Met and Northern line, a question each

[NSE]

Hello,
Firstly, does anyone know why the Northern line platform at Euston, southbound on the Bank branch, is so big? I go through it and often wonder why!

Secondly, just got off the train at Wembley Park and walking along the road, I looked out over the bridge like normal, and saw a half set come off platform 6, and onto the depot lines. However it did not have a red end on the rear. I thought as half sets (unless red at both ends, I.e. an ex- Chesham shuttle/ East London line set) they could only be used inside the depot.

Any ideas would be helpful!
Thanks!

 

[Mojo]

Hello,
Firstly, does anyone know why the Northern line platform, southbound on the Bank branch, is so big? I go through it and often wonder why!

You don't say what station you are talking about, so I am assuming Euston as that matches the description. This is because there used to be an island platform here (like at Clapham Common). As part of station changes in the 1960s with the coming of the Victoria line this was changed to a two-platform layout. Similar work happened at Angel station in the 1990s.

Secondly, just got off the train at Wembley Park and walking along the road, I looked out over the bridge like normal, and saw a half set come off platform 6, and onto the depot lines. However it did not have a red end on the rear. I thought as half sets (unless red at both ends, I.e. an ex- Chesham shuttle/ East London line set) they could only be used inside the depot!

I have seen single ended units running on their own before.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, they sometimes run the single ended units on their own in order to turn them via the Watford triangle - this will usually be if one is needed to join up to, or has just split from, a double ended unit.

 

[NSE]

Oh Mojo, My bad :P

Yes indeed I mean Euston. Ahh right I thought it might have been that.
As for both you and Peter, thanks for the Met query. I'm not sure where I read that, didn't realise they could go out with a white end, does this have to be at the read end and driven from the red cab? Or can they drive white cab first?

 

[astock5000]

I'm not sure where I read that, didn't realise they could go out with a white end, does this have to be at the read end and driven from the red cab? Or can they drive white cab first?

They can be driven from either end. The white cabs can't be used on the end of a train in service as they weren't fitted with door controls etc. when the A stock was converted to OPO, but they still have all equipment that's needed for running out of service.

Yes, they sometimes run the single ended units on their own in order to turn them via the Watford triangle - this will usually be if one is needed to join up to, or has just split from, a double ended unit.

Whether the other unit is single or double ended doesn't make a difference to what way round it needs to be, a unit will need turning if it is 'A' end north and the unit it needs to be coupled to is 'D' end north (or vice versa).

 

[NSE]

Sorry, I knew they could be driven from the white cab, like in the depot, but I didn't know if they could be driven from the white end on the main line, as front isn't red, so didn't know if that wasn't allowed and the white end must trail. Not worded brilliantly, if you get me? :P

 

[astock5000]

Sorry, I knew they could be driven from the white cab, like in the depot, but I didn't know if they could be driven from the white end on the main line, as front isn't red, so didn't know if that wasn't allowed and the white end must trail. Not worded brilliantly, if you get me? :P

There isn't a rule on red fronts when running on LU track. Underground stock running on a Network Rail line must have at least a half red end, but as LU own all of the track the Met uses this doesn't apply to A stock units.

 

[mappman1000]

My have been the scrap move to Northwood sidings?

 

[astock5000]

My have been the scrap move to Northwood sidings?

The scrap move always runs as 8-car (apart from one 7-car train in the summer), and no A stock units have been withdrawn for a few weeks due to problems with the S stock.

 

[daveplumber]

NSE , What's a half set ?
New to the forum and some of the lingo is new too.

 

[trentside]

NSE , What's a half set ?
New to the forum and some of the lingo is new too.

The A Stock trains running on the Metropolitan are run in an 8 car formation, made up of two 4 car trains. All A Stock units (4 cars) have a cab at each end, but some are no longer in use as they don't have passenger door controls and other modern equipment (such as Connect radios). As a result these can't be used in passenger service. So by a 'half set' he means that one of these 4 car units was out running alone, as explained above.

Hope this helps.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I would have thought that "half set" meant any individual four car unit since they always* run in pairs in service?


*Let's leave the former Chesham shuttle and ELL out of this!

 

[NSE]

I would have thought that "half set" meant any individual four car unit since they always* run in pairs in service?


*Let's leave the former Chesham shuttle and ELL out of this!

Ahh but if the unit has been used in Chesham or ELL then it will be able to be driven on the mainline from either end as it has all the gadgets and equipment to do so, right? :P

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, but it's still only four cars long isn't it...? i.e. half a full length rake.

 

[lookingforit35]

You don't say what station you are talking about, so I am assuming Euston as that matches the description. This is because there used to be an island platform here (like at Clapham Common). As part of station changes in the 1960s with the coming of the Victoria line this was changed to a two-platform layout. Similar work happened at Angel station in the 1990s.
I have seen single ended units running on their own before.

Re Euston - some good photos on these links:

http://dewi.ca/trains/london/pix/n08_27.jpg

http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/Euston_station.html

The second link gives a really good history of Euston station, the third page of which deals with the City branch. Hope this helps.

 

[Dstock7080]

The scrap move always runs as 8-car (apart from one 7-car train in the summer), and no A stock units have been withdrawn for a few weeks due to problems with the S stock.

"usually" an 8-car, as a 4-car ran this week!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Unit 5074 was the victim this week, I believe?

 

[simple simon]

Re Euston - some good photos on these links:

http://dewi.ca/trains/london/pix/n08_27.jpg

http://www.abandonedstations.org.uk/Euston_station.html

The second link gives a really good history of Euston station, the third page of which deals with the City branch. Hope this helps.

Of the four stations, two are still in this condition.

Clapham South and Clapham Common.

Euston (Bank branch) and Angel have been rebuilt and the former trackbeds have been filled in to make extra wide platforms (hence the original question).

It seems that the reason why only these stations were built with single tunnels for both direction trains is that originally these were terminal / end of line stations where the trains reversed. I understand that the former King William Street station was also like this, although it originally had just the one track.

At Euston the former northbound track still reaches the southbound platform, but only so that it can connect into the southbound track at a crossover. This allows trains to reverse direction of travel here.

--------------------
What I am curious to know is the width of the single narrow platforms at the two Clapham stations. Is it 6ft? 7ft? Apparently the station tunnels were about 29ft 8in or 30ft in diameter, depending on the information source.
--------------------

Simon

 

[CCF23]

The scrap move always runs as 8-car (apart from one 7-car train in the summer), and no A stock units have been withdrawn for a few weeks due to problems with the S stock.

5074 went about two weeks ago to Northwood for disposal alone, although this was due to it having a fault, normally two units would go together as an 8 car as you rightly said

 

[AlterEgo]

--------------------
What I am curious to know is the width of the single narrow platforms at the two Clapham stations. Is it 6ft? 7ft? Apparently the station tunnels were about 29ft 8in or 30ft in diameter, depending on the information source.
--------------------
Simon

I was at Clapham Common recently and I'd say (without knowing) that it was about 8 or 9 feet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Clapham_Common_Tube_Station_Platforms_-_Oct_2007.jpg