Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[MattRat]

As no agreement with the drivers has been made. I am surprised they are putting out an estimate time frame.
At this point entry into passenger service this year looks unlikely. Best one would expect some token introduction.

Unless it's a case of "we either get them into service at that time, or we won't be able to run a service", because those 507/8 numbers keep going down, and eventually they'll be too low to run an effective service.

 

[D821]

What is it that ASLEF need to agree to? I take it that it is a bit more than "Yes, we will drive them"?

 

[Vespa]

What is it that ASLEF need to agree to? I take it that it is a bit more than "Yes, we will drive them"?

They could try doing their job instead of being awkward for the sake of it.

As the numbers of 507/8 trains goes down, pretty soon there won't be a job left for them if the operating company goes bust.

 

[irish_rail]

What is it that ASLEF need to agree to? I take it that it is a bit more than "Yes, we will drive them"?

Seeing as , along with the rest of the railway they are in dispute, its hardly surprising their not rushing to start driving these glorified trams along with the risks involved with being responsible for opening the doors. Dont forget, drivers will remember their conductor colleague who "did time" due to a certain incident at James st and so are likely to want some kind of recompense for taking on additional duties.

They could try doing their job instead of being awkward for the sake of it.

As the numbers of 507/8 trains goes down, pretty soon there won't be a job left for them if the operating company goes bust.

That's merseyrails fault for sending the things off lease. Absolutely scandalous and uncalled for.

 

[Skie]

Seeing as , along with the rest of the railway they are in dispute, its hardly surprising their not rushing to start driving these glorified trams along with the risks involved with being responsible for opening the doors. .

Merseyrail drivers aren’t in dispute. It’s purely a negotiation on new ways of working. Which will include considerations about the added responsibilities. Definitely less acrimonious than the guards issue.

 

[Fokx]

They could try doing their job instead of being awkward for the sake of it.

As the numbers of 507/8 trains goes down, pretty soon there won't be a job left for them if the operating company goes bust.

They are doing their job .

The responsibility of the union is to represent the views and opinions of their memebers, not that of the company the members work for.

It’s a new fleet with new technology, new risks, new responsibilities and new method of working. Every detail must be signed off mutually.

 

[Peter Sarf]

............................................

That's merseyrails fault for sending the things off lease. Absolutely scandalous and uncalled for.

Perhaps it follows that Merseyrail should not have ordered new trains if the 507s & 508s should be kept. The least of it is they cannot pay for both those and the 777s.

 

[Sam 76]

Perhaps it follows that Merseyrail should not have ordered new trains if the 507s & 508s should be kept. The least of it is they cannot pay for both those and the 777s.

I imagine also that the older trains now are getting to the point where some can’t go for longer without major overhaul. Which would be a waste of money only to be withdrawn weeks or months later

 

[XAM2175]

... these glorified trams ...

Do you know any other tunes?

 

[Peter Sarf]

I imagine also that the older trains now are getting to the point where some can’t go for longer without major overhaul. Which would be a waste of money only to be withdrawn weeks or months later

Indeed it would be a scandalous waste of precious resources which should be uncalled for given that the new trains will bring such long overdue improvements.

Seeing as , along with the rest of the railway they are in dispute, its hardly surprising their not rushing to start driving these glorified trams along with the risks involved with being responsible for opening the doors. Dont forget, drivers will remember their conductor colleague who "did time" due to a certain incident at James st and so are likely to want some kind of recompense for taking on additional duties.


.............................................

Being Stadler I expect these will be rather good trains (or whatever anyone wants to call them). They really are good from what I have experienced and heard.

Down here in Southern land, a far larger network, we have had drivers operating the doors for years on longer trains. Not much evidence of anything dangerous happening down here. Perhaps it was staff attitude that resulted in a conviction. To be fair some passengers can be rather "testing" but the staff just have to maintain a professional approach.

 

[irish_rail]

Do you know any other tunes?

Its my personal opinion. Hideous doesn't come close they are a whole new kind of ugly, but what do I care I don't have reason to use them.
I'm also not convinced the people of Merseyside will be quite so happy to get trams instead of trains, the current fleet and service is pretty popular up there overall.

 

[TRAX]

Its my personal opinion. Hideous doesn't come close they are a whole new kind of ugly, but what do I care I don't have reason to use them.
I'm also not convinced the people of Merseyside will be quite so happy to get trams instead of trains, the current fleet and service is pretty popular up there overall.

You might need a little refresher on what the differences are between tram and train.

 

[the sniper]

Down here in Southern land, a far larger network, we have had drivers operating the doors for years on longer trains. Not much evidence of anything dangerous happening down here. Perhaps it was staff attitude that resulted in a conviction. To be fair some passengers can be rather "testing" but the staff just have to maintain a professional approach.

Anyone down there who's had (or nearly had) a career/liberty threating operating incident 'doing the doors', or know of those who have, probably won't see doing the doors with the same irreverence as random people on the internet...

 

[Fokx]

I'm also not convinced the people of Merseyside will be quite so happy to get trams instead of trains, the current fleet and service is pretty popular up there overall.

The feedback on the 777 stock has been more than great from the Merseyside passenger perspective. The spec aligns with the needs and wants of passengers, with their design incorporating passenger feedback from the type of tables used to seating layouts.

I’m assuming you’ve not read any of the articles or the comments about said trains on both local press or Merseyrail’s social pages from the demonstrations at Southport and Dummy at Lime Street?

The only thing that has received negative attention is the lack of toilets, but in my option they’re not an absolute necessity for the work they are due to operate

 

[Vespa]

The only thing that has received negative attention is the lack of toilets, but in my option they’re not an absolute necessity for the work they are due to operate

Given the expected frequency of the trains, if you needed to, you can get off at a station with toilet facilities then wait for the next train.

 

[Kite159]

Given the expected frequency of the trains, if you needed to, you can get off at a station with toilet facilities then wait for the next train.

And unlike some of the stations served by on the stoppers between Reading & Paddington which went from trains with toilets (165/166 & 387s) to trains without bogs (345s), its not like the existing trains had toilets in the first place.

 

[Sam 76]

Its my personal opinion. Hideous doesn't come close they are a whole new kind of ugly, but what do I care I don't have reason to use them.
I'm also not convinced the people of Merseyside will be quite so happy to get trams instead of trains, the current fleet and service is pretty popular up there overall.

They look different yes but having been on them at the showing days they are far and away better than the current stock in terms of design.

 

[rg177]

777034 currently sat at St Margarethen outside the Stadler works looking very shiny indeed.

 

[XAM2175]

Its my personal opinion. Hideous doesn't come close they are a whole new kind of ugly, but what do I care I don't have reason to use them.
I'm also not convinced the people of Merseyside will be quite so happy to get trams instead of trains, the current fleet and service is pretty popular up there overall.

Considering them to be ugly is indeed subjective and entirely your prerogative. Considering them to be trams, however, is objectively wrong and just makes you look silly.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Anyone down there who's had (or nearly had) a career/liberty threating operating incident 'doing the doors', or know of those who have, probably won't see doing the doors with the same irreverence as random people on the internet...

Begs the question, have there been any such incidents in the SE ?. Or at least how many on a busier network than Merseyrail.

Considering them to be ugly is indeed subjective and entirely your prerogative. Considering them to be trams, however, is objectively wrong and just makes you look silly.

Of course I live in tram land and I have to say that trams have a lot of good points. No tables on ours though !. But, I agree, the 777s don't seem to be trams from what I see.

 

[John Luxton]

Considering them to be ugly is indeed subjective and entirely your prerogative. Considering them to be trams, however, is objectively wrong and just makes you look silly

Whilst I agree the 777s are trains not trams I would go as far to suggest that they do have an interior tram like feel.

I took the opportunity to have a look at one when put on display at Birkenhead North last year and definitely felt they had more of an interior affinity with modern tram design rather than modern train design

Inside they certainly feel more "tramish" along the lines of Metrolink or modern Blackpool due to the articulated open connections between cars.

The predominantly yellow livery also perpetuates the tram connection. Being so close to Manchester which had yellow Metrolink cars.

My view is that Merseyrail should have used the opportunity with the 777s to introduce a new distinctive livery.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Whilst I agree the 777s are trains not trams I would go as far to suggest that they do have an interior tram like feel.

I took the opportunity to have a look at one when put on display at Birkenhead North last year and definitely felt they had more of an interior affinity with modern tram design rather than modern train design

Inside they certainly feel more "tramish" along the lines of Metrolink or modern Blackpool due to the articulated open connections between cars.

The predominantly yellow livery also perpetuates the tram connection. Being so close to Manchester which had yellow Metrolink cars.

My view is that Merseyrail should have used the opportunity with the 777s to introduce a new distinctive livery.

That is a good point. Yes the open feel of newer metro/suburban trains is akin to trams and underground. I see that on the 378s and 710s. Also 345s and 700s even though not very suburban/metro routes. Should be viewed as an improvement security wise and encourages people to move through the train. But the downside maybe is that they are not so cosy, like intercity - although I am no longer sure there. Long gone are the days of compartment stock. I think maybe best described as "modern".

 

[HSTEd]

Anyone down there who's had (or nearly had) a career/liberty threating operating incident 'doing the doors', or know of those who have, probably won't see doing the doors with the same irreverence as random people on the internet...

The empirical evidence is that "liberty threatening operating incidents" from doors are more common on Merseyrail than on Southern networks, per train and certainly per passenger mile.

 

[Pep and co]

777034 currently sat at St Margarethen outside the Stadler works looking very shiny indeed.

Is there some more sets due over to the UK?

 

[John Luxton]

Should be viewed as an improvement security wise and encourages people to move through the train.

Fortunately the last time I encountered antisocial behaviour whilst travelling was at sea rather than by rail - perhaps because I avoid using public transport when antisocial types tend to travel?

However, whilst an much more open environment might result in moderating behviour - if things get really out of hand rather than it being confined to one car it could potentially involve the whole train.

Thus personally I would say the jury might have to be out on the security improvement.

But yes it will encourage people to move through. Often amazed that so many people over load one or two cars when the rest of the train can be quite lightly loaded.

 

[Ribbleman]

Whilst I agree the 777s are trains not trams I would go as far to suggest that they do have an interior tram like feel.

I took the opportunity to have a look at one when put on display at Birkenhead North last year and definitely felt they had more of an interior affinity with modern tram design rather than modern train design

Inside they certainly feel more "tramish" along the lines of Metrolink or modern Blackpool due to the articulated open connections between cars.

The predominantly yellow livery also perpetuates the tram connection. Being so close to Manchester which had yellow Metrolink cars.

My view is that Merseyrail should have used the opportunity with the 777s to introduce a new distinctive livery.

As the units are owned by Merseytravel they would naturally want them in their livery. Their colours of yellow with some black or grey relief have been established since bus deregulation in 1986. To make a change but still project a corporate image would mean changes to every bus shelter, bus station and other signage.

 

[John Luxton]

As the units are owned by Merseytravel they would naturally want them in their livery. Their colours of yellow with some black or grey relief have been established since bus deregulation in 1986. To make a change but still project a corporate image would mean changes to every bus shelter, bus station and other signage.

Trouble I see wandering around the Merseytravel network, particularly Merseyrail is just how badly the yellow weathers. The new trains could have been a good opportunity to make a change.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Its my personal opinion. Hideous doesn't come close they are a whole new kind of ugly, but what do I care I don't have reason to use them.
I'm also not convinced the people of Merseyside will be quite so happy to get trams instead of trains, the current fleet and service is pretty popular up there overall.

They aren't trams. They are basically a low speed FLIRT. They have a similar feel to the Swiss regional FLIRTs.

 

[MattRat]

Its my personal opinion. Hideous doesn't come close they are a whole new kind of ugly, but what do I care I don't have reason to use them.
I'm also not convinced the people of Merseyside will be quite so happy to get trams instead of trains, the current fleet and service is pretty popular up there overall.

Surely a more accurate insult would be calling them tube stock? They even both go into tunnels

 

[urbophile]

Who cares whether they are more trains than trams, or vice versa, as long as they get into service soon and do their job?