Medical - False ECG referral for Echocardiogram?

Discussion in 'Railway Jobs & Careers' started by Kiefer, 18 Jun 2019.

  1. Kiefer

    Kiefer Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    20 Sep 2018
    I have recently had a medical and mostly everything checked out ok except my ECG came up as an abnormality that need to be investigated. The graph/report was sent off to the Cardiologist who advised that a Echocardiogram is needed to further assess the possibility of Obstructive coronary disease and any other underlying issues. At this point I thought fair enough. I now have the option of NHS (6 week wait) or private immediate appointment/report at the cost in the region of £400.

    I was told by the TOC that if I couldn’t start in July, August and September would be fine. For this reason I was going to go via NHS. Unfortunately this had changed as the vacancies for my depot were over subscribed but my start date in July could be honoured. I’m left with the decision of my application coming to an end if I go via NHS or pay privately for a scan.

    Naturally I value my future career and paid the fee for a scan which comes back absolutely fine. Whilst there, I took it upon my self to have another ECG as I had thought if i do have this abnormality in the heart as pointed out in my medical, it should still be there. The consultant agreed and performed another ECG which came back “Normal”.

    Boom it checked out and I’m in good health.

    The question I have is am I within my right to try and pursue reimbursement of the fee I paid as the original ECG appears to have read wrong and caused this situation? I’m willing to have another ECG with Occu health to rule out a dud reading.
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. Rockhopper

    Rockhopper Member

    Messages:
    260
    Joined:
    29 Apr 2019
    If it was me I wouldn’t be quibbling over a few hundred quid on my first day in a new job.
     
  4. jmh59

    jmh59 Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    7 May 2018
    Location:
    Leeds
    I don't follow. An ECG is an Echocardiogram but your text seems to suggest you had some other scan, then another ECG? Anyway it would be difficult to prove that the first ECG was in error unless you could actually prove that it was carried out wrong or interpreted incorrectly. There may well have been some anomaly caused by stress or whatever on the day.
     
  5. BTU

    BTU Member

    Messages:
    198
    Joined:
    13 Jan 2016
    Ive seen this before and you wont get any joy from your toc, you have the job be happy with that dont give them the opportunity to show you the exit and they will if they think your are a pain in the ar** to them just suck it up and move on.
     
  6. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

    Messages:
    5,831
    Joined:
    13 Dec 2013
    Location:
    UK
    You wouldn't be in your right to claim. That was a personal choice. You will also need to pass the ECG with Occupational health regardless. We have had numerous issues with Drivers and Trainees with heart problems. Most turn out to be nothing but a few have had serious consequences. This is an area which is taken very seriously.

    I'd speak to the TOC and state you have had a different result privately and see if you can get a new medical arranged. I would also check up on their original result and find out what they come back with too.
     
  7. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

    Messages:
    2,847
    Joined:
    6 Nov 2009
    An ECG is an Electrocardiogram (where 12 leads are attached to measure your heart rhythm). An Echocardiogram is a scan of the heart, like an x-ray, which will further investigate any abnormalities shown on an ECG.
     
  8. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

    Messages:
    2,847
    Joined:
    6 Nov 2009
    To add my two pennies worth.....I wouldn’t rock the boat when I haven’t even got a contract in my hand.
     
  9. jmh59

    jmh59 Member

    Messages:
    35
    Joined:
    7 May 2018
    Location:
    Leeds
    Sorry my mistake I have absolutely no idea why I read the OPs message as electrocardiogram where it clearly says echocardiogram, thus my confusion! My excuse if I've been on track far too long today.
     
  10. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

    Messages:
    2,847
    Joined:
    6 Nov 2009
    Know the feeling! They’re both ECGs really....Silly really when you think about it :lol:
     
  11. Kiefer

    Kiefer Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    20 Sep 2018

    I would agree that requesting a new medical would be a good idea. The Dr that did my private Echocardiogram said the way leads are placed are important and also ethnicity is a factor which google seems to back up. She also mentioned the machines calibration to this fact is a area of consideration.

    The bit that gets me is that she confirmed the suggested damage detected on the original ECG can’t just disappear and if it is there it would be picked up on any ECG. This is the part I’m mainly concerned about. Which is why I think it may be an idea to request a second medical or at least another Occu health ECG to see if they results are the same to back my argument.

    Otherwise thanks for everyone’s thoughts so far some not so much but this is the internet for you XD
     
  12. Marton

    Marton Member

    Messages:
    494
    Joined:
    9 Nov 2008
    The issue here is who reported the initial ECG as abnormal. A doctor or the automatic reporting software? Undoubtedly the second was the doctor.

    The automatic reporting software does tend to produce false positives.

    Do you have both tracings? You are entitled to them and the report under the DPA.
     
  13. Kiefer

    Kiefer Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    20 Sep 2018
    The Medical examiner pointed out the abnormality as written on the ECG, then when sat with the Occu Health Dr he explained a bit more and said this must be referred to a Cardiologist who will decide if further investigation is needed. The examiner did do two readings to make sure the leads are properly connected, same result.

    I have attached the print off below. Which is the initial ECG.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

    Messages:
    2,847
    Joined:
    6 Nov 2009
    Is it automatic or does it require the user of the equipment to be able to read ECGs? (The latter is an art in itself sometimes). I suppose having it all automatic would make sense, but when I had my medical for GWR I was seen mainly by a nurse (who probably knew how to read an ECG), only seeing a doctor for a short consultation after the main medical.
     
  15. Kiefer

    Kiefer Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    20 Sep 2018
    It is automatic as the machine detects any abnormalities. Like your self, the Dr I saw after made comments and referred it to be looked at by a Cardiologist.
     
  16. Thedispatcher

    Thedispatcher Member

    Messages:
    94
    Joined:
    7 Feb 2016
    Which company was this? Do yourself a favour and look at it as an investment. You’ll make that money back before you know it. I would definitely try and give this to the company and see what they have to say, however be prepared for them to want a consultant to look at it properly which obviously could take time. Side note but count yourself lucky that it was all resolved so quickly. I had three months or so of back and forth with companies and Doctors! Good luck.
     
  17. Fred Dinenage

    Fred Dinenage Member

    Messages:
    267
    Joined:
    23 Jul 2013
    I paid £1500 for the same, ECG reading was abnormal according to the dated ( like ZX81 ) ECG machine. I was given the option of supplying what they wanted ( Heart ultrasound scan, normal ECG and treadmill ECG ) or not having the job.

    Did what they wanted, passed, gained employment.

    My private cardiologist suggested it was the elderly machine not reading my trace as “ normal “ according to it’s parameters, as everything else was fine. Other people pass on the same machine, so at least the private checks I had provided peace of mind for me that I didn’t have any underlying medical issues.

    Depends how much losing £400 bothers you. If you do pursue this and want advancement in the future, do you think you’ll be viewed favourably by chasing the money you’ve spent?

    Food for thought is all.
     
  18. The One

    The One Member

    Messages:
    203
    Joined:
    2 Apr 2010
    I’ve known people to have that medical eg with the ECG and been told all sorts of horrors story’s lost the job offer over it been referred to a specialist and been told nothing wrong with them.Obviously relief but same time sadness.But I do believe lots these probs rose from
    the ECG with the stick on not the cup suction
    All the best and as you have all clear that’s the main thing
     
  19. Highlandspring

    Highlandspring Established Member

    Messages:
    2,392
    Joined:
    14 Oct 2017
    The way I'd look at it is that the cost of the scan will be repaid the first time you work a Sunday shift.
     
  20. Kojo87

    Kojo87 Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    16 Jan 2019
    If the ECG came back as abnormal second time would a person still be able to get a job on the railway not driving but as platform staff or customer services ? Or are any cardiac issues a complete no no ?
     
  21. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

    Messages:
    2,847
    Joined:
    6 Nov 2009
    Diagnosed cardiac problems can be an issue for any safety critical role on the railway, however it’s only driver (and Guard?) roles whereby part of the medical consists of an ECG so it’s likely any problems will go undiagnosed for other jobs if that makes sense?

    I think it depends of what the diagnosis is as to whether you can carry out safety critical work anyway so it won’t automatically mean you can’t be appointed. The ‘train of thought’ I suppose is that as a driver you’re alone at the front of the train so if you suffer a cardiac arrest or heart attack etc, others may not know about it until it’s too late. The passengers and other staff on your train will usually be safe as the train is failsafe and designed to stop if there’s inactivity from the driver or if it goes though a red signal etc, but the driver, up there alone, won’t necessarily be safe. With other roles, you’ll more than likely have colleagues etc with you to quickly raise the alarm.

    I could be completely wrong of course, but that’s the common sense approach :lol:
     
  22. PearoTheHero

    PearoTheHero Member

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    3 May 2019
    Just had something similar. ECG flagged up an abnormal p wave, the results have been referred to a cardiologist and I'm waiting to see what he/she says. I've had other Echo and Electro CGs in last 3 years and all was okay after review. I'm praying that a. I'm still okay and b. The cardiologist gives it the thumbs up, safe/fit to work. I need this :)
     
  23. Boris533

    Boris533 Member

    Messages:
    75
    Joined:
    24 Jan 2019
    Sometimes a perfectly healthy heart can bring up an abnormal reading according to the machine, that’s why a cardiologist looks at it because the machine doesn’t take into account some perfectly normal heart rhythms and try’s to put it into one of its boxes. If the cardiologist says it’s fine then it’s fine it’s just a misreading from the machine and you’d be surprised how common this is, so I’ve been told.
     
  24. PearoTheHero

    PearoTheHero Member

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    3 May 2019
    Had a letter from the specialist and it's been returned as all clear...phew!!! Now to wait for my formal offer
     
  25. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

    Messages:
    2,847
    Joined:
    6 Nov 2009
    Great stuff, good to hear!
     
  26. Liam00086

    Liam00086 Member

    Messages:
    128
    Joined:
    11 Mar 2019
    Great to hear, did they give you a start date?
     
  27. PearoTheHero

    PearoTheHero Member

    Messages:
    39
    Joined:
    3 May 2019
    6th January last time I heard
     
  28. Liam00086

    Liam00086 Member

    Messages:
    128
    Joined:
    11 Mar 2019
    Oh nice one :)
     
  29. sw1ller

    sw1ller Established Member

    Messages:
    1,172
    Joined:
    4 Jan 2013
    I’ve not read the thread so apologies if it’s been covered. But get in the union on day 1. Go see them and explain the situation. If it’s medigold, I’d put my life on it that the screwed up. We’ve had 3 drivers rushed in to A&E after a medical due to them having a heart attack, only to find out the nurse got the wires mixed up or put them in the wrong place. They’re a joke. Get your money back.
     
  30. Stigy

    Stigy Established Member

    Messages:
    2,847
    Joined:
    6 Nov 2009
    You can’t really get the electrodes in the wrong place. There’s no specific order to them really.
     
  31. Eccles1983

    Eccles1983 On Moderation

    Messages:
    564
    Joined:
    4 Sep 2016

    If the leads are in the wrong order then it gives very strange readings.

    This causes nurses or hcas to call for investigations.
     

Share This Page