May 2015 Timetable

[berneyarms]

The point you make is correct,the tt is not customer focused,the demand from Wrexham & associated stations is to the North West and West Midlands, certainly not South Wales & Holyhead.
I still find it hard to understand Wrexham losing services, yet we have WG supported services between Claebeston Rd and Fishguard carrying fresh air,plus extra WG supported services on the howl due May plus the extra services on the Cambrian from may,There are 158s that could be used on the Cambrian plying between Llandudno and Manchester all day, there is a spare 175 due to the loco haul that could be used since December,this could easily be swopped with a 158

Have you gone through the official rosters in detail to be able to back this up out of curiosity? I haven't worked out the 175 rosters, but are you absolutely sure about this?

I don't think making negative comments about other areas, where local groups have worked hard to get extra services, is going to win you any favours.

The fact remains that an alternative is still there - albeit 15 minutes earlier.

The only time they will be short a 158 is in the early mornings, as it will be going from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth at that stage.

 

[merlodlliw]

Have you gone through the official rosters in detail to be able to back this up out of curiosity? I haven't worked out the 175 rosters, but are you absolutely sure about this?

I don't think making negative comments about other areas, where local groups have worked hard to get extra services, is going to win you any favours.

The fact remains that an alternative is still there - albeit 15 minutes earlier.

The only time they will be short a 158 is in the early mornings, as it will be going from Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth at that stage.

The 0740 out of Chester to Manchester was a three car 175, this has been replaced by Loco Hauled, so this 175 set is extra to the fleet.how can it not be.

As far as other areas, I am just repeating what was said earlier on the forums
about a 158 spending all day on the Llandudno/Manchester run.Local groups have spent time getting extra services,good for them, my group wants to retain services not loose them,
An alternative running 15 minutes earlier to another part of the country, is not in my eyes acceptable,when this very service open access is on a year to year contract, you see nothing wrong with ATWs stance, your choice,certainly not mine. Tomorrows meeting will see all sides aired at Shrewsbury.

 

[berneyarms]

The 0740 out of Chester to Manchester was a three car 175, this has been replaced by Loco Hauled, so this 175 set is extra to the fleet.how can it not be.

As far as other areas, I am just repeating what was said earlier on the forums
about a 158 spending all day on the Llandudno/Manchester run.Local groups have spent time getting extra services,good for them, my group wants to retain services not loose them,
An alternative running 15 minutes earlier to another part of the country, is not in my eyes acceptable,when this very service open access is on a year to year contract, you see nothing wrong with ATWs stance, your choice,certainly not mine. Tomorrows meeting will see all sides aired at Shrewsbury.

That 175 may be used on other services though - it doesn't mean that it is lying idle somewhere, as your posts tend to suggest.

It was actually me who posted that there was one 158 on Llandudno/Manchester.

As for the Open Access train - it is fulfilling a franchise commitment between Chester and Shrewsbury - if it is withdrawn they will have to replace it with something else. End of story, so I think again you need to perhaps not try and use a scare tactic here.

I will repeat my point though - I don't think you are doing your cause much good by trying to suggest that the additional services to Fishguard and on the HOWL should be cancelled (which is what you are implying) which other groups have campaigned for - I would focus on your own area. Your issue is with ATW and not those groups, and frankly you're just going to raise more hackles than necessary by making suggestions such as that.

Again, the alternative train still connects cross-platform with a Birmingham bound train at Shrewsbury. In every one of your posts you are ignoring this fact. And I am still waiting for you to explain how Wrexhamites find changing trains more difficult than other people?

I do have some sympathy with your view, but I think you could certainly put your argument across in a more positive manner. There's been a fair bit of exaggeration and hyperbole in some of the posts on this topic and other ATW issues, rather than focussing on how a unit can be found to operate the train.

I also have some sympathy with ATW who are trying to respond to demands from left, right and centre and the WG to strengthen trains or add new services while maintaining very tight rolling stock resources.

 

[PHILIPE]

To summarise the saving of 175 and without going in to full details, it would appear the 175x1 replaces a 175/0 on the same route and this 175/0 works an extra leg on the coast in the morning and doubles up with another 175/0 on the route in the afternoon.

 

[merlodlliw]

That 175 may be used on other services though - it doesn't mean that it is lying idle somewhere, as your posts tend to suggest.

It was actually me who posted that there was one 158 on Llandudno/Manchester.

As for the Open Access train - it is fulfilling a franchise commitment between Chester and Shrewsbury - if it is withdrawn they will have to replace it with something else. End of story, so I think again you need to perhaps not try and use a scare tactic here.[/QUOTe

I said the 175 3 car is now extra to ATWs fleet,which is correct.

I dont use scare tactics, and never surgested the Fishguards or Cambrian should be cancelled, if Gerald is cancelled,as ATW have no supposed spares, with what.

I will stand up for my patch, you may like it,others do.This is now becoming rather personal,so ill leave it at that,I dont wish to annoy the moderators.

Bob

 

[PHILIPE]

I said the 175 3 car is now extra to ATWs fleet,which is correct.

I dont use scare tactics, and never surgested the Fishguards or Cambrian should be cancelled, if Gerald is cancelled,as ATW have no supposed spares, with what.

I will stand up for my patch, you may like it,others do.This is now becoming rather personal,so ill leave it at that,I dont wish to annoy the moderators.

Bob

No. Bob. As I have explained the 175/1 has not been made Spare. It has been used after juggling to reduce the number of 2 x Car 175 trains on the route.

 

[mikestone1952]

They still have the same number of 175s as always, the December changes did not make one spare. Two sets are used on the 17.50 from Manchester instead of one. In the morning it works the diagram which finishes with the 09.40 from Crewe, formerly a 158 which now starts its day strengthening the 07.31 Shrewsbury-Birmingham.
;
Going back to my original query the fourth down service to Aberystwyth is at 06.25 from Salop and is in OTT.
;
What surprises me is that they haven't gone further towards an hourly service by running the Aberystwyth portions on the opposite hour to the existing ones, which would become Pwllheli only.

 

[berneyarms]

I said the 175 3 car is now extra to ATWs fleet,which is correct.

I dont use scare tactics, and never surgested the Fishguards or Cambrian should be cancelled, if Gerald is cancelled,as ATW have no supposed spares, with what.

I will stand up for my patch, you may like it,others do.This is now becoming rather personal,so ill leave it at that,I dont wish to annoy the moderators.

Bob

For clarity, I am certainly not trying to make this in any way personal, and I don't want anyone to think that it is.

But I will, where I see fit, comment on or challenge arguments that are put forward, when I feel that they (or what is implied in them) is wrong or maybe questionable. That's what a discussion board is all about.

And I certainly think that, for example, a comment that a Class 175 set is now spare (which was the word used earlier) as a result of the new loco hauled set, does imply that it is not now being used. In fact it appears that it is being used on other services, and therefore it is a comment that deserves challenging.

ATW have franchise obligations that they must meet. Therefore they will have to provide a service around 07:15 between Chester and Shrewsbury and around 17:15 out of Cardiff - they have no choice in that matter. That's why, if Gerald does ever bite the dust, they are going to have to deal with that somehow. I just cannot see a situation where no train will operate in those slots. Something would have to be done to make sure that the service level is maintained. As to where they would get the set from? I don't know, but what I do know is that they would have to do so. They have no choice.

The fundamental issue your group face is challenging ATW to somehow juggle services around and find a set to operate the service. That's what it boils down to.

I genuinely do hope a solution that keeps everyone happy can be reached.

 

[Gareth Marston]

They still have the same number of 175s as always, the December changes did not make one spare. Two sets are used on the 17.50 from Manchester instead of one. In the morning it works the diagram which finishes with the 09.40 from Crewe, formerly a 158 which now starts its day strengthening the 07.31 Shrewsbury-Birmingham.
;
Going back to my original query the fourth down service to Aberystwyth is at 06.25 from Salop and is in OTT.
;
What surprises me is that they haven't gone further towards an hourly service by running the Aberystwyth portions on the opposite hour to the existing ones, which would become Pwllheli only.

There are no through coast portions showing on OTT or with a friendly Booking Clerk who interrogated his system this morning and found My 15 tt loaded. The coast trains still arrive Mach ahead of the UP trains from Aber and depart Mach after the Aber trains has left as now. Is this correct or as has been the case in the past the portions will run but for some reason don't show on system?

Whilst your hourly as far as Mach then coast/Aber split proposal is operationally workable the passenger loadings show that there is 4 times the demand for through trains to England from Ceredigion as there is from the coast line. This is spread throughout year whilst the demand from the coast is a trickle on winter weekdays. 90% of the traffic on the coast is within MCH to PWL whilst 75% of demand at Aberystwyth is too England and demand for extra services has been strongly supported from there.

 

[totally]

There appears to be no sign of Virgin's recently introduced(Dec 14) 05:25 Blackpool to Euston yet the Northbound 16:33 remains. Anybody any info on this?

 

[LeylandLen]

The train is down as 1K14,a Voyager DMU , the 0525 going to Crewe where it joins up with a similar Voyager train 1R13 from Holyhead and becomes one train dep 0653 to London Euston. The return train is a direct Euston to Blackpool double Voyager at 1633. I believe it returns as ECS to Crewe , where one unit goes to Holyhead and the other returns to Blackpool the following morning to start the cycle again . I know that if you look on National Rail planner the 0525 is shown, as a Virgin train from Blackpool N to London Euston.

 

[Tony2215]

There appears to be no sign of Virgin's recently introduced(Dec 14) 05:25 Blackpool to Euston yet the Northbound 16:33 remains. Anybody any info on this?

Just 5 weeks into the winter timetable and already people are expecting all the national summer train times to be available in online databases

 

[The Planner]

We work that far out and May 15 was offered back at the end of last year. Dec 15 work starts shortly.

 

[merlodlliw]

No. Bob. As I have explained the 175/1 has not been made Spare. It has been used after juggling to reduce the number of 2 x Car 175 trains on the route.

the word spare I used was because the loco hauled took over its duties,of course ATW will have used it elsewhere,I appreciate that.
The major problem in my opinion is ATW have taken on extra routes and services without the stock to run them,

 

[trawscymru27]

I have searched Open Train Times for the new Cambrian and HoWL services, and put them into Excel spreadsheets so that the new timetables can be more clearly seen. There appears to be one return service missing on the HoWL at the moment. Hope these are of interest/use.

 

[SprinterMan]

I have searched Open Train Times for the new Cambrian and HoWL services, and put them into Excel spreadsheets so that the new timetables can be more clearly seen. There appears to be one return service missing on the HoWL at the moment. Hope these are of interest/use.

That's fantastic dude
Thanks very much for this

Adam

 

[merlodlliw]

The axeing of a Wrexham/Birmingham train was raised in the Cardiff Bay Senedd today.

Here is the first transcript for your information.

Aled Roberts: Minister, whilst you consider the task group's report, and whilst
they're involved in these further discussions and consultation with regard to
the national transport plan, OpenTrainTimes website this week has published
details of the May 2015 timetable, which includes the deletion of the Wrexham to Birmingham 07:47 service, which is the most heavily used service from Wrexham.
Can I ask that you intervene as far as Arriva Trains Wales is concerned because Minister, whilst you consider the task group's report, and whilst they're involved in these further discussions and consultation with regard to the national transport plan, OpenTrainTimes website this week has published details of the May 2015 timetable, which includes the deletion of the Wrexham to Birmingham 07:47 service, which is the most heavily used service from Wrexham.
Can I ask that you intervene as far as Arriva Trains Wales is concerned because OpenTrainTimes are telling us that that information is based on information that they've received from Network Rail via Arriva Trains Wales?


Edwina Hart Thank you for that. That was not one of the issues that Arriva
raised with me in a meeting with me recently, this week. It is certainly a
matter that I will take up. I think that it's important that we recognise the
importance of some of these routes and the timing of these trains in terms of
people's ability to do business, et cetera.

The web version will appear tomorrow on WG website

 

[CapitalStar378]

Good to see TfL starting Sunday 4tph from day one on West Anglia. That used to annoy me when I lived in Stoke Newington, half hourly trains with 2 running through in an inner London suburb.

 

[DelW]

I have searched Open Train Times for the new Cambrian and HoWL services, and put them into Excel spreadsheets so that the new timetables can be more clearly seen. There appears to be one return service missing on the HoWL at the moment. Hope these are of interest/use.

Your spreadsheet confirms my reading of OTT for the HoWL, that two through trains (late morning southbound and evening northbound) have vanished from the timetable. Does anyone know whether this is an error, or whether these trains really will be discontinued? The morning southbound has been quite well used when I have travelled on it.

This would also mean train crews having to work right through rather than changing units midway. Do crews from either end sign the whole route?

 

[swt_passenger]

Opentraintimes might not include all services yet. There have been a few instances over the last few years when it has not shown all services at this stage, because they are showing data that is outside the stage when the timetable is finally confirmed.

I believe this is exactly why these dates are not displayed on realtimetrains yet. It's quite possible that the point made to the Welsh Government a few posts above here may turn out to be premature...

 

[PHILIPE]

Your spreadsheet confirms my reading of OTT for the HoWL, that two through trains (late morning southbound and evening northbound) have vanished from the timetable. Does anyone know whether this is an error, or whether these trains really will be discontinued? The morning southbound has been quite well used when I have travelled on it.

This would also mean train crews having to work right through rather than changing units midway. Do crews from either end sign the whole route?

Remember Open Train Times at this moment in time is not the final Timetable and the 2 missing trains are probably still in the process of having timing detail finalised. They are not being knocked out. No traincrews work the full length, change over ay either Llanwrtyd or Llandrindod Wells. Shrewsbury Drivers and Shrewsbury and Crewe conductors from the North end and Carmarthen crews from the South end.

 

[159jim]

Looks like one of the Bournemouth-Manchesters is being diverted to Leeds on Saturdays...

http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/P35787/2015-05-23

 

[306024]

Good to see TfL starting Sunday 4tph from day one on West Anglia. That used to annoy me when I lived in Stoke Newington, half hourly trains with 2 running through in an inner London suburb.

Yep, all part of the AGA / TfL LOROL split. Makes the off peak times of the Chingford / Enfield / Cheshunt services the same seven days a week. The Lea Valley stations get a better service too linking to Stratford for Westfield. All fine until either the Southbury line or the Lea Valley is blocked by engineering work.

 

[louis97]

Looks like one of the Bournemouth-Manchesters is being diverted to Leeds on Saturdays...

http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/P35787/2015-05-23

That's a regular thing in the summer, because of the Newquay - Manchester service, therefore a Bournemouth - Manchester is diverted to Leeds in the path of what would be the service ex Plymouth.

 

[merlodlliw]

I have searched Open Train Times for the new Cambrian and HoWL services, and put them into Excel spreadsheets so that the new timetables can be more clearly seen. There appears to be one return service missing on the HoWL at the moment. Hope these are of interest/use.

Mentioned this on another thread,last week the Minister met the Cambrian Liaison Group,the meeting was to see what was on offer including the polished timetable,however the Minister told the group "No final decision had as yet been made on the May Cambrian timetable"
This is interesting to us in Wrexham,who knows.

 

[Class 170101]

Yep, all part of the AGA / TfL LOROL split. Makes the off peak times of the Chingford / Enfield / Cheshunt services the same seven days a week. The Lea Valley stations get a better service too linking to Stratford for Westfield. All fine until either the Southbury line or the Lea Valley is blocked by engineering work.

Depends whether LOROL want to run via the Lea Valley and indeed whether they have the route knowledge to do so. Southbury diversions will be more contentious I reckon.

 

[PHILIPE]

The National Rail Booking Engine is now available for the first two days of the May Timetable without 2 ATW Heart of Wales trains included. Missing, of course, from RTT.

 

[158756]

The National Rail Booking Engine is now available for the first two days of the May Timetable without 2 ATW Heart of Wales trains included. Missing, of course, from RTT.

Looks like it still needs some work- apparently there are 6tph from Bolton to Manchester, which won't be possible.(3tph shown for the last week of the current timetable)

 

[DelW]

The National Rail Booking Engine is now available for the first two days of the May Timetable without 2 ATW Heart of Wales trains included. Missing, of course, from RTT.

I've been tracking this on RTT and now NR journey planner as well. Presumably ATW will have to produce the timetable PDFs shortly, which should be definitive on the new timings on HoWL. Does anyone here know what the deadline is for these to be available?

 

[merlodlliw]

I've been tracking this on RTT and now NR journey planner as well. Presumably ATW will have to produce the timetable PDFs shortly, which should be definitive on the new timings on HoWL. Does anyone here know what the deadline is for these to be available?

The official consultative disc was sent out by ATW on Tuesday to Customers and stakeholders, this is to look for errors etc,every County Council and Rug will have a copy along with many others, I understand we still have a connecting problem with the 0747 at Shrewsbury, this is according to National Rail,my colleagues who get the disc will report back.


Later,A message from ATW Management this morning clarifies the 0747 ex Wrexham couples at Shrewsbury for Birmingham,this was not shown on National Rail or the ATW disc sent out.

Bob