Manchester Metrolink master thread

[edwin_m]

I guess changing stations at East Didsbury would be of some benefit for people in the Chorlton area going to the Airport or points south - even if it takes 10min to walk, a decent train connection might still be quicker than getting the tram when it opens to the Airport.

Shame we spend so much money on these things but few places outside London have a decent multi-modal ticket to take avantage of the opportunities.

Looking at Bing Maps it might be possible to move the heavy rail station to the bridge over Metrolink but perched on an embankment above houses would be neither cheap nor easy. I don't think anyone's considering doing this (before any rumours start) and I think the existing railway station has recently been rebuilt - the ramp to the north platform looks a bit OTT as well.

 

[Starmill]

I guess changing stations at East Didsbury would be of some benefit for people in the Chorlton area going to the Airport or points south - even if it takes 10min to walk, a decent train connection might still be quicker than getting the tram when it opens to the Airport.

Shame we spend so much money on these things but few places outside London have a decent multi-modal ticket to take avantage of the opportunities.

Looking at Bing Maps it might be possible to move the heavy rail station to the bridge over Metrolink but perched on an embankment above houses would be neither cheap nor easy. I don't think anyone's considering doing this (before any rumours start) and I think the existing railway station has recently been rebuilt - the ramp to the north platform looks a bit OTT as well.

It was indeed recently rebuilt - I think it was 2007? Why do you think the ramp is OTT? The only alternative would have been a lift and that's surely more expensive to build and maintain. All four of the rebuilt stations have at least one large ramp... and Heald Green had a well-documented farce with its new ramp too!

 

[Leslie Fletcher]

... says our local free rag.

Welcome to the newly-opened Withington tram stop – which disgruntled residents say is one mile away from Withington.

People living in the district say they are bamboozled about why the Metrolink station has been given the ‘misleading’ title.

The stop, which is in between Southern Cemetery and Hough End Fields, is one of five on the new East Didsbury line which opened a fortnight ago.

But people living in Withington say the new platform on Princess Road is actually at least one mile away from the district’s historic boundaries.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ews/withington-residents-say-new-tram-4043498

 

[dggar]

I guess changing stations at East Didsbury would be of some benefit for people in the Chorlton area going to the Airport or points south - even if it takes 10min to walk, a decent train connection might still be quicker than getting the tram when it opens to the Airport.

Shame we spend so much money on these things but few places outside London have a decent multi-modal ticket to take avantage of the opportunities.

Looking at Bing Maps it might be possible to move the heavy rail station to the bridge over Metrolink but perched on an embankment above houses would be neither cheap nor easy. I don't think anyone's considering doing this (before any rumours start) and I think the existing railway station has recently been rebuilt - the ramp to the north platform looks a bit OTT as well.

I would have thought people in Chorlton wishing to go to the airport by train would travel to Piccadilly. Far greater choice of trains.

 

[12CSVT]

... says our local free rag.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ews/withington-residents-say-new-tram-4043498

Good job they don't live in Thirsk or Yeovil !!!!

 

[Manchester77]

Anything for the MEN to moan about

 

[ValleyLines142]

Has anyone got any pictures of double M5000's? I've yet to see any!

Also saw a video of 3018 departing Mosley Street on the very last service to Altrincham - very interesting footage!

 

[Polarbear]

On a tangent from the thread, today, I sampled the East Didsbury route for the first time. I'm back home now wishing I hadn't bothered...:roll:

First thing to note is that despite it's 305 space car park, there's not one road sign on the A34 directing motorists to this new facility? OK, I had a pretty good idea where to find said car park, but it wasn't an encouraging start.

Arrival at 15:10 was met with a wait of around 25 minutes for a tram. Next tram indicator not working & no announcements other than two pre-recorded statements about busy services this weekend & the closure of Heaton park stop after 8pm, (both of which I'd hear a LOT more of during the day).

As no practical announcements were made & the indicators weren't working, I got on the intercom & was advised that a tram was imminent & sure enough, it rolled up about 4 minutes later & off we trundled.

The return journey was more eventful! I arrived at Piccadilly at 17:15 & found that there were no Altrincham trams from there today. "OK", I thought, "bag an Eccles tram & change en-route - no problem".

An Eccles tram duly appeared and we set forth & fairly quickly got to Cornbrook where I got off at around 17:35. I then waited for ages at Cornbrook, with NO announcements (other than the automated dronings about Heaton Park & busy services) & had to let the first East Didsbury service go as it was that wedged. A second service was shown as terminating at St Werburgh's Road & a tram finally hove into view which got me to East Didsbury at 18:55. :roll:

Now I understand that there was some sort of accident in the city centre which gave rise to the delays & yes, I understand that it's the sort of thing that throws normal operating schedules out of the window. What I can't understand is the woeful lack of information provided to paying customers during the disruption to services? Additionally, it didn't seem like Metrolink had any sort of contingency plan that they could put in place, which just made matters worse.

Metrolink have a control room & presumably know where all their trams are at any one time. Is it too much to ask to relay at least some of that to the people at the sharp end?

It'll be a while until I go back on Metrolink - i'll get the train into Manchester or drive next time.

 

[edwin_m]

I changed at Cornbrook yesterday and PIDs were fitted but not working and plenty of orange jackets around the turnback and the Eccles line junction. Is TMS finally about to happen on this section?

 

[Manchester77]

- A taxi hit 1016 on Mosley Street earlier and due to the tight timetable (caused by lack of TMS) recovery from the incident was near impossible.
- PIDs can be inaccurate when thing go wrong as only parts of the lines are signalled with the relevant equipment (TMS)
- Local authority road signs aren't really much to do with metrolink perhaps email the relevant council, which is either stockport or manchester.
- Metrolink do have a contingency plan which is to chop and change services, a member on the SCC forum commented how Bury trams were turned into East Didsbury and Altrincham services to try to create some service. On London Underground the term 'Special Service' is used.
- I was out early to mid afternoon and there were plenty of announcements advising people of the delays, reasons and alternative methods.

- PIDs were fitted during the refurbishment a couple of years back.
- TMS is due July Freel said on SCC which will mean when the sort of incident that happened like today recovery will be a lot quicker as well as more tram availability and more accurate PID information.
- The orange guys are often seen at Cornbrook in the siding I assume its points work but i really don't know.

 

[rebmcr]

Additionally, it didn't seem like Metrolink had any sort of contingency plan that they could put in place, which just made matters worse.

The contingency plan is called the Second City Crossing... ;¬)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking at Bing Maps it might be possible to move the heavy rail station to the bridge over Metrolink but perched on an embankment above houses would be neither cheap nor easy. .

There is nothing wrong whatsoever with the location of the existing heavy rail station of East Didsbury and there is no logical reason for relocating it, situated where it is as a transport hub for a good number of bus services running from there in all directions..

 

[madannie77]

Has anyone got any pictures of double M5000's? I've yet to see any!

Saw plenty of pairs yesterday and got a few shots. I wasn't in Manchester for tram spotting but managed a few shots, which was not easy given how busy it was and the light/dark contrast, as evidenced in one of the shots below. My other half videoed plenty of pairs which should appear on YouTube at some point.



A shot of the front of 1016 not long after the RTA on Mosley Street and before the fire engines blocked the view. This one is from my other half, who got there before the fire engines, unlike me :x

 

[edwin_m]

Looks like the coupler shrouds may have done their job here. Any pics of what happened to the other guy?

 

[northwichcat]

With regards to double trams I've just seen this on the MCRUA site

An intermittent fault in the detection system for the Altrincham-bound signal at Navigation Road protecting the level crossing, has seen several instances of double trams heading to Manchester from Altrincham entering the platform triggering the safety features and bringing the tram to a rapid halt. It seems that the detector “sees” the second tram of a double set and thinks it is passing the signal at red. Thus the tram is left blocking the level crossing until the driver can reset the controls and move further into the platform. This detector should only work Altrincham-bound and not for the second unit of a double. Trams are travelling slowly into and out of Navigation Road as a result of this intermittent fault.

 

[Manchester77]

Looks like the coupler shrouds may have done their job here. Any pics of what happened to the other guy?

On the metrolink Facebook page there is a picture if the coupler and it looks to have been damaged a lot more than you an see in other images. I suspect that will have been 1016s last passenger trip

 

[edwin_m]

Probably so. I've heard the original unshrouded coupler described as a battering ram so I hope the shroud helped a bit in reducing the risk to the occupants of the other vehicle.

 

[table38]

A hapless motorist halted a tram carrying hundreds of passengers after driving 200 yards along the Metrolink line and abandoning her car.

The Metrolink service carrying around 600 passengers was terminated between stations after the woman was spotted by the tram driver.

She found her way onto the track near Holt Town station in Bradford, east Manchester, and continued to drive up the Metrolink line at around 7.40pm on Saturday. After turning the black Nissan Qashqai around and attempting to head back towards the road, the motorist was stopped by the tram driver.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/video-motorist-drives-along-metrolink-4283261

 

[northwichcat]

So the M5000s have a capacity of around 50 seated and 150 standing and there were apparently 600 people on board a service?

 

[Manchester77]

Its impossible unless there was a quadruple service operating...

People who aren't familiar with the crap the MEN churns out should be aware that if they give statistics you should take them with a pinch of salt because they're often over exaggerated and wrong

 

[185]

So the M5000s have a capacity of around 50 seated and 150 standing and there were apparently 600 people on board a service?

Was a double set, and to be fair to the MEN, seeing how many climbed off, that figure was quite accurate for once. Both lines, Bury and Etihad that day were utterly battered due to the two concerts.

 

[Manchester77]

It didn't happen on the day of the concerts etc though the on,y incident then was on Mosley Street where a taxi collided with 1016 this was this morning iirc and was probably a single as all doubles today were on Atrincham - Bury and East Didsbury - Rochdale peak only

 

[Starmill]

Was a double set, and to be fair to the MEN, seeing how many climbed off, that figure was quite accurate for once. Both lines, Bury and Etihad that day were utterly battered due to the two concerts.

600? 300 per M500 unit? And they could breathe?

Not saying its impossible (I've never counted!) but are you reasonably sure??

 

[Nym]

600? 300 per M500 unit? And they could breathe?

Not saying its impossible (I've never counted!) but are you reasonably sure??

Crush loading on floor space is given to be 7pax per square metre.

I'm remembering 2m by 25m of usable passenger space, that gives 350pax. Taking away the space taken up by seats (not that much) and put back the pax in the seats, and I can honestly see 300pax on one unit.

7ppsm is defined as 'crush loading' for braking calculations by the way, before someone questions it.

Also for comparison, an 8 car 2009TS (133.28m) long has a capacity of 1448 passengers, and frequently fits more than this on from what I have seen, extrapolating that back by vehile length I get close to 300 again.

 

[northwichcat]

Was a double set, and to be fair to the MEN, seeing how many climbed off, that figure was quite accurate for once. Both lines, Bury and Etihad that day were utterly battered due to the two concerts.

When there's around 500 waiting to board at MediaCity and a single empty M5000 arrives it only takes a crush loading of not even half the people waiting to board, so I have doubts about a M5000 carrying 300 at once unless Metrolink had Japanese style pushers in operation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Crush loading on floor space is given to be 7pax per square metre.

I'm remembering 2m by 25m of usable passenger space, that gives 350pax. Taking away the space taken up by seats (not that much) and put back the pax in the seats, and I can honestly see 300pax on one unit.

7ppsm is defined as 'crush loading' for braking calculations by the way, before someone questions it.

Also for comparison, an 8 car 2009TS (133.28m) long has a capacity of 1448 passengers, and frequently fits more than this on from what I have seen, extrapolating that back by vehile length I get close to 300 again.

By your workings:
1. How many are children and how many are adults?
2. Are there any less able passengers who may take up more space even if it's a zimmer frame or two sticks they use opposed to a wheelchair?
3. Do any passengers have back packs on their backs?
4. What proportion of overweight passengers have you allowed for?
5. Did you allow for anyone using the fold down seats or are you counting the space as standing space?

 

[familyguy99]

It didn't happen on the day of the concerts etc though the on,y incident then was on Mosley Street where a taxi collided with 1016 this was this morning iirc and was probably a single as all doubles today were on Atrincham - Bury and East Didsbury - Rochdale peak only

^^ It happen on Saturday evening M77 as MEN said "She found her way onto the track near Holt Town station in Bradford, east Manchester, and continued to drive up the Metrolink line at around 7.40pm on Saturday".

Like I said on SCC thread why don't Metrolink or TFGM put bollard down at Holt Town bit and near Clayton Hall stop like they have at Mumps and Rochdale to stop people driving onto tracks.

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/80637/bollards-to-road-confusion

 

[edwin_m]

A bollard doesn't make it impossible, as there still has to be a big enough gap for a tram to get through, but it should make it less likely that someone thinks it is a continuation of the road. Nevertheless I suspect one will appear here soon, and in various other places.

DfT refuses to allow a "No Entry" sign with an "Except Trams" plate in the regulations, so although they are used on various tramways they are not legally enforceable. The official sign is the tram in a blue circle with "only", which is much less conspicuous and I suspect is not understood by a big proportion of drivers.

 

[Nym]

When there's around 500 waiting to board at MediaCity and a single empty M5000 arrives it only takes a crush loading of not even half the people waiting to board, so I have doubts about a M5000 carrying 300 at once unless Metrolink had Japanese style pushers in operation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


By your workings:
1. How many are children and how many are adults?
2. Are there any less able passengers who may take up more space even if it's a zimmer frame or two sticks they use opposed to a wheelchair?
3. Do any passengers have back packs on their backs?
4. What proportion of overweight passengers have you allowed for?
5. Did you allow for anyone using the fold down seats or are you counting the space as standing space?

Its a UK Metro industry standard used in calculations. Based on average loading space.

 

[Starmill]

A bollard doesn't make it impossible, as there still has to be a big enough gap for a tram to get through, but it should make it less likely that someone thinks it is a continuation of the road. Nevertheless I suspect one will appear here soon, and in various other places.

DfT refuses to allow a "No Entry" sign with an "Except Trams" plate in the regulations, so although they are used on various tramways they are not legally enforceable. The official sign is the tram in a blue circle with "only", which is much less conspicuous and I suspect is not understood by a big proportion of drivers.

While I agree that "No Entry Except Trams" is far clearer than "Trams Only"... this is The Highway Code we are talking out. It is your responsibility to know it, as it is the responsibility of anyone who uses the road. Ignorance is not an excuse.

 

[northwichcat]

Its a UK Metro industry standard used in calculations. Based on average loading space.

So based on today's news that Manchester residents are statistically among the least healthy in the UK, the average Manchester person probably takes up more space than in other cities.