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Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

Bletchleyite

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We should remember that the original Class 507 branding which (although it predated the “M” symbol) included the earlier “Merseyside Transport” symbol prevalent on buses at the time, the word Merseyrail and the double arrow, so it can be done. There is no reason why you can’t display the “M” and “GBR” or the double arrow on the same train.

The original symbol of course was a stylised "loop line"!

There are two ways of doing it, I guess - GBR livery with Ms on it or Merseyrail livery with GBR logos on it. I would expect the latter, they won't be spending on repainting/revinylling unnecessarily.
 
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Skie

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No doubt Bojo will want giant union flags all over the damn things and all references to Merseyside hidden, even if the dammed things are entirely Merseytravel owned.
 

PR1Berske

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We should remember that the original Class 507 branding which (although it predated the “M” symbol) included the earlier “Merseyside Transport” symbol prevalent on buses at the time, the word Merseyrail and the double arrow, so it can be done. There is no reason why you can’t display the “M” and “GBR” or the double arrow on the same train.
Very true.
 

Meerkat

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No doubt Bojo will want giant union flags all over the damn things and all references to Merseyside hidden, even if the dammed things are entirely Merseytravel owned.
I think we’ve done this one - Merseyrail/travel relies on UKG support.
if such a lavish metro system was actually viable without UKG support every city in Britain would have one!
 

185

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negative things to say about a fleet of trains which hasn't even entered service yet.
9th January 2020 - First new 777 arrived in the UK

15 July 2021 - Not a single train has ran in passenger service. My opinion, misuse of public money, and perhaps most the worthy reason of negativity.

18 months, parked outside in Warrington.

Should be a public inquiry into that length of time - it's unforgivable compared to almost all other stock's arrival date & passenger service date.
 

Bletchleyite

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9th January 2020 - First new 777 arrived in the UK

15 July 2021 - Not a single train has ran in passenger service. My opinion, misuse of public money, and perhaps most the worthy reason of negativity.

18 months, parked outside in Warrington.

Should be a public inquiry into that length of time - it's unforgivable compared to almost all other stock's arrival date & passenger service date.

They will probably be in service for 30-40 years as a minimum. What's a year and a bit between friends?
 

Skie

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9th January 2020 - First new 777 arrived in the UK

15 July 2021 - Not a single train has ran in passenger service. My opinion, misuse of public money, and perhaps most the worthy reason of negativity.

18 months, parked outside in Warrington.

Should be a public inquiry into that length of time - it's unforgivable compared to almost all other stock's arrival date & passenger service date.
The Warrington stabling is fairly recent, certainly not 18 months!

But please, name me an entirely new train (not just an existing platform with a few customisations) that was first delivered at the start of a pandemic and then fully tested and rolled out within 18 months.

Stadler had people from their own teams and their suppliers stuck in various countries unable to travel due to national lockdowns and government restrictions. With the best will in the world you can’t work at the same pace in those conditions.
 

507021

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9th January 2020 - First new 777 arrived in the UK

15 July 2021 - Not a single train has ran in passenger service. My opinion, misuse of public money, and perhaps most the worthy reason of negativity.

18 months, parked outside in Warrington.

Should be a public inquiry into that length of time - it's unforgivable compared to almost all other stock's arrival date & passenger service date.

A global pandemic might have something to do with it...
 

185

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They will probably be in service for 30-40 years as a minimum. What's a year and a bit between friends?
30 years out of one of these modern tinfoil trains? IEP ones are already cracking apart... CAF scattering chunks around the line...?

The decline in build quality is becoming worse as years pass by.
 

option

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I think we’ve done this one - Merseyrail/travel relies on UKG support.
if such a lavish metro system was actually viable without UKG support every city in Britain would have one!

This is going way off-topic;

Everything relies on UKG support due to the way the tax system is structured, with nearly all tax collected going direct to central government.
eg. pre 2013 100% of Business Rates were collected by LAs but passed over to central gov. From 2013 they retained 50%.
(However, since then central gov has introduced extra reliefs, & there's a lot more empty retail premises)
The only other tax revenue that LAs get is Council Tax.

So, there's a situation where LAs are supposed to do 'economic development' but they don't actually benefit from the results of doing so.
Indeed, Merseytravel will be paying Business Rates on their offices, with central gov taking 50% of that.




As for GBR branding, Merseyrail isn't a franchise
 

Energy

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30 years out of one of these modern tinfoil trains? IEP ones are already cracking apart... CAF scattering chunks around the line...?

The decline in build quality is becoming worse as years pass by.
Didn't the 158s have problems with cracks? CAF are known for bad quality while Stadler units are very well built with the 755s doing good on MTIN.
 

The_Train

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A global pandemic might have something to do with it...
Indeed, I think people need to step back and remember that we have practically lost 18 months to covid with productivity being affected in all walks of life. The 777's started to arrive in the UK just 2 months before we were put under restrictions and we have pretty much been under restrictions of some sort ever since
 

HSP 2

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I do hope that they'll increase the size of the numbers, the eyes aren't as good as there used to be.
 

Arcadia77

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Announcement from Merseytravel today on the battery trials for the new 777 units:

Metro Mayor’s vision of a Merseyrail for All takes vital step forward with successful trial of new battery-powered trains​


Battery_Trains_SR_150721-9.jpg


  • Game-changing technology paves way for Merseyrail network expansion across the Liverpool City Region and beyond
  • Merseyrail services could reach as far as Wrexham and Preston
  • City Region is at the forefront of the introduction of pioneering energy efficient technology
Metro Mayor Steve Rotheram’s ambition to create a ‘Merseyrail for All’ has taken a major step forward with the successful testing of new battery powered trains in the Liverpool City Region.

The game-changing technology could allow the Merseyrail network to extend across all six city region boroughs to places like Rainhill in St Helens, Woodchurch on the Wirral and Widnes in Halton.

It could also allow the new fleet to operate as far afield as Skelmersdale, Wrexham, Warrington and Runcorn.

In the run-up to May’s elections, the Mayor pledged to deliver 'Merseyrail for All', a commitment to connecting under-served communities to the Merseyrail network.

Initially the battery-powered trains, which are considerably greener, using up to 30% less energy than the existing fleet, are set to run on services to a planned new station at Headbolt Lane, Kirkby.

The wider 'Merseyrail for All' programme could ensure every community is well served by an integrated public transport network and new and refurbished train stations are also high on the agenda.

They could include:
  • The Baltic Triangle in Liverpool
  • Carr Mill in St Helens
  • Woodchurch on the Wirral
Tram-Train technology and trackless trams will also be looked at as potential means of extending the Merseyrail network into hard-to-reach places. The technology could benefit areas such as Liverpool John Lennon Airport and Speke, Kirkby Town Centre, Southport Town Centre, Wirral Waters and the Knowledge Quarter.

“For people in some parts of our region, Liverpool can feel as far away as London. I want to change that. Merseyrail for All is my ambitious plan to extend the current network, so it reaches communities right across our city region and beyond.

“We know that our new publicly owned trains will revolutionise transport in our region but, after these battery trials, they’re going to help take it to another level entirely and ensure no community will be left behind.

“Good public transport is vital for connecting people with each other and opportunity. Our region deserves what London has had for years: a transport system that is affordable, reliable and easy for people to get about. I’m working to build one and these trains are a massive part of that.”
Steve Rotheram

Metro Mayor of the Liverpool City Region

The new trains place the Liverpool City Region at the forefront of the introduction of pioneering battery technology on passenger services.

They also put the city region in the driving seat for the decarbonisation of the rail network - aligning to the Metro Mayor’s ‘net zero carbon by 2040’ plans.

Under the battery trials, financed by the Transforming Cities Fund, one of the new class 777 trains fitted with the battery technology was tested on the Northern line.

The batteries exceeded expectations with the trains travelling up to 20 miles per run without the need for re-charging.

The battery trains would remove the need for the third ‘electric’ rail, enabling the trains to travel beyond the existing network without major track investment.
The units passed all tests during four weeks of trials on the City Region's rail network in May and June.

The Combined Authority and partners are still assessing the full impact of the Coronavirus pandemic on the programme and will provide more information regarding the roll out as soon as it has been agreed.
 

Mollman

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LeonO

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Why, when they are built as duel-voltage capable, do they need a battery to run to Rainhill and Runcorn?
my guess is that it’ll be better to have a uniform fleet of dual voltage = 3rd rail + battery units rather than having a mixture of 3rd rail + battery units and 3rd rail + overhead units.

you can’t have all three on one unit.
 

Ianno87

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9th January 2020 - First new 777 arrived in the UK

15 July 2021 - Not a single train has ran in passenger service. My opinion, misuse of public money, and perhaps most the worthy reason of negativity.

18 months, parked outside in Warrington.

Should be a public inquiry into that length of time - it's unforgivable compared to almost all other stock's arrival date & passenger service date.

Don't you know there's a pandemic on?
 

Skie

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Who likes paperwork? Because some important paperwork just got signed off!

The Office of Rail and Road have authorised the class 777 for passenger use.

Following review of your application, I can confirm that ORR grants a first authorisation under regulation 4(1)(a) of The Railways (Interoperability) Regulations 2011, as amended. This authorisation is for the placing in service of the Class 777 Electric Multiple Units numbered 777001 – 7770052 inclusive,composed of individual vehicles numbered in accordance with Appendix 1
 
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Vespa

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Saw one run past Hightown earlier about 7pm ish, first time I seen it run on the mainline, did seem quieter than the current fleet.
 

Skie

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Has ASLEF?
I didn’t know ASLEF had a statutory duty to sign off new units for use on the national network :)

Saw one run past Hightown earlier about 7pm ish, first time I seen it run on the mainline, did seem quieter than the current fleet.
Yep, they’re significantly quieter than the existing units in many regards.
 

PR1Berske

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I didn’t know ASLEF had a statutory duty to sign off new units for use on the national network :)
:)

Apologies for my phrasing.

Has ASLEF done whatever it needs to so drivers can sign off on driving 777s?
 

507020

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Who likes paperwork? Because some important paperwork just got signed off!

The Office of Rail and Road have authorised the class 777 for passenger use.
As a fan of paperwork (of this nature at least) I am concerned that only the Class 777 EMUs numbered 777001-777052 have been authorised to carry passengers. Unfortunately the Headbolt Lane unit 777053 once built has not.
 

Ribbleman

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:)

Apologies for my phrasing.

Has ASLEF done whatever it needs to so drivers can sign off on driving 777s?
Unless things have changed in the last couple of months, ASLEF are waiting for the RMT to agree the role of the current guards.
 

Domh245

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Authorisation by ORR bears little relation to when a unit actually enters service, but it's an important step and occasionally the final hurdle.

ClassORR authorisation dateEntry to service
33122/2/20191/7/2019
755/330/5/201929/7/2019
74510/7/20198/1/2020
7208/6/202026/11/2020
1967/8/2020...
7011/10/2020...
 

Skie

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RMT met last week to resume talks and will be having sessions over the next few weeks to get to an agreement, based on the agreement in principle from 2019. And as Ribbleman says, until RMT talks have concluded to decide the operating model there isn’t much for ASLEF to agree to.

But as no unit is owned by Merseytravel yet, and they’ll need a few owned to begin training, they still have a bit of time to get the agreements in place.
 

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