Manchester Metrolink master thread

[WatcherZero]

They did a couple of weeks ago, could have done so again.

 

[Muzer]

Yep - I was at Altrincham on the 18th of August waiting for a steam train, we had a significant amount of time so I was looking around the Metrolink platforms. A poor confused woman walked up to us and said "I think from this poster it's just a bus service today" - before wandering off a few minutes before a tram arrived! Unfortunately we then couldn't find her to let her know there were, in fact, trams running

 

[rogger13]

Mornin,
I am no expert,but the other day whilst on the tram at Old Trafford(or Warwick Rd in old money),I looked at the mess of the old disused platforms. I wondered if it would be possible to run specials on match or event days into them from the city centre .Perhaps StPetes square, non stop to Old Trafford.
Being a user on match days, its not much fun......

 

[Manchester77]

No it would mess up pathing on the busy Cornbrook viaduct. The platforms at Old Trafford can take 3 trams though so once TMS is in operation I'd hope that on match days a double would pull in working a football special and then a single PIC-ALT service would pull in that way more people can get there quicker. The football special can then turn back at the crossovers around Old Trafford. Good thing about that is the special can then sit in the depot until the match finishes when it can then be released

On a side note:

Ashton testing

Monday 02.09.2013

3063 has just turned at Clayton heading back to Ashton.

3058 also passed Edge Lane at 08:31 heading West, and back at 08:40.

Both showing 'Tram on Test'

PIDs at Edge Lane showing 'Not in Service'

# 08:44 - 3059 ditto

:banana:

 

[185]

Priority for matchdays ought to be reinstating both sets of points either side of Old Trafford. (the depot points, and the Great Stone Rd points).

 

[Manchester77]

I'd imagine that they'll come in the next phases of TMS covering things like the crossovers as well as the Altrincham line depot connection.
A few more of the EML today from SCC

Welcome back. Too much has gone on to describe! But last week Medias were still turning at Velo.

Service suspended between Clayton Hall and Piccadilly.

Image 1

Image 2

Now back to normal, but schedule will be all to cock for a while. One or two long gaps.

:banana:

Cheers matey.

A double set slips out of Ashton Moss wrong-road heading East at 1029 :-

Image 3

Image 4

Looking back, can’t quite make out the companion to 3066. It doesn't seem to be taking the crossover as it's now showing rear lights at this end :-

Image 5

:banana:

 

[familyguy99]

Sadly no testing have took place between Droylsden to Ashton since yesterday (4th September) but here are some trams picture that I took today at Ashton Moss for waiting for more test to Ashton or waiting to go back to Trafford depot.

Metrolink trams waiting for testing

Trams at Ashton Moss stop

Metrolink 3063 tram

3063 tram waiting for testing

3063 Metrolink tram

Metrolink 3063 tram

3058-3059 and 3061-3066 sit at Ashton Moss

Metrolink tram sit at Ashton Moss

3058-3059 tram at Ashton Moss

two trams x2 couple together

tram couple together

3058 and 3061 in these picture

3058 tram waiting at Ashton Moss

3058-3061 tram at Ashton Moss

3058-3061 waiting for testing

3061 tram sit at Ashton Moss stop

Metrolink totems at Ashton Moss

Metrolink totems at Ashton Moss

Empty Ashton West and Ashton Under Lyne stops

looking at Ashton West Metrolink stop

looking at Ashton Under Lyne stop

some more picture of Ashton Moss to Ashton can be found here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/sets/72157631130586554/

Picture that I took on Tuesday/Wednesday for Oldham Town Centre line can be found here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/metrolink_work/sets/72157632535235149/

 

[Manchester77]

For those on SCC you will already know however:
On Facebook there are two metrolink blogs the 'unofficial' one and another one. This other one acts as if they are metrolink and posts other people's images without permission or credit. Thought if post this as not everyone will be aware

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

For those on SSC you will already know however:
On Facebook there are two metrolink blogs the 'unofficial' one and another one. This other one acts as if they are metrolink and posts other people's images without permission or credit. Thought if post this as not everyone will be aware

Do you mean there is an official one and an unofficial one on Facebook...or two unofficial ones ?

 

[sheff'd victoria]

I still can not work out why the Metrolink trams are only 2 cars long, where other tram networks are at least a 3 car set ?

 

[edwin_m]

I still can not work out why the Metrolink trams are only 2 cars long, where other tram networks are at least a 3 car set ?

I presume you mean that each tram vehicle is two sections articulated together, the same arrangement used on Midland Metro and Tramlink. Tram people don't refer to these sections as cars, as it just causes confusion. Sheffield and Nottingham trams have more sections but the sections are shorter so the vehicle itself is only a bit longer than the Manchester one.

Mancheter is also the only modern era tramway in the UK to run trams coupled together. A coupled pair is about 60m long, the longest that can be fitted in the city centre platforms and much longer than any of the single trams on other UK tramways. So if the individual Manchester trams were any longer it would actually reduce capacity as they couldn't run in pairs, unless they were 60m long which would be too big for the likely demand on most routes.

 

[Manchester77]

Do you mean there is an official one and an unofficial one on Facebook...or two unofficial ones ?

There's one called the unofficial metrolink blog which is a fan run type of thing.
The other one is called manchester metrolink and claims to actually be metrolink however it too is not official. The latter has now been shut down I think after people reported it

 

[kevin]

Bit off topic but first tram with free wifi in service! (Tram 3054)

Quick registration with name and email then you're connected

Edit: Seemed pretty responsive round the city centre but from deansgate towards media city I switched back to 3G

 

[pemma]

Regarding this thread would it be better to make the images smaller or to link to them opposed to embed them?

Each photo seems to be around 1/4MB in size meaning this page alone is over 5MB in size so anyone viewing via a mobile connection will either be rapidly using up their usage allowance by just viewing this thread!

 

[pemma]

The Rochdale and Oldham route was converted to tram because it was no longer viable as a train route.

The Oldham Loop had up to one train every 15 minutes so saying it wasn't viable as a train service at all sounds very unlikely. Are you sure it wasn't the 15 minute heavy rail frequency that wasn't viable opposed to a heavy rail service operating on that line?

 

[Manchester77]

@TamesideCouncil: Cllr Robinson announces that Metrolink is due to arrive in Ashton on 9 October

 

[edwin_m]

Depends what you mean by viable.

With lighter electric trams every 6-12min operated by one person on a lower salary, the direct operating costs are similar to the previous situation of heavier diesel trains every 15-30min operated by two people at rail industry rates. Rolling stock maintenance is probably similar too, as although there are more trams each one will need less maintenance. The signalling and infrastructure maintenance costs will be much lower but this is offset by the large capital spend to convert the railway line to a tramway.

What makes a big difference is the extra passengers attracted by more frequent service, more modern and clean vehicles, and direct access to the city centre and beyond (and in future to the centres of Oldham and Rochdale too). Together with higher fares it is likely that the revenue will exceed the day-to-day operating and maintenance costs but may not go very far towards repaying the capital or funding major replacements in the distant future.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

@TamesideCouncil: Cllr Robinson announces that Metrolink is due to arrive in Ashton on 9 October

Is this the second time in recent times that a Tameside councillor has made such a statement prior to Metrolink doing so ?

 

[Manchester77]

Think so they did it was Droylsden if i remember correctly!

 

[bb21]

May I just remind everyone that the forum rules do require that posts are accessible, which includes showing consideration to hardware capabilities of other forum members, or those who may be on a slow connection.

I have amended posts within the last hundred or so which contain large images. I am sure that the OP had the best of intentions, however this rule was designed to accommodate as many forum members' situations as we can.

I will deal with all the bickering in a short while, as I am changing trains in a few minutes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I have gone through all the posts and I really fail to understand why there was even an argument. I understand that other forums may well have a different take on the matter, however we have a rule that was designed with as many forum members' needs in mind as we could, so it would be appreciated if it could be observed.

As far as I am concerned, this is the end of the matter, so let's get back to discussing Metrolink-related issues.

 

[pemma]

I forgot to say the decision to convert the Oldham Loop was taken when FNW were operating it. Over the last 10 years rail passenger numbers have increased exponentially so what wasn't profitable in 2001 may have been profitable by 2011.

The conversion would have costed quite a lot though - new trams, new track, new electrification, new stops, new TVMs etc. so I imagine it'll take quite a few years to become profitable (which is always the way with a new system.)

 

[Starmill]

Is this the second time in recent times that a Tameside councillor has made such a statement prior to Metrolink doing so ?

Think so they did it was Droylsden if i remember correctly!

Indeed!

Manchester, Oldham and Rochdale didn't jump the gun like that! Why do Tameside think they are so special?

 

[trickyvegas]

Indeed!

Manchester, Oldham and Rochdale didn't jump the gun like that! Why do Tameside think they are so special?

In terms of a political stranglehold, Tameside is effectively as democratic as North Korea therefore the council think (and generally do so) they can do as they wish.

 

[snowball]

Isn't it just an individual rogue councillor?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Isn't it just an individual rogue councillor?

TfGM should have a word with the council to say that they are none too happy that this has happened for a second time now in the Tameside area....and as such, it will not bode well for a future system extension to Stalybridge...

 

[familyguy99]

I see some people are complain about my picture been large on here, what I will do is I post link from SCC thread onto here so if you want to look at my awful picture of awful Metrolink system you can still look at them if you want to. (that is you are not already seen them on SCC thread anywhere)

 

[snowball]

The conversion would have costed quite a lot though - new trams, new track, new electrification, new stops, new TVMs etc. so I imagine it'll take quite a few years to become profitable (which is always the way with a new system.)

i don't think any part of Metrolink aspires to cover the capital costs of creating it or converting it from heavy rail - just its running costs.

 

[pemma]

i don't think any part of Metrolink aspires to cover the capital costs of creating it or converting it from heavy rail - just its running costs.

Which would then make the 'profitable' argument pointless if they don't recoup the set up costs in full before claiming to be profitable.

 

[Muzer]

I like your pictures, but they are just irritatingly large when you don't want to look at them - so yes, do continue to link them, please

 

[WatcherZero]

They have to use the standard Dft BCR ratios when applying for government grants, i.e. that the investment produces a minimum 1.5, preferably 2.0+ economic multiplier. For the locally funded parts they work on the fare box revenue covering the whole cost of the loan interest and repayments they take out to finance construction and operating costs over a 30 year period.

They have also in the past timed the line conversions (Oldham track and signalling, for phase 1 electrification renewal) at the point NR would have to renew the line anyway, you can then make a direct comparison of the costs of conversion vs the costs of renewal which usually favours light rail and helps the business case by demonstrating savings.