May 2015 Timetable

[SprinterMan]

The May 2015 Timetable is now available on OpenTrainTimes for all those that are interested. There are some interesting things on here, such as The new Newark to Matlock trains and Crossrail putting in an apperance.

In North Wales (focussing here because that is where I live :P ) Gerald is still running, but has picked up calls at Ruabon/Chirk/Gobowen southbound to replace the 0747 WRX-SHR and now has a handy Cross platform interchange at Shresbury (4-7) with the Birmingham train. Aberystwyth finally gets it's additional trains, and the 0810 Euston to Bangor is extended to Holyhead, and so returns to London an hour later than now. Also, ATW are trying yet again to properly get into Manchester Airport.

In East Anglia (also where I live :P ), AGA Cambridge to Stansted workings have started calling at Whittlesford Parkway.
Adam

 

[30907]

Interesting at SHR: the Cambrian gets in 0814, Gerald is out 0817, potentially very useful if technically not a connection.

 

[mikestone1952]

At present there only seem to be three down Cambrian services - 10.29, 18.31 and 20.30 with four up at 06.30, 08.30, 12.30 and 18.31, the fourth up train formed by a set ECS from Machynlleth off the 15.37 Pwllheli!
;
I think somewhere on this forum there were four each way shown and most publicity refers to four round trips.
;
Elsewhere some of the amendments on the Cumbrian are shown, but none of them shown loco and coaches.
;
Manchester-Burnley-Blackburn trains still shown only to Todmorden.

 

[PHILIPE]

The May 2015 Timetable is now available on OpenTrainTimes for all those that are interested. There are some interesting things on here, such as The new Newark to Matlock trains and Crossrail putting in an apperance.

In North Wales (focussing here because that is where I live :P ) Gerald is still running, but has picked up calls at Ruabon/Chirk/Gobowen southbound to replace the 0747 WRX-SHR and now has a handy Cross platform interchange at Shresbury (4-7) with the Birmingham train. Aberystwyth finally gets it's additional trains, and the 0810 Euston to Bangor is extended to Holyhead, and so returns to London an hour later than now. Also, ATW are trying yet again to properly get into Manchester Airport.

In East Anglia (also where I live :P ), AGA Cambridge to Stansted workings have started calling at Whittlesford Parkway.
Adam

I believe that following an uproar through the press, ATW are trying to revive the 07 47 ex Wrexham after trying to keep it's withdrawal quiet. Don't have any further details but have read about juggling sets and a unit running ECS from Crewe via Chester.

 

[Starmill]

Anything about the HoW line in there... ? Can't see.

 

[krus_aragon]

Anything about the HoW line in there... ? Can't see.

They appear to be starting from the 18th of May: here's 2V02 from Shrewsbury terminating at Llandrindod at 0610.

 

[merlodlliw]

I believe that following an uproar through the press, ATW are trying to revive the 07 47 ex Wrexham after trying to keep it's withdrawal quiet. Don't have any further details but have read about juggling sets and a unit running ECS from Crewe via Chester.

The new uproar has already started, so if this goes aheard, Gerald gets later and later into Cardiff. ATW have given the info to open train times, so can not deny they are robbing units from other areas.
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The May 2015 Timetable is now available on OpenTrainTimes for all those that are interested. There are some interesting things on here,

Thanks for the info sprinterman,

 

[berneyarms]

The new uproar has already started, so if this goes aheard, Gerald gets later and later into Cardiff. ATW have given the info to open train times, so can not deny they are robbing units from other areas.
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Thanks for the info sprinterman,

2 minutes later into Cardiff - big deal.

 

[The Planner]

ATW have given the info to open train times, so can not deny they are robbing units from other

Not ATW, this comes from NR after uploading the data.

 

[merlodlliw]

Not ATW, this comes from NR after uploading the data.

But provided by ATW to NR I would have thought.
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2 minutes later into Cardiff - big deal.

The difference between an all stopper 175 and Gerald is reduced, two minutes is two minutes, but erodes local needed services in favour of Cardiff, if it does go ahead Wrexham wont have a Birmingham service direct for six hours,all trains will go to Cardiff heading South.

 

[PHILIPE]

They appear to be starting from the 18th of May: here's 2V02 from Shrewsbury terminating at Llandrindod at 0610.

Works back from Llandrindod Wells through to Crewe as 07 57 Shrewsbury to Crewe which is currently the first working of the day for the 153.
There is a Carmarthen to Llandovery returning to Swansea and which appears to form 08 04 to Fishguard which would indicate only 1 Unit on 06 52 ex Cardiff which currently splits for Pembroke Dock and Fishguard. The pattern of the existing HOWL services are retimed to give a different spread. I haven't gone through Open Train Times in detail as I find the site rather tedious to navigate.

 

[krus_aragon]

Also, ATW are trying yet again to properly get into Manchester Airport.

And doing fairly well, too! They've got a daytime hourly service to Llandudno/Junction as well as their previous efforts late at night and first thing:

0334 CTR-MIA 0504, 0533 MIA-LLD 0801

0745 LLD-MIA 1020, 1037 MIA-LLJ 1248

0854 LLJ-MIA 1120, 1137 MIA-LLD 1406

0945 LLD-MIA 1220, 1237 MIA-LLD 1506

1044 LLD-MIA 1320, 1337 MIA-LLD 1606

1144 LLD-MIA 1420, 1437 MIA-LLD 1705

1253 LLJ-MIA 1520, 1537 MIA-LLD 1806

1849 CTR-MIA 2023, 2032 MIA-CTR 2155

1844 LLD-MIA 2121, 2132 MIA-CTR 2251

Seems that NR are happy to let them in at offpeak times now. The Loco-hauled service isn't extended. (It would arrive at the airport at ~0920 and 1620 if it did.)

 

[The Planner]

But provided by ATW to NR I would have thought.

Only their timetable bid, we do the work to make sure it works and then offer it back and upload it.
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Seems that NR are happy to let them in at offpeak times now. The Loco-hauled service isn't extended. (It would arrive at the airport at ~0920 and 1620 if it did.)

Down to the new platform at the airport, without that they still would have been told no.

 

[merlodlliw]

Only their timetable bid, we do the work to make sure it works and then offer it back and upload it.

Thanks for that, fully understand about the pathing/timings/speeds etc,etc

Bob

 

[Starmill]

Only their timetable bid, we do the work to make sure it works and then offer it back and upload it.
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Down to the new platform at the airport, without that they still would have been told no.

So with just a new platform and associated signaling works in the immediate vicinity of the Airport, the line can support all 10tph?

 

[jamieintercity]

Are expecting any major timetable change to scotrail.

 

[najaB]

Are expecting any major timetable change to scotrail.

I wouldn't expect much for this timetable change as Abellio wouldn't have had much (any?) input into it. There's the Borders Railway services to be added towards the end of the timetable period though.

 

[krus_aragon]

Down to the new platform at the airport, without that they still would have been told no.

I though as much. I assume that congestion at the Piccadilly throat still precludes any peak services?

 

[MCR247]

I was under the impression that the terminating trains caused more problems at piccadilly than running them to the airport would? Maybe the paths are used for peak extra TPE/NR?

 

[Thomas6187]

ATW can't run to the airport during peak because the turn around times are a lot shorter

06:50 Llandudno arrives Piccadilly at 06:44
07:50 Holyhead arrives at 07:45
08:50 arrives at 08:18 (if this went through it would stuck behind the Northern Stopper)
17:19 arrives at 16:56
17:50 arrives at 17:31
18:50 arrives at 18:30

 

[berneyarms]

But provided by ATW to NR I would have thought.
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The difference between an all stopper 175 and Gerald is reduced, two minutes is two minutes, but erodes local needed services in favour of Cardiff, if it does go ahead Wrexham wont have a Birmingham service direct for six hours,all trains will go to Cardiff heading South.

I very much doubt that anyone will be particularly concerned about a long distance train arriving at its destination 2 minutes later. Lets be realistic here.

While there is a gap in direct trains to Birmingham, there are still cross-platform connections at Shrewsbury for each train. Obviously it would be nicer to have direct connections, but there are still connecting services between the direct services at 05:45 and 11:45 at: 06:37, 07:32, 08:34, 09:42 and 10:36, each of which is a cross-platform change.

As I've said before, with any timetable change there are winners and losers, but the important thing is that all those discommoded are accommodated somehow. That is still happening - people will just have to change trains a little more often, something that people manage to do all the time in the rest of the country.

Some degree of compromise is generally needed when rolling stock is at a premium. We may yet of course see further changes if ATW can manage to juggle sets around - this certainly isn't written in stone.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I very much doubt that anyone will be particularly concerned about a long distance train arriving at its destination 2 minutes later. Lets be realistic here.

While there is a gap in direct trains to Birmingham, there are still cross-platform connections at Shrewsbury for each train. Obviously it would be nicer to have direct connections, but there are still connecting services between the direct services at 05:45 and 11:45 at: 06:37, 07:32, 08:34, 09:42 and 10:36, each of which is a cross-platform change.

As I've said before, with any timetable change there are winners and losers, but the important thing is that all those discommoded are accommodated somehow. That is still happening - people will just have to change trains a little more often, something that people manage to do all the time in the rest of the country.

Some degree of compromise is generally needed when rolling stock is at a premium. We may yet of course see further changes if ATW can manage to juggle sets around - this certainly isn't written in stone.

The point with the Shresbury to Chester line is that the primary demand for travel at the Northern end beyond Chester is to the North West of England and at the southern end beyond Shrewsbury is to the West Midlands. Yet it's increasingly being turned into part of a Holyhead to Cardiff route that has far too many trains for the actual demand for travel between north and South Wales. The current tt is not customer/demand focused.

 

[berneyarms]

The point with the Shresbury to Chester line is that the primary demand for travel at the Northern end beyond Chester is to the North West of England and at the southern end beyond Shrewsbury is to the West Midlands. Yet it's increasingly being turned into part of a Holyhead to Cardiff route that has far too many trains for the actual demand for travel between north and South Wales. The current tt is not customer/demand focused.

But the point remains - there is still a cross-platform connection out of all of those Cardiff bound trains at Shrewsbury for stations to Birmingham.

 

[Gareth Marston]

But the point remains - there is still a cross-platform connection out of all of those Cardiff bound trains at Shrewsbury for stations to Birmingham.

Where else do the trains (effectively ) go in the wrong direction at the next junction.? Cardiff is the 8th most popular destination from Wrexham County for instance. Holyhead isn't even in the top 20.

Would you advocate say all Hereford to Birmingham trains continuing to Oxford providing there was a connection to Birmingham at Worcester?

 

[The Planner]

I very much doubt that anyone will be particularly concerned about a long distance train arriving at its destination 2 minutes later. Lets be realistic here.

Whilst it may not matter on this route I rather doubt Virgin would take the same view on a Manchester or Birmingham to Euston.....

 

[Starmill]

ATW can't run to the airport during peak because the turn around times are a lot shorter

06:50 Llandudno arrives Piccadilly at 06:44
07:50 Holyhead arrives at 07:45
08:50 arrives at 08:18 (if this went through it would stuck behind the Northern Stopper)
17:19 arrives at 16:56
17:50 arrives at 17:31
18:50 arrives at 18:30

Indeed - times when the train is not sat around in Mayfield anyway. I'm much happier knowing that it is doing something, even if it isn't going to have loads of custom.

I'm sure ATW aren't bothered if there's anyone on them or not, just that they are getting their increased share of revenues from the TfGM pot, and the millions of tickets sold to Manchester Airport

 

[merlodlliw]

The point with the Shresbury to Chester line is that the primary demand for travel at the Northern end beyond Chester is to the North West of England and at the southern end beyond Shrewsbury is to the West Midlands. Yet it's increasingly being turned into part of a Holyhead to Cardiff route that has far too many trains for the actual demand for travel between north and South Wales. The current tt is not customer/demand focused.

The point you make is correct,the tt is not customer focused,the demand from Wrexham & associated stations is to the North West and West Midlands, certainly not South Wales & Holyhead.
I still find it hard to understand Wrexham losing services, yet we have WG supported services between Claebeston Rd and Fishguard carrying fresh air,plus extra WG supported services on the howl due May plus the extra services on the Cambrian from may,There are 158s that could be used on the Cambrian plying between Llandudno and Manchester all day, there is a spare 175 due to the loco haul that could be used since December,this could easily be swopped with a 158

 

[Techniquest]

You make it sound like you're losing ALL connections and trains to the West Midlands from Wrexham! I would wonder what the demand for, say, Wrexham to Wolverhampton or Birmingham is like compared to the demand for capacity from Shrewsbury to Newport/Cardiff. I would reckon the Shrewsbury to Newport sector is more of a priority than Wrexham to the West Midlands, indeed we pay high enough fares on the Marches to have a better service!

 

[berneyarms]

You make it sound like you're losing ALL connections and trains to the West Midlands from Wrexham!

That is my point exactly.

There is a certain amount of spin being put on this which I think needs to be clarified - there is still a connection every single hour to Birmingham.

Wrexham is losing one train - not "services" plural. There is an alternative being provided within 15 minutes so that each station between Wrexham and Shrewsbury has an alternative train.

While I'd be delighted to see some other alternative that maintains the service be put in place, I wish that a sense of perspective would be maintained here.

Are people seriously trying to suggest that Wrexhamites have a particular inability to walk across a platform to change trains?

Ultimately if ATW had more Class 158s then you could have more split/join at Shrewsbury to maintain direct trains in all directions and the same level of service along the Marches. But they don't.

And as I said you're ultimately going to have winners and losers with every timetable change.

 

[mikestone1952]

there is a spare 175 due to the loco haul that could be used since December,this could easily be swopped with a 158

The set released by the loco hauled working was used to strengthen the 17.50 from Manchester to 2 x 2, with its previous 3-car going to another working.