are largely responsible for allowing trains to run, such as signallers, depot shunters and station supervisors/managers, do work nights.

 

[theking]

I love the fact the daily mail have an article that says ATO can make strikes a thing of the past, they haven't got a clue

On another note this is another fail on khan's record and to think before he got elected he said no days of strike under him, now he has more strike days than both Ken and Boris combined.

 

[Horizon22]

Sorry, the press release is not "quite clear". It is headlined



and that's it. Anything about the following mornings is buried down in the text. That is not "quite clear". And of course, being a press release, the idea is the media will take the relevant bits, the headline, and pass them on. Which was done. Not necessarily what was buried down in paragraph 7 of the sub-text.

There was also nothing apparent on the TfL service web page yesterday about things continuing.

To plagiarise Roger Ford's 10th Law, ‘If something has to be claimed as "quite clear", it almost certainly wasn’t’.

Not sure what you were checking as they mentioned explicitly in several areas (online, apps, physical posters) that Wednesday morning and Friday morning would be disrupted. On posters it was two separate boxes, immediately adjacent to each other. I've had people ask me about it. I would agree that the status updates doesn't seem to be correct for Friday though currently.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I caught the last Overground train to call at Stonebridge Park towards Euston this evening, the 18:29, which was rammed inside. Some seemed surprised when the driver announced that 'as it is now past six-thirty, no Underground stations will be served, although we will still be going to Euston'. Cue lots of confused faces around me! We did stop at Harlesden but I don't know if people alighting there were able to exit the station. One assumes common sense prevailed and station staff stayed a few minutes to let people out...

 

[Mojo]

I caught the last Overground train to call at Stonebridge Park towards Euston this evening, the 18:29, which was rammed inside. Some seemed surprised when the driver announced that 'as it is now past six-thirty, no Underground stations will be served, although we will still be going to Euston'. Cue lots of confused faces around me! We did stop at Harlesden but I don't know if people alighting there were able to exit the station. One assumes common sense prevailed and station staff stayed a few minutes to let people out...

Strange. Of course none of these stations are required to be staffed, with the exception of Wembley Central, in order for trains to stop, indeed, some of them would have been unstaffed since the night turns finished at 07.00 this morning and I'd also assume that some are staffed right now.

 

[Kite159]

Strange. Of course none of these stations are required to be staffed, with the exception of Wembley Central, in order for trains to stop, indeed, some of them would have been unstaffed since the night turns finished at 07.00 this morning and I'd also assume that some are staffed right now.

I noticed on Tuesday where the Overground services were skipping Harrow & Wealdstone, London Northwestern services seemed to be still calling there. Which seemed strange as surely if the station is safe enough for one TOC to call on the AC lines, surely its safe enough for the DC line trains to call.