Merseyrail derailment - 28/10/2022

[karlbbb]

Merseyrail website currently stating disruption on the Northern lines between Moorfields and Sandhills due to a derailed train, and their Twitter saying an “operational incident”. Anyone have any more info?


EDIT - Link to original tweet from Merseyrail: https://twitter.com/merseyrail/status/1585969474880126979

Due to an operational incident in the Liverpool Central area- All Northern line services through Liverpool Central are currently subject to delay and possible cancellations.

 

[hexagon789]

Merseyrail website currently stating disruption on the Northern lines between Moorfields and Sandhills due to a derailed train, and their Twitter saying an “operational incident”. Anyone have any more info?

Merseyrail statement:

Acting Managing Director, Jane English said:

“Earlier this afternoon, just outside Liverpool Central, a train travelling at low speed in a non-public area of the railway tripped a safety device which is designed to lead to a controlled derailment.

“No passengers were onboard at the time and no-one was injured. We are currently working hard to move the stranded train, although its position means disruption for passengers travelling between Sandhills and Hunts Cross.

“Further information will be shared later this afternoon. Passengers are advised to check our social media feeds or website for the latest information.”

 

[66701GBRF]

Empty coaching stock derailed on trap points.

 

[SamYeager]

Seems to be an unfortunate run of derailments this year. Just pure coincidence or indicative of other issues on the railway?

 

[trainophile]

Was it one of the new trains?

 

[Crossover]

I suspect 5O29 is the culprit

Realtime Trains | 5O29 1309 Liverpool Central to Liverpool Central Revs Sdg | 28/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5O29 1309 departure from Liverpool Central to Liverpool Central Revs Sdg on 28/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Was it one of the new trains?

I very highly doubt it

 

[6Gman]

Merseyrail statement:

What is "a non-public area of the railway" in this context?

 

[ADHDTog]

What is "a non-public area of the railway" in this context?

There are stabling sidings past Liverpool Central in the up direction, towards Hunts Cross

Edit: I assume the road will be blocked until the RAIB get done? 24-48hrs minimum?

Maybe it's Merseyrails's way of retiring the old stock?!

 

[trainophile]

What is "a non-public area of the railway" in this context?

That's why I wondered if it's a new 777 on test, away from the usual through lines, although if it was I don't suppose it would have caused major passenger disruption.

 

[bramling]

What is "a non-public area of the railway" in this context?

Presumably the reversing siding. Stretching the definition of “non public” a bit given there’s a running line immediately adjacent.

 

[DanNCL]

Was it one of the new trains?

It was a 50x unit shunting from the turnback siding into the station. It was supposed to enter service at Liverpool Central heading to Ormskirk.

 

[Wezz]

It was a 50x unit shunting from the turnback siding into the station. It was supposed to enter service at Liverpool Central heading to Ormskirk.

508141

 

[66701GBRF]

There are stabling sidings past Liverpool Central in the up direction, towards Hunts Cross

Edit: I assume the road will be blocked until the RAIB get done? 24-48hrs minimum?

Maybe it's Merseyrails's way of retiring the old stock?!

No RAIB involvement.

 

[AntoniC]

I was caught up in this on my way into Liverpool.
12:50 Southport to Hunts Cross I was on was held at Bank Hall due to this incident, as I had an urgent appointent in Licensed Premises in Liverpool City Centre I walked up to the main road and caught a bus into Liverpool.
On the way home I caught a bus to Bank Hall and then a VERY crowded train home to Southport, standing all the way.
I was glad I bought the £5.70 bus and train ticket and not just the train Day Ranger today !.

 

[ADHDTog]

No RAIB involvement.

How come?

 

[Intermodal]

How come?

RAIB will only be involved if there is something which needs investigating. Obviously it's clear cut and such involvement is not required.

 

[stuart100100]

Ormskirk and Kirkby trains have started running through to Central again. Southport to Hunts Cross still terminating at Sandhills

 

[66701GBRF]

How come?

RAIB will only be involved if there is something which needs investigating. Obviously it's clear cut and such involvement is not required.

^this^

 

[Wezz]

Ormskirk and Kirkby trains have started running through to Central again. Southport to Hunts Cross still terminating at Sandhills

All services are now terminating at Sandhills again to allow for maintenance access at Central.

 

[81097]

Normal service resumed this morning on the Northern Line through Liverpool Central

 

[MR-507508]

Normal service resumed this morning on the Northern Line through Liverpool Central

Trains from Ormskirk re-timed slightly since they are not using the reversing siding to turnback at Liverpool Central today.
Planned to turnback on platform 2, after Southport bound train has departed.
Is the unit still in the reversing siding at Central?

 

[XAM2175]

Presumably the reversing siding. Stretching the definition of “non public” a bit given there’s a running line immediately adjacent.

I suspect that they wanted to convey that it was a section of line over which trains carrying passengers don't travel.

 

[SteveM70]

RAIB will only be involved if there is something which needs investigating. Obviously it's clear cut and such involvement is not required.

Sorry if I’m getting the wrong end of the stick, but doesn’t RAIB’s remit also include prevention as well as investigation? Whilst the direct cause may be “clear cut”, how can NR / Merseyrail be certain there are no learnings, either for them or the wider industry?

 

[GB]

RAIB would have been notified with the relevant information and then would decide what action they take. As this was caused by a signal passed at danger and derailed on trap points as designed, they probably decided there was nothing for them to investigate.

If it had caused further damage or risk (like Paddington a few years ago) then they more than likely would have attended.

 

[skyhigh]

Sorry if I’m getting the wrong end of the stick, but doesn’t RAIB’s remit also include prevention as well as investigation? Whilst the direct cause may be “clear cut”, how can NR / Merseyrail be certain there are no learnings, either for them or the wider industry?

RAIB would have been notified with the relevant information and then would decide what action they take. As this was caused by a signal passed at danger and derailed on trap points as designed, they probably decided there was nothing for them to investigate.

And if there's no allegation against signalling, infrastructure or rolling stock there's nothing for them to actually investigate on the ground. They know why and how the train derailed. If they wish they can review the TOC incident report and interview the driver to get further information, but there's nothing to be gained by a site visit before recovery can commence.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Sorry if I’m getting the wrong end of the stick, but doesn’t RAIB’s remit also include prevention as well as investigation? Whilst the direct cause may be “clear cut”, how can NR / Merseyrail be certain there are no learnings, either for them or the wider industry?

If trap points have worked as intended, then the prevention methods have worked as designed. ECS train on non-public track. I expect the RAIB were informed as a matter of process, but they would have declined to turn up.
If a member of the public was on board and was injured they may have been interested, but only to the extent of how the passenger came to be on board the train

 

[PupCuff]

Sorry if I’m getting the wrong end of the stick, but doesn’t RAIB’s remit also include prevention as well as investigation? Whilst the direct cause may be “clear cut”, how can NR / Merseyrail be certain there are no learnings, either for them or the wider industry?

Merseyrail will investigate the incident themselves. It's not a serious enough incident that would need RAIB to come in and do an investigation too.

 

[bramling]

Sorry if I’m getting the wrong end of the stick, but doesn’t RAIB’s remit also include prevention as well as investigation? Whilst the direct cause may be “clear cut”, how can NR / Merseyrail be certain there are no learnings, either for them or the wider industry?

Yes, however if the cause is known to be a SPAD then the TOC has their own established procedures for investigating and reporting, and ultimately addressing root causes. RAIB will certainly have been notified, but will only commence a full investigation if their initial investigations determine the potential for lessons to be learned.

 

[81097]

Trains from Ormskirk re-timed slightly since they are not using the reversing siding to turnback at Liverpool Central today.
Planned to turnback on platform 2, after Southport bound train has departed.
Is the unit still in the reversing siding at Central?

I believe so yeah, 508141

 

[karlbbb]

Trains from Ormskirk re-timed slightly since they are not using the reversing siding to turnback at Liverpool Central today.
Planned to turnback on platform 2, after Southport bound train has departed.
Is the unit still in the reversing siding at Central?

Thanks for confirming this. Went into Central last night and stopped in the tunnel before crossing over to platform 2. I had wondered if the reverse siding was inaccessible.