• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Mark Harper will be on Laura Kuenssberg's programme today (27/11/2022 BBC1 09:00)

Status
Not open for further replies.

the sniper

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2007
Messages
3,498
Tell me how many people in the private sector are getting pay rises in line with inflation. Not many! Most would be thankful to get 4%.

Isn't the private sector average over 6% now... Let's not forget many rail staff haven't had a pay rise since 2019. And just in case it isn't entire obvious, you don't ask for what you expect to get in any negotiation.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
17,858
Location
East Anglia
Tell me how many people in the private sector are getting pay rises in line with inflation. Not many! Most would be thankful to get 4%.
I would imagine it’s the strings that have caused the rejection. For such a measly offer it should be a straight forward 8% over two years with no conditions attached.
 

RHolmes

Member
Joined
19 Jul 2019
Messages
641
Tell me how many people in the private sector are getting pay rises in line with inflation. Not many! Most would be thankful to get 4%.
Everyone I personally know in the private sector has had a double or near double figure increase, with no additional strings
 

Merle Haggard

Established Member
Joined
20 Oct 2019
Messages
2,770
Location
Northampton
Could not agree more about door opening and its cost..

-
- the current procedure of the guard getting out and checking the platform is there before opening everyone else's doors is costing time too - why enhance rail speed at such significant cost, when there's 10-15 seconds per stop to be had from the rules...
What I don't understand is that on LNw, the conductors alight, march across the platform, look up and down, return to the train and release the doors (delay exacerbated by the slow opening time of Cl 350 doors). But on some other lines, the conductor merely leans out of the centre cab window (on 2 x 4cars) and presses the door release - even when, due to platform curvature, the ends of the train can't be seen. Or the doors just open the instant the trains stops (on trains with a conductor).
 

Annetts key

Established Member
Joined
13 Feb 2021
Messages
2,907
Location
West is best
The reason for the current door release procedures just may have something to do with numpties trying to alight from trains where there is no platform in the past. And in today’s H&S climate, where trains have power operated doors (or equivalent), the railway employee must ensure that only doors actually at a platform face can be released.
 

Philip

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
3,734
Location
Manchester
I'm curious, if the mention of DOO hadn't been part of the strings of the RDG, do people think it would've gone to a vote and potentially been accepted?
 

class ep-09

Member
Joined
5 Sep 2013
Messages
590
Tell me how many people in the private sector are getting pay rises in line with inflation. Not many! Most would be thankful to get 4%.
What part of private sector has had 4% or less pay increase since 2019 ?

I guess you know that your statement is not true .
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
21,176
Doesn't a two year agreement leave far too much risk for the staff on what inflation might be in 2023?
 

DanNCL

Established Member
Joined
17 Jul 2017
Messages
5,016
Location
County Durham
Are the RMT allowed to reject it without putting it to a membership vote?

The membership would rightfully reject it anyway, as whilst the pay offer is reasonable the DOO and station staffing strings aren’t.
 

Sleepy

Established Member
Joined
15 Feb 2009
Messages
1,681
Location
East Anglia
There is no way the union would have accepted this - half the members would have quit the union overnight. The government know this - It's so they can say they've made an offer to the media / MPs receiving complaints from the public.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
8,386
Are the RMT allowed to reject it without putting it to a membership vote?

The membership would rightfully reject it anyway, as whilst the pay offer is reasonable the DOO and station staffing strings aren’t.
Yes and have done so in the past.
 

Fred26

Member
Joined
5 Mar 2010
Messages
1,107
I would imagine it’s the strings that have caused the rejection. For such a measly offer it should be a straight forward 8% over two years with no conditions attached.

I speak for myself, but I couldn't care less about the pay increase.
My biggest concern is the destruction of most grades and with that our hard won T&C's.
Compulsory redundancies off the table for just over a year is worthless. How many staff do they want to cut?! Loads of staff applied for severance when it was last open, and almost all were rejected.

I am genuinely worried about my job and agreeing to these proposals would leave many of us on the edge.

Yes, it’s called collective bargaining.

Exactly. We elect union leaders to make decisions. The same way we vote for MPs to make decisions for us.
 

footprints

Member
Joined
28 Feb 2017
Messages
223
The headlines of "RMT reject pay offer of 8% and no compulsory redundancies" are just what the Government wanted.
 

theking

Member
Joined
30 Sep 2011
Messages
626
There is no way the union would have accepted this - half the members would have quit the union overnight. The government know this - It's so they can say they've made an offer to the media / MPs receiving complaints from the public.

Exactly. The media is already reporting EIGHT percent.
 

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
17,858
Location
East Anglia
I speak for myself, but I couldn't care less about the pay increase.
My biggest concern is the destruction of most grades and with that our hard won T&C's.
Compulsory redundancies off the table for just over a year is worthless. How many staff do they want to cut?! Loads of staff applied for severance when it was last open, and almost all were rejected.

I am genuinely worried about my job and agreeing to these proposals would leave many of us on the edge.
The pay increase is important to many but as you say, you’ll certainly be on the edge with the conditions attached to that insulting offer.
 

brad465

Established Member
Joined
11 Aug 2010
Messages
8,683
Location
Taunton or Kent
3 decades since there have been guards on second members of staff on Southern, Southeastern, Anglia metro services , Thameslink, most Chiltern services or GW Thames valley services might suggest otherwise...

I'm not surprised by the offer and it is a massive failure by the unions not to notice the seismic shift that is going to occur whether they like it or not. The industry can't afford not to deal with all the cans kicked down the road previously.

Lots of new rolling stock around or will be shortly that enables another wave of DOO on the scale of what BR did.

I haven't used a ticket office window since 2008 (machine, online, oyster, contactless, smartcard instead) and new initiatives like Project Oval (rolling out in 2024...) will deliver another wave of reductions in ticket sales by staff.
I'm confident you're an expert in ticketing and thus can easily avoid ticket office windows. I'm similar, although I have used windows at stations where the queue for self-service is longer. However, there will be users who largely go for ticket windows because they're not 100% sure on the best ticket for their journey(ies), and Maidstone East's windows are very busy on Saturdays as an example, with at least a few cases while I've been queuing/passing not being clear-cut ticket choices. I'd support closing them if the fare system was simpler, something that Oyster cards have made possible in London, but isn't yet there elsewhere.

The headlines of "RMT reject pay offer of 8% and no compulsory redundancies" are just what the Government wanted.
Exactly. The media is already reporting EIGHT percent.
In a country which lacks critical thinking education provision, they can get away with this.
 

baza585

Member
Joined
1 Aug 2010
Messages
706
CPI is generally regarded as being more accurate and internationally consistent, and better constructed. As a statistician, FWIW I agree.

Of course if you want to weaken the union's arguments by playing "choose the highest index we can find" I'm sure the Treasury will be quite happy for you to do so......
.
 

800001

Established Member
Joined
24 Oct 2015
Messages
5,276
Offer received by rmt below
 

Attachments

  • E4D03141-1D3E-4D6D-8022-FE87F4DE0EE9.jpeg
    E4D03141-1D3E-4D6D-8022-FE87F4DE0EE9.jpeg
    288 KB · Views: 309
  • 4D1416D4-0FDF-46B2-85BA-8C6CA50815A0.jpeg
    4D1416D4-0FDF-46B2-85BA-8C6CA50815A0.jpeg
    251.4 KB · Views: 292

Annetts key

Established Member
Joined
13 Feb 2021
Messages
2,907
Location
West is best
CPI is generally regarded as being more accurate and internationally consistent, and better constructed. As a statistician, FWIW I agree.

Of course if you want to weaken the union's arguments by playing "choose the highest index we can find" I'm sure the Treasury will be quite happy for you to do so......
.
So why does the government allow regulated fares to rise in line with RPI then?
 

Towers

Established Member
Joined
30 Aug 2021
Messages
2,540
Location
UK
We can, presumably, safely assume that the DfT were fully aware this offer was never going to be accepted and aren't overly bothered about the dispute ending, in which case it's rather difficult to see how this goes forwards. I'm minded to suggest that the only way out now is for the RMT to grovel for the best no-strings figure that the DfT might be prepared to table, albeit that'd likely be a very, very low offer. I really can't see any other way forwards at this stage, and another six months of stalemate really won't be popular with members.
 

RHolmes

Member
Joined
19 Jul 2019
Messages
641
I really can't see any other way forwards at this stage, and another six months of stalemate really won't be popular with members.

Quite the opposite, it’s lit a fire of anger in most of us.

I’d go another six months, I’d be financially better off on the same wage and conditions now than being made redundant and jobless in 2024.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top