Lumo - new Open Access operator on the East Coast Main Line

[TheBigD]

Okay, I don't know where I got the 406 from apologies, that should've been 400 (the figure they quote on their website).

But on triple checking figures this time:

A - 56 including 2 tip-up. 2 wheelchairs
B through D - 94
E - 60 or 62 in total adding the additional 2 tip-up.

That's 400 in total.

That's from their own seating plan.

Coach A is definitely 52 seats. 13 rows of seats, 4 to a row = 52 seats. Plus the 2 tip up seats and the 2 wheelchairs.

 

[hexagon789]

Coach A is definitely 52 seats. 13 rows of seats, 4 to a row = 52 seats. Plus the 2 tip up seats and the 2 wheelchairs.

Interesting, the seating plan says 56 including the tip-up unless the also count the wheelchair spaces as seats perhaps?

 

[och aye]

The large luggage bags look like they may be an issue if Lumo becomes a popular service. Perhaps they may go down the low cost airline route and charge people for storing large luggage, which may of course discourage people from booking with them and use LNER or fly instead. Alternatively take out the windowless seats and replace with more luggage capacity, but then lowering their revenues, or here's a leftfield idea add a luggage carriage and carry up some Amazon parcels for some extra revenue.

 

[TheBigD]

The large luggage bags look like they may be an issue if Lumo becomes a popular service. Perhaps they may go down the low cost airline route and charge people for storing large luggage, which may of course discourage people from booking with them and use LNER or fly instead. Alternatively take out the windowless seats and replace with more luggage capacity, but then lowering their revenues, or here's a leftfield idea add a luggage carriage and carry up some Amazon parcels for some extra revenue.

We used to that 60 odd years ago...

page-02

The history of Diesel Multiple Units (DMUs / railcars) in Britain.

www.railcar.co.uk

 

[ainsworth74]

Does Lumo not have luggage restrictions on its tickets, restricting people to an airline size carryon unless they pay extra? Or am I mistaken?

I don't believe they do (beyond the usual NRCoT limits anyway). I believe that idea might have been one of the ones bandied around and spread by some people who assumed they were going to be very radically different and much more low cost airline like than was actually ever likely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't believe they do (beyond the usual NRCoT limits anyway). I believe that idea might have been one of the ones bandied around and spread by some people who assumed they were going to be very radically different and much more low cost airline like than was actually ever likely.

Possibly based on e.g. Ouigo being genuinely like that?

 

[cambsy]

Just checked Lumo website, and surprised to see £19.90 tickets available for tomorrow, on the 10.45 Kings Cross-Edinburgh, and 16.12 Edinburgh-Kings cross, so cheap day out to Edinburgh, possible tomorrow. I imagine Wednesdays must be fairly quiet, for Lumo?.

 

[hexagon789]

Just checked Lumo website, and surprised to see £19.90 tickets available for tomorrow, on the 10.45 Kings Cross-Edinburgh, and 16.12 Edinburgh-Kings cross, so cheap day out to Edinburgh, possible tomorrow. I imagine Wednesdays must be fairly quiet, for Lumo?.

I understand that finding these fares midweek is relatively easy, finding them at weekends practically impossible.

But that's what you'd expect really, and LUMO will of course want to fill any empty seats as much as possible and those empty seats are now the hype as died down going to be more likely on a Wednesday morning than a Sunday afternoon.

Nevertheless, I'm quite pleased that the £19.90 can still be found at all, even if it's on more limited days now it's still quite good.

 

[backontrack]

I'm on the early southbound service today. We've left bang on time.

I have to admit, hearing "this is the nine-eleven train" repeatedly announced onboard at Waverley...it's a little strange. Might be a good thing to retime it by a minute, if at all possible.

First impressions are good - nice seats, I like the dimmable reading light, train feels nice and spacious. Lack of luggage space might be the sole concern - if they do succeed then ordering sixth carriages, and then turning the windowless seats into luggage racks, might be a wise idea.

LumoEats food just arrived! Member of staff explained that they'd popped a wooden spoon in as they're out of forks - struck me as a kind thing to do. There were two as well in case I dropped one.

Next stop Morpeth.

 

[Starmill]

I have to admit, hearing "this is the nine-eleven train" repeatedly announced onboard at Waverley...it's a little strange. Might be a good thing to retime it by a minute, if at all possible.

Are you suggesting that all trains should have their departure times changed uf they're 0911?

 

[backontrack]

Are you suggesting that all trains should have their departure times changed uf they're 0911?

Not at all, although when you're a budding new operator with only have a couple of departures a day...

I just found it a little odd and was commenting on that. That's all there is. Lumo had more announcements at departure than many operators - at LNER you'd only get one departure announcement mentioning the time, but Lumo had several restating "this is the 9:11 train". I'm sure regular pax will get used to it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it's causing anyone upset, announcing it as "eleven minutes past nine" on manual announcements would solve it.

With an autoannouncer, "oh nine" <pause> "eleven" doesn't emphasize it the same way.

 

[backontrack]

If it's causing anyone upset, announcing it as "eleven minutes past nine" on manual announcements would solve it.

With an autoannouncer, "oh nine" <pause> "eleven" doesn't emphasize it the same way.

I mean they probably needn't do anything to be honest - a few wags will tweet about it, but most people won't really care. "Departing at eleven past nine" has a nice ring to it but doesn't have the same international clarity as 9:11.

 

[Starmill]

If it's causing anyone upset, announcing it as "eleven minutes past nine" on manual announcements would solve it.

With an autoannouncer, "oh nine" <pause> "eleven" doesn't emphasize it the same way.

I think that your latter suggestion is probably the most common spoken format found on railways here I'd say? So perhaps it should just say that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2021 ==

The ticket machines at Newcastle are unable to sell a ticket to Morpeth. Perhaps I ought not to be too shocked that the industry cannot get something as basic as this right but I'm still very disappointed. I asked for help from a member of staff who had a couple of goes before concluding that the ticket isn't available from the machines and referred me to the ticket office. The ticket office were able to sell the correct ticket.

The price is actually shown:



But it will not allow it to be brought bringing up a reservation error:



Reservations aren't permitted for Newcastle to Morpeth or vv on Lumo services however.

 

[jumble]

Mod note: To help keep the discussion tidy, we've split off all post-launch discussion from this thread into the one you're looking at now. Please continue to use this thread for general Lumo discussion, noting that in-depth discussion about rolling stock has its own thread here.

Website is up! https://www.lumo.co.uk/

Does anyone agree with me that Lumo seem to have dropped a gigantic financial clanger?
I think that selling so many cheap advance tickets that you are booked solid for 3 months or so is about as sensible as going outside and dropping £50.00 notes down the nearest drain
(Someone else may have suggested this I have not read over 1000 posts)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does anyone agree with me that Lumo seem to have dropped a gigantic financial clanger?
I think that selling so many cheap advance tickets that you are booked solid for 3 months or so is about as sensible as going outside and dropping £50.00 notes down the nearest drain
(Someone else may have suggested this I have not read over 1000 posts)

Is it not caused a "loss leader"? Start off cheap and nudge prices up, and hopefully people will stick around.

 

[centro-323]

Does anyone agree with me that Lumo seem to have dropped a gigantic financial clanger?
I think that selling so many cheap advance tickets that you are booked solid for 3 months or so is about as sensible as going outside and dropping £50.00 notes down the nearest drain
(Someone else may have suggested this I have not read over 1000 posts)

They're not booked solid though. You can still get a £19.90 ticket to Edinburgh on the 1045 from London tomorrow.

 

[Bald Rick]

Does anyone agree with me that Lumo seem to have dropped a gigantic financial clanger?
I think that selling so many cheap advance tickets that you are booked solid for 3 months or so is about as sensible as going outside and dropping £50.00 notes down the nearest drain
(Someone else may have suggested this I have not read over 1000 posts)

But a fantastic way to gain a lot of free publicity, and build a large database of customers’ details, which will deliver repeat custom. Which, ultimately, is what is needed to make it financially sustainable.

 

[Starmill]

But a fantastic way to gain a lot of free publicity, and build a large database of customers’ details, which will deliver repeat custom. Which, ultimately, is what is needed to make it financially sustainable.

In any case, as others have said, they're actually not booked up completely to and from London / Stevenage anyway. The Lumo Anytime fare is still highly competitive with LNER's Advance fares at similar times. There is lots of availability for non London / Stevenage journeys.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A seat selector would be a worthwhile addition to their site - they could even charge a couple of quid for it, so it would be an additional income stream. (Yes, you could use Trainsplit, but most people won't). Their seat map shows the actual window positions so is much more valuable than the ones that don't.

The mind really boggles as to why Trainline doesn't have one, indeed - the income stream if it cost say £2 would be huge.

 

[DJS76]

I mentioned on here previously that I've booked to travel to Edinburgh later this month. Recently discovered that my seats were the windowless ones at the end of carriage D which I'm not happy about so I contacted Lumo saying that I don't wish to change my booking as I still intend to travel but would like to change my seat. It was almost a flat refusal saying they don't offer this service. I know the seats were cheap but I don't fancy staring at a wall for 4.5 hours, it's my wife's first time travelling to Scotland by train as she prefers the plane. I'll just have to hope there are some spare seats somewhere we can move to!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I mentioned on here previously that I've booked to travel to Edinburgh later this month. Recently discovered that my seats were the windowless ones at the end of carriage D which I'm not happy about so I contacted Lumo saying that I don't wish to change my booking as I still intend to travel but would like to change my seat. It was almost a flat refusal saying they don't offer this service. I know the seats were cheap but I don't fancy staring at a wall for 4.5 hours, it's my wife's first time travelling to Scotland by train as she prefers the plane. I'll just have to hope there are some spare seats somewhere we can move to!

The mind boggles as to why they don't have a chargeable seat selector, it would be a decent income stream.

 

[Watershed]

I mentioned on here previously that I've booked to travel to Edinburgh later this month. Recently discovered that my seats were the windowless ones at the end of carriage D which I'm not happy about so I contacted Lumo saying that I don't wish to change my booking as I still intend to travel but would like to change my seat. It was almost a flat refusal saying they don't offer this service. I know the seats were cheap but I don't fancy staring at a wall for 4.5 hours, it's my wife's first time travelling to Scotland by train as she prefers the plane. I'll just have to hope there are some spare seats somewhere we can move to!

Just sit in coach E, plenty of unreserved seats available there.

 

[Grumpy Git]

The mind boggles as to why they don't have a chargeable seat selector, it would be a decent income stream.

Once went into the Euston travel centre to reserve a seat on a EUS-LIV Avanti as I already had the ticket. Asked for a window, table & facing and got a window, airline, backwards facing.

1 out of 3 is bad enough, but it was a seat without a window at all!

 

[Kite159]

Once went into the Euston travel centre to reserve a seat on a EUS-LIV Avanti as I already had the ticket. Asked for a window, table & facing and got a window, airline, backwards facing.

1 out of 3 is bad enough, but it was a seat without a window at all!

Well 2 out of 3 because those airline seats have fold-down tables which in the eyes of Avanti count as a "table"

The mind boggles as to why they don't have a chargeable seat selector, it would be a decent income stream.

Don't give them any ideas, as most likely it won't be Lumo which introduces paid for seat selection but LNER. You want a seat with a window at a table, that will be an extra £10 please. Please note if you do not sit in your assigned seat you will be treated as not having a valid ticket and will be charged £200+.

 

[Halish Railway]

The mind boggles as to why they don't have a chargeable seat selector, it would be a decent income stream.

But how would this be enforced? It’s surely within a passenger’s rights to sit in a vacant seat that they determine to be better than the one reserved for them (Unless whether this right exists is down to the choice of the operator). Would the guard, cough… sorry, ambassador fine them for not paying the upgrade to a desirable seat? I thought that the whole point of Lumo was that everyone would be getting the same experience onboard a single class train.

 

[Starmill]

But how would this be enforced? It’s surely within a passenger’s rights to sit in a vacant seat that they determine to be better than the one reserved for them (Unless whether this right exists is down to the choice of the operator). Would the guard, cough… sorry, ambassador fine them for not paying the upgrade to a desirable seat? I thought that the whole point of Lumo was that everyone would be getting the same experience onboard a single class train.

Depends whether they're charging for reservation or for specific seat attributes themselves. If it's £1 to guarantee your choice vs free on the train if you get to an unreserved seat first, many people will pay the £1.

 

[Northern_guard]

This is Lumo, the company that got its paths on the basis that it was really getting passengers off the airlines between London and Edinburgh, that we're talking about, isn't it? So why would passengers using them be expected to know about how rail fares work.

The same Lumo that tipped its passengers out at Newcastle when they wanted to go Edinburgh earlier on and started the return working there, presumably with the idea that Edinburgh punters make their own way in between. Now, I know the train was very late, but if you're competing with the airlines, it's not great. Even Mr O'Leary doesn't make a habit of terminating short and kicking the punters off.

But but but, they have comfier seats?

 

[yorkie]

I mentioned on here previously that I've booked to travel to Edinburgh later this month. Recently discovered that my seats were the windowless ones at the end of carriage D which I'm not happy about so I contacted Lumo saying that I don't wish to change my booking as I still intend to travel but would like to change my seat. It was almost a flat refusal saying they don't offer this service. I know the seats were cheap but I don't fancy staring at a wall for 4.5 hours, it's my wife's first time travelling to Scotland by train as she prefers the plane. I'll just have to hope there are some spare seats somewhere we can move to!

Once went into the Euston travel centre to reserve a seat on a EUS-LIV Avanti as I already had the ticket. Asked for a window, table & facing and got a window, airline, backwards facing.

1 out of 3 is bad enough, but it was a seat without a window at all!

The solution is book through Trainsplit, which has a seat selector.

Perhaps soemone can supply a document showing the seat layout and which seats have a poor view?

The best I found so far is at https://economyclassandbeyond.board...competitor/screenshot-2021-09-07-at-00-48-46/ but this is very blurry!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Nov 2021 ==

The mind boggles as to why they don't have a chargeable seat selector, it would be a decent income stream.

Feel free to post this as a suggestion in the appropriate forum section (or use this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/how-to-make-the-intercity-fare-system-better.224368/ where someone has suggested it as a part of a series of suggestions to make rail travel more like air travel!)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Nov 2021 ==

A seat selector would be a worthwhile addition to their site...

Lumo are unlikely to add this to their own website, but we don't need them to! All we need is a PDF of the seating layout and we can pick the best seats using Trainsplit (and not pay any fee to do so)

 

[Mally66]

The LumoEats thing could be quite innovative. Suggests you will be able to pre-order hot food from M&S and other partners to be delivered to your seat, as well as a traditional trolley service. I've long thought that TOC should try to team up with outfits like Leon to serve tasty meals instead of soggy microwaved bacon rolls etc.

Innovative idea, getting high street branded goods onto the train. M&S and yes SSP offerings too. I'm just envisaging the Lumo catering staff running around the station concourse (Supermarket Sweep Style) with their shopping trolley collecting orders from outlets for their designated train. (Don't forget Dales Shopping List)