Manchester Metrolink master thread

[martin2345uk]

Oh and any "unopened stations" will be on a geographically separate line, there are currently no unopened stations on the working line to Oldham Mumps.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Oldham Mumps will be moved across to the other end of the roundabout and the line will be diverted through the town centre, so the existing Oldham Mumps station, as well as the line between the new Oldham Mumps station and near to the old Oldham Werneth station will be redundant once the Oldham town centre line opens.

When the new line through Oldham Town Centre is built (the divergence area is already under groundwork construction), there will be brand-new stations at Westwood, Oldham King Street, Oldham Central and the newly-sited Oldham Mumps (as stated above)

In between Milnrow and Rochdale, new stations will be built at Kingsway Business Park and Newbold which will be brand-new stations, in addition to those at Rochdale Railway Station and Rochdale Town Centre.

 

[Class377/5]

And may I present the link between the Atherton line and Metrolink for te proposed tram/train diesel/electric service and the 3CC.


Options for Future Development of the Atherton Line by Sparkyscrum, on Flickr


**EDIT**

After reading the report the idea of tram/trains to Wigan via Atherton is ruled out as it doesn't provide enough benefits. The map above is only one of the three options they produced.

See full report here...

http://sdrv.ms/NwvPfl

 

[futureA]

Today is Metrolink's 20th birthday. And to celebrate, all of the remaining T68 trams will be withdrawn by 2014 and replaced by more M5000's. This should cure many of the systems reliability problems.

Source

 

[PR1Berske]

And may I present the link between the Atherton line and Metrolink for te proposed tram/train diesel/electric service and the 3CC.


Options for Future Development of the Atherton Line by Sparkyscrum, on Flickr


**EDIT**

After reading the report the idea of tram/trains to Wigan via Atherton is ruled out as it doesn't provide enough benefits. The map above is only one of the three options they produced.

See full report here...

http://sdrv.ms/NwvPfl

So there goes the Leigh link too, then.

 

[WatcherZero]

The report is five years old and the economics have changed quite fundamentally since it was written, for example the report concludes that operating a sunday service on the Atherton line wouldnt reach the governments minimum 1.5 bcr. That service started two years ago.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So there goes the Leigh link too, then.

There is a running thread on the Leigh Guided Busway and preliminary groundworks are currently under way this month. Having decided on this mode of transport, TfGM are not likely to also run a Metrolink service to and from Leigh.

 

[PR1Berske]

There is a running thread on the Leigh Guided Busway and preliminary groundworks are currently under way this month. Having decided on this mode of transport, TfGM are not likely to also run a Metrolink service to and from Leigh.

Very short sighted of them.

 

[tbtc]

Today is Metrolink's 20th birthday. And to celebrate, all of the remaining T68 trams will be withdrawn by 2014 and replaced by more M5000's. This should cure many of the systems reliability problems.

Source

Good news

 

[WatcherZero]

Very short sighted of them.

The projects been in motion for almost 14 years.

 

[Class377/5]

There is a running thread on the Leigh Guided Busway and preliminary groundworks are currently under way this month. Having decided on this mode of transport, TfGM are not likely to also run a Metrolink service to and from Leigh.

The idea was to replace the busway with Trams long term.thats what a lot of other countries do. Build the bus way and let ridership increase until light rail is needed then switch over.

Also of note is tram 3040 was out to play on the Wednesday and today for the first time, double M5000's have been seen out on the Bury - Altrincham directs (trams 3002 + 3022). Yet unknown with what happened at Mosley Sreet but muilptle people have reported seeing the double on the Altrincham & Bury lines.

 

[northwichcat]

Also of note is tram 3040 was out to play on the Wednesday and today for the first time, double M5000's have been seen out on the Bury - Altrincham directs (trams 3002 + 3022). Yet unknown with what happened at Mosley Sreet but muilptle people have reported seeing the double on the Altrincham & Bury lines.

That's been reported on another forum as well with a photo of it working northbound. When I asked what happened at Mosley Street I was told it did Altrincham-Bury and then got switched to Bury-Piccadilly services. I don't know how it got down to Altrincham originally though, unless a spare tram had been stabled at Altrincham and then got joined up later on. (Direct trams between Bury and Altrincham don't operate for long after the evening peak finishes.)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The idea was to replace the busway with Trams long term.

At what time period in the proposal discussions did that idea surface and under whose aegis did it eminate ? Is it still contained within any current TfGM forward planning documentation ?

 

[northwichcat]

Increasing number of M5000s being used on the Altrincham line. Departures from Altrincham in 20 minutes when I was waiting for the Chester train this evening (approx times):

16:57 to Piccadilly (M5000)
17:00 to Bury (M5000)
17:10 to Bury (2 x T68s)
17:16 to Piccadilly (M5000)

It seems some drivers are stopping the M5000s in the usual T68 stopping place at Altrincham but others are still stopping them short.

 

[callum112233]

A video I did for anyone interested. Oldham-Victoria, the full journey. Excuse my ugly mug when it goes through the tunnels

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwYBZI5QF1I&list=UUW-TJcqitPSbIh6pZuGmNAQ&

 

[kevin]

I saw another doubled up M5000 out this morning whilst waiting to get into deansgate castlefield. Only going as far as Victoria. I imagine it might then go back towards Piccadilly to avoid Mosley Street?

 

[Class377/5]

That's been reported on another forum as well with a photo of it working northbound. When I asked what happened at Mosley Street I was told it did Altrincham-Bury and then got switched to Bury-Piccadilly services. I don't know how it got down to Altrincham originally though, unless a spare tram had been stabled at Altrincham and then got joined up later on. (Direct trams between Bury and Altrincham don't operate for long after the evening peak finishes.)

Simple, announcement was made at Market Street to be in front if the tram for Mosley Street. Once arrived at Mosley Street only front tram opened its doors with staff on platform directing passengers.

At what time period in the proposal discussions did that idea surface and under whose aegis did it eminate ? Is it still contained within any current TfGM forward planning documentation ?

Now that a question, was quite a while ago but sure it was offical stuff. Will have a look but my feeling is that it's was from long ago before the defeat of the congestion charge.

 

[Mattmatt]

Simple, announcement was made at Market Street to be in front if the tram for Mosley Street. Once arrived at Mosley Street only front tram opened its doors with staff on platform directing passengers.



Now that a question, was quite a while ago but sure it was offical stuff. Will have a look but my feeling is that it's was from long ago before the defeat of the congestion charge.

These new M5000 doubles are being tested ahead of the Olympic football in Manchester over the coming weeks. There are generally 3 new sets out; most of which have been out for the past few days, taking in a full days service. They ran out of Queens RD up to Bury, first thing, then run as a single down to St Peter Sq, & then open up as double to ALT & Alt to Bury. One of the new doubles failed today on the Deansgate - Castlefield ramp today causing huge delays lasting all day. As I spent all day at Mosley Street telling customers not to try & get on the rear of M5000 sets. After the Olympics, it will revert back to the usual T68's as doubles until Mosley St closes - or we get any special event that requires such an amount of doubles.

 

[Class377/5]

These new M5000 doubles are being tested ahead of the Olympic football in Manchester over the coming weeks. There are generally 3 new sets out; most of which have been out for the past few days, taking in a full days service. They ran out of Queens RD up to Bury, first thing, then run as a single down to St Peter Sq, & then open up as double to ALT & Alt to Bury. One of the new doubles failed today on the Deansgate - Castlefield ramp today causing huge delays lasting all day. As I spent all day at Mosley Street telling customers not to try & get on the rear of M5000 sets. After the Olympics, it will revert back to the usual T68's as doubles until Mosley St closes - or we get any special event that requires such an amount of doubles.

Interesting to hear that. Yesterday had five different M5000 combinations out during the day. Seems to be going fairly well apart from that one incident yesterday!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

From what I have been led to believe, the next few days will see the switching on of the electricity supply to the overhead power lines from the temporary Oldham Mumps stop along all the way to Rochdale which will then be continuously carrying electricity at a high voltage of 750 volts.

 

[tbtc]

I didn't think it worth starting another thread, but will it get to the stage where it's more efficient to have four coach trams rather than doubled up M5000s?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I didn't think it worth starting another thread, but will it get to the stage where it's more efficient to have four coach trams rather than doubled up M5000s?

I suppose that you have to look at the cost of the trams on order and their life expectancy, before finding the finance to purchase four-car trams. I am not sure if their is contractual obligations to carry on with the purchasing of the current M5000 stock enhancements. Perhaps someone can clarify the legalistic side of this.

I cannot see that this new finance will be forthcoming in the foreseeable future and there is the depot storage problem for these four-car trams which will have to be stored and serviced, in ADDITION to the existing projected fleet capacity.

 

[tbtc]

I suppose that you have to look at the cost of the trams on order and their life expectancy, before finding the finance to purchase four-car trams. I am not sure if their is contractual obligations to carry on with the purchasing of the current M5000 stock enhancements. Perhaps someone can clarify the legalistic side of this.

I cannot see that this new finance will be forthcoming in the foreseeable future and there is the depot storage problem for these four-car trams which will have to be stored and serviced, in ADDITION to the existing projected fleet capacity.

I was thinking that new M5000s will be needed for the additional lines (Airport etc) plus to replace the initial T68 trams, so maybe it'd make more sense to build "double length" units for the existing lines (Bury etc) and then cascade the single units from these onto the new lines.

On a different note - good to see you back and posting Paul

 

[martin2345uk]

But doubles are only really required in the peaks, it makes for much greater operational flexibility to have single trams that can be doubled to meet demand...

 

[northwichcat]

I suppose that you have to look at the cost of the trams on order and their life expectancy, before finding the finance to purchase four-car trams. I am not sure if their is contractual obligations to carry on with the purchasing of the current M5000 stock enhancements. Perhaps someone can clarify the legalistic side of this.

Yes I think the life expectancy is an important part here. The Manchester trams cannot be cascaded to another UK tram system so at present they have to order trams with the assumption they will continue to run in Manchester until they are withdrawn.

With trains there's plenty of 1 carriage diesel trains and 3 carriage electric trains so ordering new 2 carriage + diesel trains and 4 carriage + electric trains leaves scope for them to be cascaded elsewhere if passenger numbers grow and newer longer trains are ordered.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

But doubles are only really required in the peaks, it makes for much greater operational flexibility to have single trams that can be doubled to meet demand...

Some of the MediaCity and Altrincham services off-peak are quite busy. With Altrincham the busiest northbound tram every hour is usually the first one after the arrival of the train at Altrincham from Chester, so that's fairly simple. With MediaCity it's more complicated to judge which will be the busy trams as one day a studio audience of 500 might be thrown out at 2.15pm, the next day there is no afternoon filming, then the day after it's a longer programme which ends filming at 3.45pm.

 

[WatcherZero]

They have almost exhausted their original 96/97 contract options for M5000 trams with 94 ordered. If they want more they would have to renegotiate the existing price or choose a new model. That said I think theirs an offchance of dedicated doubles being ordered ala Frankfurt (which orders identical uni-directional and bi-directional trams, U50's and U25's) but your more likely to see a longer unit ordered for tram-train routes.

 

[tbtc]

They have almost exhausted their original 96/97 contract options for M5000 trams with 94 ordered. If they want more they would have to renegotiate the existing price or choose a new model. That said I think theirs an offchance of dedicated doubles being ordered ala Frankfurt (which orders identical uni-directional and bi-directional trams, U50's and U25's) but your more likely to see a longer unit ordered for tram-train routes.

Cheers - given the regular comments I read about the growth in passenger numbers over the past twenty years (and the fact that the initial line hasn't had any frequency increase since opening) I wondered whether longer trams would be more efficient than doubled up units (esp with further extensions in mind).

 

[bluegoblin7]

It should be remembered that the M5000s are also capable of having a larger centre section fitted, which could provide a capacity boost if required.

Of course, though, that then precludes the use of doubles at all due to the increased length - fine on the former railway platforms, but more of an issue a the newer ones!

 

[neilmc]

Whilst waiting for a bus at Piccadilly late last night (23.15) I noticed a newish double unit (I think it was 3037/3040) operating to Eccles followed by a single unit to Altrincham. I'd have thought Eccles to be a quieter route, so maybe there was a late night event at the Lowry meriting a double unit?

 

[snail]

I'd have thought Eccles to be a quieter route, so maybe there was a late night event at the Lowry meriting a double unit?

Olympic football at Old Trafford. Same service pattern as on the other football event days.