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Manchester Metrolink master thread

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Xenophon PCDGS

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I guess the Second City Crossing (or 2CC, as it's known) will probably be finished around 2016 or the first half of 2017.

Fortunate indeed that the 1970's group called 10CC are not around these days, as this would give credence to the more extravagant flights of fancy contained on the SSC "Fantasy Metrolink Extensions" thread...:D

Maybe it is my quirky mindset, but I sometimes see the phrase "2CC" as something akin to a Nostradamus-expressed view of the Second Coming...:oops:
 
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rebmcr

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The remodelled Victoria and St Peters Square will be the interchange points for the new line

I was under the impression that 2CC would diverge at the corner of Lower Mosley Street and Peter Street, continuing to Albert Square between the back of Central Library and the Quaker House — making Deansgate-Castlefield the interchange.

Indeed, on SCC someone who was out snapping in Oldham this week was talking to a worker saying he wouldn't be surprised if some kind of triple opening was on the cards

Sounds far too risky for my liking!
 
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edwin_m

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I was under the impression that 2CC would diverge at the corner of Lower Mosley Street and Peter Street, continuing to Albert Square between the back of Central Library and the Quaker House — making Deansgate-Castlefield the interchange.

That was the original plan but it was changed, to reduce impact on Albert Square I think. St Peters Square will become a four-platform stop with 2CC diverging down Princess Street then right into Cross Street.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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That was the original plan but it was changed, to reduce impact on Albert Square I think. St Peters Square will become a four-platform stop with 2CC diverging down Princess Street then right into Cross Street.

Will St Peters Square be the only 4 platform-faced Metrolink stop as I understand (but could be wrong) that the new Manchester Victoria stop, after the proposed enlargement works have been fully implemented, will only have three platform faces ?
 

edwin_m

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Will St Peters Square be the only 4 platform-faced Metrolink stop as I understand (but could be wrong) that the new Manchester Victoria stop, after the proposed enlargement works have been fully implemented, will only have three platform faces ?

According to the LRTA website Victoria will have four platform faces... but only three tracks, as one track will have platforms both sides. I assume the terminating trams will use this track to provide cross-platform interchange with trams both to and from beyond.

To be really pedantic Altrincham is already a Metrolink stop with four platform faces, but Metrolink only uses two of them!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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According to the LRTA website Victoria will have four platform faces... but only three tracks, as one track will have platforms both sides. I assume the terminating trams will use this track to provide cross-platform interchange with trams both to and from beyond.

To be really pedantic Altrincham is already a Metrolink stop with four platform faces, but Metrolink only uses two of them!

Thanks for this information. With regard to Altrincham station, two of the four platform faces there are used by the heavy-rail Manchester to Chester service....or have matters changed over the last few months since I was there ? Where have the other two Metrolink platform faces come from to make a total of four ?
 

snowball

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To be really pedantic Altrincham is already a Metrolink stop with four platform faces, but Metrolink only uses two of them!

And could only use the other two if the passengers got out and pushed. Would somebody have to hand-crank the crossover?

If you count all platforms regardless of whether or not Metrolink can use them, Piccadilly has 16.
 
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familyguy99

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To be really pedantic Altrincham is already a Metrolink stop with four platform faces, but Metrolink only uses two of them!

^^ Don't to sure where you getting four from as there only two Metrolink platform at Altrincham with other two as train station but saying that, Metrolink only use one platform with platform two (I think) only get use if tram break down near Altrincham and they keep it there until other tram move it back to depot or like tonight with football been played at Old Trafford (Man Utd ground) Metrolink will keep empty trams on platform 2 so once match have finish, they send tram to Old Trafford stop so they can have six mins service running from Old Trafford to City Centre and it help to get fans off platform too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Here is picture of rare double tram doing ORL/SML route on Sunday at St Werburgh's Road and Chorlton.

double tram waiting at St Werburgh's Road stop

Leaving Chorlton

Double tram leaving Chorlton Metrolink stop

Off to Manchester, Oldham/Rochdale it goes.

double tram having off to Manchester

Here are two picture at St Werburgh's Road stop looking down the line to Didsbury and you may notice the tracks heading off for Airport line too.

Metrolink line heading off to Didsbury

Metrolink line heading off to Airport line

And in this last picture is with Barlow Moor Road stop will be on Mauldeth Road West (Sorry if I wrong as I'm not that good in that area) but as you can see there no platform let.

Metrolink work for Airport line
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

EDIT: Today posted (28/08/13)
Tram testing from Droylsden to Ashton Under Lyne have begin running in daylight which mostly mean that Ashton line will be opening by end of September. :)
 
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ajdunlop

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Trams are more expensive per passenger carried than trains,

Surely that can't be right? The Rochdale and Oldham route was converted to tram because it was no longer viable as a train route. The Metrolink in Manchester pays for its operation itself through fares but many of the rail services are subsidised by TfGM.
 

edwin_m

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Surely that can't be right? The Rochdale and Oldham route was converted to tram because it was no longer viable as a train route. The Metrolink in Manchester pays for its operation itself through fares but many of the rail services are subsidised by TfGM.

It is right if you consider the costs of the vehicles in isolation. A tram costs about the same as a 2-car EMU but has less passenger space, and a tram-train is more expensive than a tram. Replacing trains by trams while changing nothing else will almost certainly increase costs especially if the capital cost of converting the infrastructure is taken into account.

Cost savings from trams compared to trains arise from (in no particular order):
- Driver only operation
- Lower driver wages
- Line of sight operation replacing a high-integrity signalling system
- Less wear on the track (probably)
- Probably lower energy costs (smaller and lighter vehicle, but higher performance)

Also the more frequent service going direct to important places not on the rail network will attract more passengers, fares may be a bit higher, so the revenue is more as well as the costs being less.

Hence tram-train schemes need to be in places where these savings and benefits make them worthwhile, rather than assuming that tram-train conversion is the solution to all problems!
 

northwichcat

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^^ Don't to sure where you getting four from as there only two Metrolink platform at Altrincham with other two as train station but saying that, Metrolink only use one platform with platform two (I think) only get use if tram break down near Altrincham and they keep it there until other tram move it back to depot or like tonight with football been played at Old Trafford (Man Utd ground) Metrolink will keep empty trams on platform 2 so once match have finish, they send tram to Old Trafford stop so they can have six mins service running from Old Trafford to City Centre and it help to get fans off platform too.

Is there still a short period in the evening where Metrolink use platform 2 instead of platform 1 to enable litter picking on platform 1?
 

edwin_m

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Thanks for this information. With regard to Altrincham station, two of the four platform faces there are used by the heavy-rail Manchester to Chester service....or have matters changed over the last few months since I was there ? Where have the other two Metrolink platform faces come from to make a total of four ?

Apologies if what was intended to be a little joke has upset so many people. The question was whether a Metrolink stop has four platform faces. Altrincham is a Metrolink stop and has four platform faces. Nobody said anything about Metrolink having to use them all.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Apologies if what was intended to be a little joke has upset so many people. The question was whether a Metrolink stop has four platform faces. Altrincham is a Metrolink stop and has four platform faces. Nobody said anything about Metrolink having to use them all.

My apology if pedantry has run riot in all directions, but phraseology of postings can sometimes have some unfortunate misunderstandings.

Let sweetness and light return to thread equilibrium once again.
 

radamfi

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That's after the second city crossing and new platforms at Cornbrook.

Is that a new plan? I seem to remember that the intention was for the service to run Cornbrook to MediaCityUK only from the start but that wasn't possible because of the delay to the introduction of TMS signalling.
 

northwichcat

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Altrincham is a Metrolink stop and has four platform faces. Nobody said anything about Metrolink having to use them all.

The thing with Altrincham is it's not just a case of Metrolink only uses two of them. It's a case of Metrolink is only allowed to use two of them, unless Metrolink order in tram-trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Is that a new plan? I seem to remember that the intention was for the service to run Cornbrook to MediaCityUK only from the start but that wasn't possible because of the delay to the introduction of TMS signalling.

There isn't a southbound turn back platform at Cornbrook (only a northbound one) so it isn't possible to turn a tram from the Salford Quays/Trafford Bar directions around there without delaying other services (except during engineering works or at off-peak times when Eccles trams serve MediaCity instead of the 'shuttle')
 

radamfi

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There isn't a southbound turn back platform at Cornbrook (only a northbound one) so it isn't possible to turn a tram from the Salford Quays/Trafford Bar directions around there without delaying other services (except during engineering works or at off-peak times when Eccles trams serve MediaCity instead of the 'shuttle')

I thought it was meant to move into a siding after terminating at Cornbrook? That wouldn't need a new platform.
 

edwin_m

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That's after the second city crossing and new platforms at Cornbrook.

Please enlighten us on new platforms at Cornbrook. That's a new one on me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I haven't been there since TMS was extended to Cornbrook but I assume the centre turnback east of the station is now operational. This allows trams from the west to drop passengers in the eastbound platform then run forward into the turnback and return west from the westbound platform later. There may be a need to check there is nobody left on board before moving to the siding, or they may only do this if the tram is going to be waiting in the siding for some time.

It also has connections to both tracks at the eastern end so trams from the east could terminate at Deansgate/Castlefield and use the turnback. Eastbound trams terminating at Cornbrook could only use the turnback by reversing into it - I'm not sure if this is allowed and even if it is, the tram would spend longer in the platform while the driver changed ends.
 

rebmcr

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There isn't a southbound turn back platform at Cornbrook (only a northbound one) so it isn't possible to turn a tram from the Salford Quays/Trafford Bar directions around there without delaying other services

It would be a delay compared to a hypothetical South-/West-facing bay.

However, compared to the current use of Piccadilly-bound paths for the service, using the Northern/Eastern siding makes zero change to that, whilst requiring fewer vehicles to operate the shuttle.
 

familyguy99

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Nice to see Metrolink have put maps up to tell passengers which line are affected by engineering work for this Sunday then just having "service on ORL will be running to Central Park where Replacement bus service will take you to City Centre"

Engineering work map
 
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snowball

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Is the MediaCityUK service going to be turning back at Cornbrook soon?

That's after the second city crossing and new platforms at Cornbrook.

My understanding (which comes from reading the posts of Freel07 on Skyscrapercity) is quite different. With TMS having been extended to Cornbrook, allowing the use of the reversing siding, there's no longer any essential technical reason why it isn't happening already, and it may be mainly a matter of managing the adverse public relations.

This is just speculation, but maybe they'll wait until TMS has been extended a bit further, or maybe they'll make its introduction coincide with the Victoria-based restrictions at the turn of the year.
 
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northwichcat

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My understanding (which comes from reading the posts of Freel07 on Skyscrapercity) is quite different. With TMS having been extended to Cornbrook, allowing the use of the reversing siding, there's no longer any essential technical reason why it isn't happening already, and it may be mainly a matter of managing the adverse public relations.

This is just speculation, but maybe they'll wait until TMS has been extended a bit further, or maybe they'll make its introduction coincide with the Victoria-based restrictions at the turn of the year.

OK maybe I misinterpreted something written on it and came to a wrong conclusion.

Maybe as they have enough trams to run MediaCity to Piccadilly they'll continue to do so until another section of Metrolink opens?
 

WatcherZero

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There isnt any proposed platform changes at Cornbrook, I think jcollins is possibly getting confused with Deansgate-Castlefield where a third platform is proposed alongside a walkway from the station to the Manchester Central entrance and also a station canopy though the scale of works may be scaled back from originally proposed due to the economy.
 

jopsuk

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Nice to see Metrolink have put maps up to tell passengers which line are affected by engineering work for this Sunday then just having "service on ORL will be running to Central Park where Replacement bus service will take you to City Centre"

Interestingly this is the opposite format to that used by TfL to show Underground closures- on the map that can be seen here the lines or parts of lines that don't have service are coloured in, lines not affected left grey.
 

Midlandman

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I see that the engineering works map indicates no trams between Altrincham and Timperley. Only about 90 minutes ago I used the crossing at Navigation Road. Not only were people on the platform, there was definitely a tram in sight. Is this a case of Network Rail postponing works on this section?
 
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