May 2022 Timetable Changes

[387star]

With reduced demand it makes sense to eliminate overlaps with other operators services especially as many of them were rarely just ORCAT raids.

Will they retain guards?

 

[Lewlew]

With reduced demand it makes sense to eliminate overlaps with other operators services especially as many of them were rarely just ORCAT raids.

It often filled a gap in the local services between Watford and MK too. Mainly during the evening peaks where the standard LNR stopping pattern is changed around to provide faster journeys from London.

 

[387star]

Pretty much all of the the Thameslink services apart from the peak extra's return to normal from May 22. Even some additional with the Welwyn - Sevenoaks coming in.

One each way to East Grinstead and Littlehampton. I think the latter had two each way pre-Covid whilst Grinstead had more

 

[Jimini]

In this case I would disagree; the direct connection at Milton Keynes offered quite an attractive option for avoiding London, particularly for those with luggage. Arguably it should even have been a FL service stopping only at principal stations between Watford and MK.

Unfortunately I see its curtailment at Watford the first step in its possible wholesale withdrawal; it was already suspended for long periods during the reduced timetables of the last year or two, and as there is still a passenger service over all parts of the route (as far as station-to-station flows are concerned), it's likely to be seen as a prime candidate for withdrawal.

That's my concern too. I do hope not -- it's a very useful connection that's stood the test of time (going back to the '90s Connex days!) for good reason. I'm going back a fair way now, but when it was Rugby / Northampton / MK / Watford / Clapham Junction / East Croydon / Gatwick / Brighton is was such a useful service, and well patronised. I do however get that the south London express nature of the service had to go to reduce conflicts south of Clapham Junction though.

 

[irish_rail]

I don’t usually comment on here , but always read the comments and info
but having to have my 2 penny worth’s lol

regarding the XC services to Newquay or Cornwall
its all wrong in my opinion that there are no direct services to Cornwall from the north of Birmingham
I live in greater manchester and travel to Cornwall every summer by train , but have to change at Bristol or Plymouth

Manchester picc has direct services to Bournemouth, your not telling me there’s more passengers travel to Bournemouth than the whole of Cornwall

why isn’t there a company who can deliver a service from Manchester to Cornwall or like many years ago Scotland via Preston to Cornwall via west coast
yes I know east coast has a Penzance service from Scotland

i reckon there is a demand for a west coast service to Cornwall from Manchester or Scotland via Preston , my opinion

Completely agree with this, the lack of services from the south west to the north west is a real let down. If only xc was a franchise to serve passengers as opposed to serving convenience of railway operation.
And Liverpool, not Manchester in an ideal world would be destination of choice from Cornwall (or Glasgow / Edinburgh via the WCML).

 

[Goldfish62]

Completely agree with this, the lack of services from the south west to the north west is a real let down. If only xc was a franchise to serve passengers as opposed to serving convenience of railway operation.
And Liverpool, not Manchester in an ideal world would be destination of choice from Cornwall (or Glasgow / Edinburgh via the WCML).

The level of service between Cornwall and Birmingham (and points north) is certainly the worst in living memory for me. There's just one service daily currently (MF) compared with a minimum of three going back decades.

 

[adrock1976]

Completely agree with this, the lack of services from the south west to the north west is a real let down. If only xc was a franchise to serve passengers as opposed to serving convenience of railway operation.
And Liverpool, not Manchester in an ideal world would be destination of choice from Cornwall (or Glasgow / Edinburgh via the WCML).

The level of service between Cornwall and Birmingham (and points north) is certainly the worst in living memory for me. There's just one service daily currently (MF) compared with a minimum of three going back decades.

A very brief sideways move of a suggested service which I have mentioned in another thread a while ago is that post HS2, a Blackpool/Preston/Liverpool - Bristol/Exeter calling points south of Crewe could be Shrewsbury, Hereford, Abergavenny (interchange with Gwent Valley Lines), Severn Tunnel Junction, Bristol TM, and stations onwards to Exeter.

This would be in addition to the ICXC via Birmingham so as to maintain the pre pandemic frequency of every 30 minutes Bristol - Birmingham section.

 

[irish_rail]

A very brief sideways move of a suggested service which I have mentioned in another thread a while ago is that post HS2, a Blackpool/Preston/Liverpool - Bristol/Exeter calling points south of Crewe could be Shrewsbury, Hereford, Abergavenny (interchange with Gwent Valley Lines), Severn Tunnel Junction, Bristol TM, and stations onwards to Exeter.

This would be in addition to the ICXC via Birmingham so as to maintain the pre pandemic frequency of every 30 minutes Bristol - Birmingham section.

I would say it should run through to the south wests major city Plymouth though, not just to Exeter.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It often filled a gap in the local services between Watford and MK too. Mainly during the evening peaks where the standard LNR stopping pattern is changed around to provide faster journeys from London.

LNWR need to provide the local services at a sensible frequency with connections at Watford for the SN service which can be cross platform in down direction. This maintains journey opportunities from stations upto MKC

 

[dk1]

18:04 Norwich-Great Yarmouth (via Acle) & 18:47 (via Reedham) return (SX) seem to have been withdrawn.

 

[Bald Rick]

Plus same on the Overground and, eventually, the Elizabeth line in terms of what had been planned pre-Covid.

both have been running at above pre Covid service levels for some time now.

 

[swt_passenger]

It often filled a gap in the local services between Watford and MK too. Mainly during the evening peaks where the standard LNR stopping pattern is changed around to provide faster journeys from London.

It seems to me the service should stand or fall on its own, and it shouldn’t really be for Southern to fill gaps in the local TOC’s service pattern, just like GWR shouldn’t have been filling gaps in Southern’s service pattern along the west coastway…

 

[Bald Rick]

LNWR need to provide the local services at a sensible frequency with connections at Watford for the SN service which can be cross platform in down direction.

up, Surely!

(Watford being in the ‘north’)

 

[pompeyfan]

Any idea what South Western Railway will change in May? Obviously they are still missing a lot of trains, such as the 2nd Guildford via Epsom, the second Weymouth, the 2nd Portsmouth Fast and extending the Salisbury stopper to Waterloo.

 

[TEW]

Any idea what South Western Railway will change in May? Obviously they are still missing a lot of trains, such as the 2nd Guildford via Epsom, the second Weymouth, the 2nd Portsmouth Fast and extending the Salisbury stopper to Waterloo.

The second Weymouth returns in May. The second Portsmouth fast should be December. The second Guildford via Epsom isn't returning. The Salisbury stopper I am not 100% sure about. Maybe December for that too.

 

[cle]

LNWR need to provide the local services at a sensible frequency with connections at Watford for the SN service which can be cross platform in down direction. This maintains journey opportunities from stations upto MKC

It sounds like this is ostensibly happening - with Trings going semi fast (Euston-WJ-HH-BK-Tring) and the former Trings slows running back up to MKC.

 

[swr444]

The second Weymouth returns in May. The second Portsmouth fast should be December. The second Guildford via Epsom isn't returning. The Salisbury stopper I am not 100% sure about. Maybe December for that too.

Any idea about the peak time extra Epsom services? The trains are currently rammed in the evening peak as they only get 2tph but they get extras in the morning peak...

 

[pompeyfan]

The second Weymouth returns in May. The second Portsmouth fast should be December. The second Guildford via Epsom isn't returning. The Salisbury stopper I am not 100% sure about. Maybe December for that too.

I would imagine the second Weymouth is the current Poole train extended? Will we see a return of the Poole stoppers? Or is Winchester as far as 2Bxx will be going from now on?

I’ll be pleased to see the 2nd Portsmouth fast return, and the 0030 off Eastleigh would be welcome but unlikely.

 

[TEW]

I would imagine the second Weymouth is the current Poole train extended? Will we see a return of the Poole stoppers? Or is Winchester as far as 2Bxx will be going from now on?

I’ll be pleased to see the 2nd Portsmouth fast return, and the 0030 off Eastleigh would be welcome but unlikely.

The second Weymouth is the Poole extended. The Poole stoppers stay terminating at Winchester. They aren't planned to return in their original format.

Any idea about the peak time extra Epsom services? The trains are currently rammed in the evening peak as they only get 2tph but they get extras in the morning peak...

Nothing planned from May. And uplift is planned from December. I think it's to 4tph in the peak. Still a reduction compared to pre covid.

 

[The exile]

It seems to me the service should stand or fall on its own, and it shouldn’t really be for Southern to fill gaps in the local TOC’s service pattern, just like GWR shouldn’t have been filling gaps in Southern’s service pattern along the west coastway…

Although it’s presumably a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation.

 

[swt_passenger]

Although it’s presumably a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation.

It probably is, yes.

 

[London Trains]

The second Guildford via Epsom isn't returning.

Presumably this is something to do with keeping all of their revenue because if it is not possible to run a full service it would make much more sense to run both services via Epsom to Guildford, and not serve Dorking/Boxhill. It would operationally be easier too.

Dorking with only 2tph Southern would very likely be fine, and in the peaks it could be served by extending the Epsom terminators.

 

[JonathanH]

Presumably this is something to do with keeping all of their revenue because if it is not possible to run a full service it would make much more sense to run both services via Epsom to Guildford, and not serve Dorking/Boxhill. It would operationally be easier too.

Dorking with only 2tph Southern would very likely be fine, and in the peaks it could be served by extending the Epsom terminators.

The thing about that is that it is only Bookham that has 1tph. The other stations all get 3tph. Bookham isn't exactly a metropolis.

Dorking probably would be fine with 2tph but equally the stations between Guildford and Effingham Junction don't need 4tph.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I wonder if the second Guildford via Epsom and second Dorking will be reinstated when 701s are all completely in service, perhaps in December 2023.

 

[shakermaker_86]

The thing about that is that it is only Bookham that has 1tph. The other stations all get 3tph. Bookham isn't exactly a metropolis.

Dorking probably would be fine with 2tph but equally the stations between Guildford and Effingham Junction don't need 4tph.

Just because Bookham isn't a "metropolis" doesn't make it acceptable that those of us who use the station have had to suffer a 66% drop in peak services (given that we also appear to have lost the 2 morning peaks to London Bridge as well), particularly with more and more people returning to the railways and with many other similar stations having seen an increase in services since last year e.g. Shepperton. How many stations going into the new May 22 timeable are still left with a 66% reduced peak service compared to March 2020? Not many I expect.

Besides serving Little and Great Bookham, Bookham station also serves us who live in West Fetcham (given that the station in Fetcham was never built in Fetcham in the 1930s even though it's large enough to warrant it's own station) so this reduction affects a number of settlements.

SWR also said in their consultation last year that Bookham would have 2tph at peak times by December 22, and in fact claimed that they were already running 2tph peak time since the May 21 which has proven to be an outright lie.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

up, Surely!

(Watford being in the ‘north’)

Argh yes - I'll have to steal your quote "Apologies for typos; sometimes I can’t see what I’m typing"

 

[Peterthegreat]

Not quite sure where to pose this question but this thread seems as good as any.

Other than the Northern Network are there any other areas in the UK where there are bus substitutions for trains?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not quite sure where to pose this question but this thread seems as good as any.

Other than the Northern Network are there any other areas in the UK where there are bus substitutions for trains?

There are still some on the Marston Vale and I think one evening round trip on the St Albans branch.

It often filled a gap in the local services between Watford and MK too. Mainly during the evening peaks where the standard LNR stopping pattern is changed around to provide faster journeys from London.

It does fill a gap in the local service - one of the MKC stoppers was removed to allow for it to be introduced when it was extended to MKC ages ago. It spent a long time as a Watford-Clapham shuttle before that, as it appears it will be once again.

I understand from on here that the new south WCML timetable* will not have the patterns changed around for the peaks, but instead will be the same all day, with peak extras simply laid on top. I forget however if this is May or December?

* If I recall, 1 Crewe, 2 Northampton (and beyond) fast to Leighton Buzzard, 2 MKC all stations, 2 Tring semifast. Which is getting close to the pre-WCRM timetable, though I think the latter may have been Hemel as Tring had no terminal platform back then.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Not quite sure where to pose this question but this thread seems as good as any.

Other than the Northern Network are there any other areas in the UK where there are bus substitutions for trains?

The St Albans Abbey route is a regular sufferer.

 

[Peterthegreat]

There are still some on the Marston Vale and I think one evening round trip on the St Albans branch.



It does fill a gap in the local service - one of the MKC stoppers was removed to allow for it to be introduced when it was extended to MKC ages ago. It spent a long time as a Watford-Clapham shuttle as it appears it will be once again.

I understand from on here that the new south WCML timetable* will not have the patterns changed around for the peaks, but instead will be the same all day, with peak extras simply laid on top. I forget however if this is May or December?

* If I recall, 1 Crewe, 2 Northampton (and beyond) fast to Leighton Buzzard, 2 MKC all stations, 2 Tring semifast. Which is getting close to the pre-WCRM timetable, though I think the latter may have been Hemel as Tring had no terminal platform back then.

Thanks. However RTT is showing the Marston Vale service as trains from May. Is this correct?