McGill's Scotland East (Midland Bluebird and Eastern Scottish)

[LothianBusesPh]

There is a photo of the new Midland Bluebird Livery and it looks really good. The bus is SN66 WGV.

https://imgur.io/a/HDjGiy1

Looks pretty much like what the Skylink livery will (maybe if rumours are true) look like, except for the cream, different tone of the blue and slightly different front.

I do imagine that they will do the ADL curve although It's annoying seeing pretty much a copy and paste from McGill's, they could've even just painted their current Glasgow livery in Cream and Green and vice versa.

I’d suggest that there’s a huge difference between adopting a colour scheme and route numbers that hadn’t been used for many years (which is what Lothian did) and copying what a current operator is doing (which is what the diagonal McGills livery appears to be doing)

Deep down you know this, hence your use of “former operator” and “old route numbers” - Lothian weren’t passing themselves off as a current operator

(Similarly, I doubt that McGills could complain if someone set up a new firm in Paisley with red/yellow buses like Clydeside once had, but they might be annoyed if you copied their blue livery?)

Sorry, didn't Lothian copy the Eastern Scottish /SMT Livery and also route numbers to try and imitate a former operator in the area?

And let's not speak about directly copying the First route x25 with 280 and 26 with 281. All of course is fair in love and war, so they say.
No use crying when the impersonator finds themselves being impersonated.

Didn't Lothian deliberately try to imitate the colours of Eastern Scottish in West lothian to the extent of even resurrecting old route numbers when they launched an attack into West Lothian? It really would be rather hypocritical to now cry wolf if another operator tries the same tactic.

Let's just clarify, other operators also use older services and nobody cares, e.g. Prentice Coaches of Haddington with the service 108. Nobody is complaining that that used to be in Cream and Green (and First Bus,) and East Coast Buses also seem to be fine using the service 113.

Let me add, that many of these places benefit from these links added, e.g. Pencaitland. After the East Lothian Bus wars ended Pencaitland wouldn't have a route because Lohtian wouldn't've kept the 44 going to Pencaitland, and It's pretty evident Tranent either with the current situation.

Another point is, by the time that Lothian Buses used the colours of Eastern Scottish, they were 10 feet under for decades!!!

The new operator hardly have their foot in the door and it has the blood boiling of the LRT loyalists.

What do you mean "LRT Loyalists?" We're just telling the truth, if McGill's didn't come in looking like Mickey Mouse by Copying the Lothian livery and causing confusion with passengers, then we'd give them a chance.

How would you like it if you owned a Bus Company, and you had a very unique and interesting livery design (e.g. Prentice Coaches and their pattern) that was stolen by Eve's Coaches after being bought by say Arriva? I know it will never happen but it is still a valid point.

 

[PaulMc7]

The only people that should be annoyed at all are the higher ups at Lothian if they even care enough to focus on anything other than what they are doing. All of this "tribalism" really isn't needed from anyone else.

West Lothian is a big enough area for 2 operators especially as they'll also both run into Edinburgh too and even Mcgills have the X22 into North Lanarkshire with Shotts. I'm far from a fan of Mcgills and I'd be shocked if they maintained the cancellation lists and social media communication to this level but they deserve a chance from everyone.

On another note, it's interesting that all services still show on First's app as if they run them but the website directs you to the new Mcgills one if you try to set your area as South East and Central Scotland.

 

[LothianBusesPh]

The only people that should be annoyed at all are the higher ups at Lothian if they even care enough to focus on anything other than what they are doing. All of this "tribalism" really isn't needed from anyone else.

West Lothian is a big enough area for 2 operators especially as they'll also both run into Edinburgh too and even Mcgills have the X22 into North Lanarkshire with Shotts. I'm far from a fan of Mcgills and I'd be shocked if they maintained the cancellation lists and social media communication to this level but they deserve a chance from everyone.

I completely get what you're saying but the fact they've already tried snubbing Lothian Buses and that Managing Director already looking like a fool with his replies about the liveries etc, there are truly people worse than First, and I am actually hoping McGill's get kicked out of Scotland East by other operators.

 

[PaulMc7]

I completely get what you're saying but the fact they've already tried snubbing Lothian Buses and that Managing Director already looking like a fool with his replies about the liveries etc, there are truly people worse than First, and I am actually hoping McGill's get kicked out of Scotland East by other operators.

From what I've read elsewhere, First had the rights to the liveries so Mcgills are completely in the right to use them as they were part of the sale. It was something that was fairly predictable to be honest. They won't get kicked out at all to be honest either so good luck with that.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

I am actually hoping McGill's get kicked out of Scotland East by other operators

I'm sure the drivers, mechanics, cleaners, clerks etc will be delighted to read this.

I completely get what you're saying but the fact they've already tried snubbing Lothian Buses and that Managing Director already looking like a fool with his replies about the liveries

Do you have a source for this?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Do you have a source for this?

Ralph Roberts has been making a few comments on Facebook about it. I don’t have them to hand but if you look through his replies in the reveal of the Eastern Scottish livery some of them probably aren’t the best.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

Ralph Roberts has been making a few comments on Facebook about it. I don’t have them to hand but if you look through his replies in the reveal of the Eastern Scottish livery some of them probably aren’t the best.

I don't do Facebook so I wouldnt know.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

All of Larbert's Scania L94UBs were taken off fleet at the end of service yesterday. Since then, 4 or 5 have already been reinstated.

Today I also noted 3 bus boards were only allocated buses until after 9am using school vehicles, which were subsequently taken off service around 2pm with no immediate replacement. Are Larbert depot short of vehicles as well as chronically short of drivers?

I don't do Facebook so I wouldnt know.

I quoted two of Ralph Roberts' comments in post #28 of this thread, if that helps.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

What do you mean "LRT Loyalists?

What I mean by that is the insufferable element amongst LRT enthusiasts who struggle to comprehend that the free market works both ways. If you a launch a competitive assault on an established operator's territory, then you have to prepare for the operator you are competing against launching an attack against you.

 

[ScotRail158725]

West Lothian is a big enough area for 2 operators especially as they'll also both run into Edinburgh too and even Mcgills have the X22 into North Lanarkshire with Shotts.

It definitely isn’t

 

[PaulMc7]

It definitely isn’t

I disagree but fair enough.

 

[Theproinsider]

What I mean by that is the insufferable element amongst LRT enthusiasts who struggle to comprehend that the free market works both ways. If you a launch a competitive assault on an established operator's territory, then you have to prepare for the operator you are competing against launching an attack against you.

That'll be an operator of first class pedigree, who, with encouragement, no doubt from the local authority, tried to provide a consistent, quality service.

Funny bunch, bus enthusiasts. You're lamenting the departure of an operator who, if they really wanted, could have injected quality, early on to repel an invasion. You're also lauding an operator of dubious background, suggesting they should regain some old battlegrounds.

How much are they charging for Glasgow to Govan? £3 single? Bit different to an operator who doesn't rinse every punter who gets on. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Observer]

All of Larbert's Scania L94UBs were taken off fleet at the end of service yesterday. Since then, 4 or 5 have already been reinstated.

Today I also noted 3 bus boards were only allocated buses until after 9am using school vehicles, which were subsequently taken off service around 2pm with no immediate replacement. Are Larbert depot short of vehicles as well as chronically short of drivers?


I quoted two of Ralph Roberts' comments in post #28 of this thread, if that helps.

Seen a few StreetLites originally from Livingston today. Is that what they replaced them with....more StreetLites of all things?

Surprised nothing spare from McGill's has rolled in yet, unless they're not going to until repaints happen, even then does it make much of a difference? The whole fleet has been a mix of liveries for years.

Larbert at the weekend did have quite a lot with "not for service" signs on the windscreens, presume those were the Solars but a few others had them on it too, including the Caetano Dart.

Depot signage remains the same today, still plenty without new numbers and still some with First stickers on them. They should have started the debranding a lot earlier than they did.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Sorry, didn't Lothian copy the Eastern Scottish /SMT Livery and also route numbers to try and imitate a former operator in the area?

And let's not speak about directly copying the First route x25 with 280 and 26 with 281. All of course is fair in love and war, so they say.
No use crying when the impersonator finds themselves being impersonated.


Didn't Lothian deliberately try to imitate the colours of Eastern Scottish in West lothian to the extent of even resurrecting old route numbers when they launched an attack into West Lothian? It really would be rather hypocritical to now cry wolf if another operator tries the same tactic.

First have only ever been bothered about there own faceless/meaningless corporate image and name sake, of course they would have no interest on any name potentially associating them back to when buses were publicly owned.

Stagecoach being the exact same.

McGills legally have the right to use such names as Eastern Scottish & Midland Bluebird, however, let’s be clear they have not renamed there West Coast operation as “Clydeside Scottish”, the original “McGills Bus Services” were particularly smaller that Clydeside Scottish was but went as far back as Western SMT, many people nowadays would not know where the McGills naming originally came from.

The exact same goes for Eastern Scottish & Midland Bluebird, legally owned names, that’s it.

Where I personally take pride in watching Lothian Country use the original Eastern Scottish colours is knowing it’s the closest thing to ever being the original through public ownership.

I can only imagine that McGills using the original names and especially the original colours suggest they’ll try and confuse the matter with those who may wait on the established Green & Cream buses..

McGills may even feel like it’s been abhorrent to see Lothian do this some years ago.

Oddly, McGills own none of the original eastern Scottish depots yet Lothians/East Coast Buses do.

I am however suspicious as to why Lothian have been repainting in Green and White, perhaps dialogue has taken place between the two.

Drivers, if McGills can’t get more of these they’ll do literally nothing to change the narrative in West Lothian that First have helped create, I can only draw comparisons between McGills and First in Glasgow, they offer nothing above each other.

Repainting in old colours and an old name so to speak won’t do anything special.

 

[ChrisPJ]

I had a look at the maps on the MSE website and there seems to be basically no connection between Livingston and the rest of the operation, is there any interworking at the Edinburgh end to the X38 ?

 

[Observer]

I had a look at the maps on the MSE website and there seems to be basically no connection between Livingston and the rest of the operation, is there any interworking at the Edinburgh end to the X38 ?

Livingston don't have anything to do with the X38 with the exception of Christmas and New Years services on behalf of West Lothian Council, if they are awarded to run them. They are separate operations.

The easy way to understand is Livingston doesn't give change, everyone else doesn't! Although we will see if that does actually change soon, awaiting clarification from McGill's regarding this.

 

[ChrisPJ]

The easy way to understand is Livingston gives change, everyone else doesn't!

thought it was the other way round?

 

[Observer]

You are correct, that was my mistake.

 

[overthewater]

I had a look at the maps on the MSE website and there seems to be basically no connection between Livingston and the rest of the operation, is there any interworking at the Edinburgh end to the X38 ?

Back in the day it did, No29 went from Falkirk to Livingston, First also had the council tender Linlithgow - Livingston etc Still surprised No1 not been extended down to Bathgate to connect with X25 etc.

 

[Theproinsider]

First have only ever been bothered about there own faceless/meaningless corporate image and name sake, of course they would have no interest on any name potentially associating them back to when buses were publicly owned.

Stagecoach being the exact same.

McGills legally have the right to use such names as Eastern Scottish & Midland Bluebird, however, let’s be clear they have not renamed there West Coast operation as “Clydeside Scottish”, the original “McGills Bus Services” were particularly smaller that Clydeside Scottish was but went as far back as Western SMT, many people nowadays would not know where the McGills naming originally came from.

The exact same goes for Eastern Scottish & Midland Bluebird, legally owned names, that’s it.

Where I personally take pride in watching Lothian Country use the original Eastern Scottish colours is knowing it’s the closest thing to ever being the original through public ownership.

I can only imagine that McGills using the original names and especially the original colours suggest they’ll try and confuse the matter with those who may wait on the established Green & Cream buses..

McGills may even feel like it’s been abhorrent to see Lothian do this some years ago.

Oddly, McGills own none of the original eastern Scottish depots yet Lothians/East Coast Buses do.

I am however suspicious as to why Lothian have been repainting in Green and White, perhaps dialogue has taken place between the two.

Drivers, if McGills can’t get more of these they’ll do literally nothing to change the narrative in West Lothian that First have helped create, I can only draw comparisons between McGills and First in Glasgow, they offer nothing above each other.

Repainting in old colours and an old name so to speak won’t do anything special.

An accurate assessment

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Seen a few StreetLites originally from Livingston today. Is that what they replaced them with....more StreetLites of all things?

Yeah, there are a few 47xxx 10.8m Streetlites that have transferred to Larbert. One of them was on the 38 today (the service that was split specifically so deckers could operate it for capacity...), and happened to be behind 2 buses that were missing in action. Needless to say it left Newmarket Street packed to the gunnels.

I suspect part of the reliability issues at Larbert may also be caused by drivers relying on the 38 to get to Falkirk from the depot. If the 38 they are "scheduled" to catch is cancelled, they can't get to Falkirk in time for their bus, hence it leaves late (or doesn't run at all).

 

[stevenedin]

The 68 had a short E200 on it today so another fleet movement.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Yeah, there are a few 47xxx 10.8m Streetlites that have transferred to Larbert. One of them was on the 38 today (the service that was split specifically so deckers could operate it for capacity...), and happened to be behind 2 buses that were missing in action. Needless to say it left Newmarket Street packed to the gunnels.

What's the difference, in the broadest sense possible, between the different lengths of Streetlites with East Scotland? As in, why buy different lengths to begin with, especially e.g. some at 10.2m and some at 10.8m?
I'd have thought it would be more economical and easier to plan for, just buying all (or the vast majority) at 10.8/11.5m and then just a very small number at 9.6m to cover the routes the longer ones physically can't get round, like the 68?

 

[Baileygirl]

What's the difference, in the broadest sense possible, between the different lengths of Streetlites with East Scotland? As in, why buy different lengths to begin with, especially e.g. some at 10.2m and some at 10.8m?
I'd have thought it would be more economical and easier to plan for, just buying all (or the vast majority) at 10.8/11.5m and then just a very small number at 9.6m to cover the routes the longer ones physically can't get round, like the 68?

The only 10.8m Streetlights bought new were the 14 plates at Larbert for the Falkirk town services. All the other short ones are second hand cascaded to Scotland East. The 68 was operated by one of the three Dennis Darts with Caetano bodywork, later by a 68 plate Optare Solo which has now left the fleet.

 

[Surreyman]

The only 10.2m Streetlights bought new were the 14 plates at Larbert for the Falkirk town services. All the other short ones are second hand cascaded to Scotland East. The 68 was operated by one of the three Dennis Darts with Caetano bodywork, later by a 68 plate Optare Solo which has now left the fleet.

I am getting confused? Are you saying that there are 3 lengths - 10.2, 10.6 and 11metre? (+ WF variants) - I thought that 10.2 was built for London.
My info may be wrong but I thought all the 10m (old 4xxxx numbers) had seats for 37?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I am getting confused? Are you saying that there are 3 lengths - 10.2, 10.6 and 11metre? (+ WF variants) - I thought that 10.2 was built for London.
My info may be wrong but I thought all the 10m (old 4xxxx numbers) had seats for 37?

First Scotland East had the 10.8m and 11.5m variants, a mix of ones that were bought new/near new, and some that had only arrived the last few years.

I think Glasgow got some second hand 10.2m ones from London.

 

[computerSaysNo]

I am getting confused? Are you saying that there are 3 lengths - 10.2, 10.6 and 11metre? (+ WF variants) - I thought that 10.2 was built for London.
My info may be wrong but I thought all the 10m (old 4xxxx numbers) had seats for 37?

Not sure if you mean in general for the lengths, but you can get the DF in lengths of 9.6, 10.2, 10.8 and 11.5 meters. If you go to the Wrightbus website you can download the information PDF for free, if you want.

 

[XAM2175]

There is a photo of the new Midland Bluebird Livery and it looks really good. The bus is SN66 WGV.
https://imgur.io/a/HDjGiy1

The design is pretty low-rent, and the typeface particularly so. Looks like it's advertising a brand of custard.

The only people that should be annoyed at all are the higher ups at Lothian if they even care enough to focus on anything other than what they are doing. All of this "tribalism" really isn't needed from anyone else.

A lot of it is really quite pathetic, honestly.

 

[Graham Alexand]

A lot of it is really quite pathetic, honestly.

I've seen phrases such as: "I will never use McGill's" or "I wouldn't use McGill's Buses if they were the last company on earth". I don't get why the "Lothian fan club" have to be so dismissive and negative about companies that aren't Lothian. For instance, if a First Bus was to break down, the "Lothian brigade" will come in slandering First for being a horrible company but, where are they if a Lothian vehicle breaks down? I like both companies, and is probably why I don't get this childish behaviour, but I really just don't see the point of it.

Another thing to note, people are complaining about daily cancellations, literally the day of takeover. What are McGill's supposed to do? They've inherited a company that has had a driver shortage for ages. This isn't an overnight fix but, referring back to the "Lothian Brigade" anything to take a jab at another operator. However, it's not only the Lothian fan club doing this, you've also got the "world revolves around them" people which cannot accept how difficult of a time it is for the industry and will constantly complain to the company, which really doesn't have control over what is happening.

At the end of the day, an operators job is to get you from A to B, which McGill's are set to do, instead of being negative and slandering their service before it has even started, give it a chance.

 

[stevenedin]

I've seen phrases such as: "I will never use McGill's" or "I wouldn't use McGill's Buses if they were the last company on earth". I don't get why the "Lothian fan club" have to be so dismissive and negative about companies that aren't Lothian. For instance, if a First Bus was to break down, the "Lothian brigade" will come in slandering First for being a horrible company but, where are they if a Lothian vehicle breaks down? I like both companies, and is probably why I don't get this childish behaviour, but I really just don't see the point of it.

Another thing to note, people are complaining about daily cancellations, literally the day of takeover. What are McGill's supposed to do? They've inherited a company that has had a driver shortage for ages. This isn't an overnight fix but, referring back to the "Lothian Brigade" anything to take a jab at another operator. However, it's not only the Lothian fan club doing this, you've also got the "world revolves around them" people which cannot accept how difficult of a time it is for the industry and will constantly complain to the company, which really doesn't have control over what is happening.

At the end of the day, an operators job is to get you from A to B, which McGill's are set to do, instead of being negative and slandering their service before it has even started, give it a chance.

I 100% agree with this and have the exact same opinion. Instead of slating each company, remember how difficult it is to run in these times and there are good and bad to both operations.

The hatred towards McGill’s before it has properly stopped is silly. We don’t know how they are going to turn out.