Metrolink - how does it cope with football/cricket/concert events?

[dodecahedron67]

So why is it fair or legal that Metrolink would charge a commuter more if they happen to have a shift finishing at 5pm on Saturday when a football match is being played? I asked the question and neither of the two people referring to me as a 'moaner' (you being one of those) have been able to answer that question.

Running a bus service on a match day for football fans isn't comparable to Metrolink inventing a special inflated fare for match days (which apparently everyone using certain stops pay not just football fans) and not advertising it on their website.



Let's face it you and one other poster are the equivalent of a Brexiteer who refuses to engage in conversation about a valid constructive criticism about Brexit and instead just calls the other person a Remoaner. Why do we now live in a country where consumers can't have their rights respected without someone coming along and criticising them for complaining?

I hope you'll just smile if your employer breaks the law by doing things like not providing you with rest days, not paying you the minimum wage etc. After all it's obvious you don't think people have legal rights anymore isn't it?

Wow. To use your own analogy, you’re the paper that whips everyone up and makes it 1000x worse.

Commuters aren’t thick people and will avoid Old Trafford like the plague on matchdays.

As for me supposedly not thinking anyone has legal rights anymore over having to pay 50p (or whatever <£1 amount it is) more to use the met on a matchday, I have no words

Ps I have happily “pointed out” (read: kicked up a massive fuss and threatened to look at legal options) to my employer that they have workers’ rights laws before so maybe try a different angle?

 

[sprunt]

Yes, I'm moaning about people being ripped off and I don't apologise for doing so.

I'll ask again, as the question is being studiously ignored, where is this extra fare for being a football fan advertised and how and when would someone touching in after a match with a contactless card be made aware that they are paying an excess fare?

The comparison with a special bus service being put on for a football match in York is completely invalid. The football fans using the Metrolink aren't being charged for a special service, they are catching regular services.

 

[Greybeard33]

Yes, I'm moaning about people being ripped off and I don't apologise for doing so.

I'll ask again, as the question is being studiously ignored, where is this extra fare for being a football fan advertised and how and when would someone touching in after a match with a contactless card be made aware that they are paying an excess fare?

The comparison with a special bus service being put on for a football match in York is completely invalid. The football fans using the Metrolink aren't being charged for a special service, they are catching regular services.

When I use my ENCTS pass for free travel home after a match, I simply tap the pass on the handheld validator of the CSR in the turnstile booth, instead of using the fixed validators on the platform. I imagine, although I do not know for sure, that anyone wishing to pay contactless could tap in in the same way. The system would then automatically calculate the fare depending on the zone in which they tapped out, as usual.

Presumably the fixed price paper tickets are an option for those who prefer to pay cash. As previously stated, cash customers have the option of buying a return ticket or travelcard on their outward journey if they are cost conscious. In which case they are just waved through the turnstile when they show the ticket.

 

[WatcherZero]

The only situation in which you would pay more is if you used a contactless card to travel home from the match but arrived at the match by a different form of transit and chose not to exercise the option to buy a ticket from your phone with the app.

 

[sprunt]

When I use my ENCTS pass for free travel home after a match, I simply tap the pass on the handheld validator of the CSR in the turnstile booth, instead of using the fixed validators on the platform. I imagine, although I do not know for sure, that anyone wishing to pay contactless could tap in in the same way. The system would then automatically calculate the fare depending on the zone in which they tapped out, as usual.

Presumably the fixed price paper tickets are an option for those who prefer to pay cash. As previously stated, cash customers have the option of buying a return ticket or travelcard on their outward journey if they are cost conscious. In which case they are just waved through the turnstile when they show the ticket.

The only situation in which you would pay more is if you used a contactless card to travel home from the match but arrived at the match by a different form of transit and chose not to exercise the option to buy a ticket from your phone with the app.

You'd think, but that's not what's been stated by someone claiming expertise, backed up by their status as a Metrolink driver:

It used to be £3.50 regardless of destination for a match day ticket.



If you’re using a normal platform based validator yes. If you’re buying a match day ticket that is a flat fare, then no.

That last sentence is in response to my comment that someone touching in would need to touch out to avoid paying a maximum fare.

 

[Greybeard33]

That last sentence is in response to my comment that someone touching in would need to touch out to avoid paying a maximum fare.

There is a difference between (a) touching in for pay as you go contactless travel, whether on a fixed or handheld validator, and (b) paying for a paper ticket on a contactless payment terminal, whether at a ticket machine or a turnstile booth. I believe @507 001 was referring to the latter.

 

[Cowley]

Can we get back to discussing things politely in the thread please. No need to attack each other.

Thanks

 

[peterblue]

- how does it cope with the huge demand arising from these venues?

It doesn't, to be honest.

Metrolink will run more doubles, and occasionally extras, but it will still be horrendously busy.

Metrolink also tend to have more staff at City centre tram stations during busy events.

 

[Metrolink]

Metrolink like to keep quiet that ticket officers and staff keep the gates at the LC at Old Trafford shut amd force all pedestrian traffic (there is a lot on any normal weekend) to queue to be then allowed to cross to either Altrincham-bound platforms or the Ayres Rd/Warwick Rd area.

Many a time have I been caught out by these measures walking home from games (as I live in the Firswood area) and still cannot get my head around these measures. The system isn’t built for these sort of events and it decisions made like these don’t even make me question why the system becomes overwhelmed.

 

[Greybeard33]

Metrolink like to keep quiet that ticket officers and staff keep the gates at the LC at Old Trafford shut amd force all pedestrian traffic (there is a lot on any normal weekend) to queue to be then allowed to cross to either Altrincham-bound platforms or the Ayres Rd/Warwick Rd area.

Many a time have I been caught out by these measures walking home from games (as I live in the Firswood area) and still cannot get my head around these measures. The system isn’t built for these sort of events and it decisions made like these don’t even make me question why the system becomes overwhelmed.

I don't think there is a public right of way over the Old Trafford level crossing (it is a permissive path) so Metrolink is perfectly within its rights to make you queue to cross. Indeed it is for your own safety.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

There are also road bridges across the tram line (which would get you to/from Firswood) at both Great Stone Road and at Seymour Grove.

 

[507 001]

but it will still be horrendously busy.

So would any public transport system tasked with dealing with the amount of people that attend football matches.

Metrolink like to keep quiet that ticket officers and staff keep the gates at the LC at Old Trafford shut amd force all pedestrian traffic (there is a lot on any normal weekend) to queue to be then allowed to cross to either Altrincham-bound platforms or the Ayres Rd/Warwick Rd area.

Many a time have I been caught out by these measures walking home from games (as I live in the Firswood area) and still cannot get my head around these measures. The system isn’t built for these sort of events and it decisions made like these don’t even make me question why the system becomes overwhelmed.

First of all, we don’t make you queue. It’s a bottleneck and it backs up a bit.

Secondly, the staff that man these crossings are there for safety and to ensure trams can actually get through, not to ‘make you queue’.

There are many things you could legitimately criticise Metrolink for, but this one is a bit silly. Would you rather it were a free for all?

 

[markymark2000]

It’s a bottleneck and it backs up a bit.

Secondly, the staff that man these crossings are there for safety and to ensure trams can actually get through, not to ‘make you queue’.

They could build a bridge? Given the amount of events in this area, having a bridge would mean that the only time anyone needs to cross the track are less able bodied people in which case, revert to the current situation but the queues wouldn't be as long for them and you can open the gates for much shorter gaps in the trams if only a couple of people need to cross (for example, a 30 second gap in trams, you aren't going to open the gate with 200 people stood there as you won't get the gate closed again, it is safe to open the gate for a couple of people though in that gap as they will make the crossing and the gates can be safely shut in that time).

Less passengers needing to cross the tracks should mean less staff needed to manage the crowds which results in cost savings to pay for said bridge.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

They could build a bridge?

See post #101.

 

[507 001]

They could build a bridge? Given the amount of events in this area, having a bridge would mean that the only time anyone needs to cross the track are less able bodied people in which case, revert to the current situation but the queues wouldn't be as long for them and you can open the gates for much shorter gaps in the trams if only a couple of people need to cross (for example, a 30 second gap in trams, you aren't going to open the gate with 200 people stood there as you won't get the gate closed again, it is safe to open the gate for a couple of people though in that gap as they will make the crossing and the gates can be safely shut in that time).

Less passengers needing to cross the tracks should mean less staff needed to manage the crowds which results in cost savings to pay for said bridge.

There isn’t the space for a bridge in that particular location, and as MCR warrior has said, there’s a road bridge 100m away that bypasses the station altogether.

 

[sprunt]

Why did they replace the old underpass with the level crossing? It seems contrary to the typical direction of travel - if someone suggested doing that anywhere on the national rail system I get the impression from what people say on here about level crossings they'd be laughed out of the room.

 

[507 001]

Why did they replace the old underpass with the level crossing? It seems contrary to the typical direction of travel - if someone suggested doing that anywhere on the national rail system I get the impression from what people say on here about level crossings they'd be laughed out of the room.

It wasn’t a particularly safe or pleasant thing to use.

FWIW, in my 10 years at Metrolink I have never once seen anybody doing anything even close to resembling queuing to cross the track at Old Trafford, there also hasn’t been a single incident involving a pedestrian on that crossing in the 11 or so years since it replaced the subway.

 

[markymark2000]

See post #101.

There isn’t the space for a bridge in that particular location, and as MCR warrior has said, there’s a road bridge 100m away that bypasses the station altogether.

I didn't mean just for locals but also for people using the trams on event days. Them road bridges may not be far away as the crow flies but in reality, for anyone wanting to get from the Altrincham Bound stop to MUFC, you'd be adding half a mile onto all of the football fans journey, that's never going to end well. That is why I say a bridge over this level crossing. There is plenty of space here as you would remove the 'towards Altrincham' queue line from the north side of the station to put the bridge in.

 

[Metrolink]

Secondly, the staff that man these crossings are there for safety and to ensure trams can actually get through, not to ‘make you queue’.

There are many things you could legitimately criticise Metrolink for, but this one is a bit silly. Would you rather it were a free for all?

It’s small, and not a ‘criticism’ so to speak - I am aware that it is a health and safety measure nor a public right of way. That being said if you were to make match day traffic reach Old Trafford whether they are aware they will have to queue to cross to the rest of Old Trafford hardly should be able to walk against people and to the bridges that are quite rightly pointed out in other posts.

FWIW, in my 10 years at Metrolink I have never once seen anybody doing anything even close to resembling queuing to cross the track at Old Trafford, there also hasn’t been a single incident involving a pedestrian on that crossing in the 11 or so years since it replaced the subway.

Regarding your first point, you haven’t seen it as they are made to form a queue with the rest of the traffic where there is a queue (or bottleneck or whatever it so be called) which is frankly pointless and non-sensical.

I, of course, understand the idea that we are not ‘made’ to queue and the staff don’t intend a bottleneck. In a perfect world nobody wants a bottleneck or a queue, and frankly I wouldn’t mind and used to it if i were travelling on the network.

Regarding your second point, there hasn’t been an incident on the crossing as during match days there are staff (as you’ve mentioned) to manage crowds that use it, and the trams stop before the crossing which makes an incident less likely surely?

I would like to add that i don’t think it is necessary to build a bridge, though it doesn’t make much sense to stop crossings.

 

[507 001]

you'd be adding half a mile onto all of the football fans journey

Not sure how you work that out, there is a footpath that runs parallel with the track that takes you up and onto the great stone road bridge.

I’ll reiterate though that I’ve never seen anyone have to queue to cross the track at Old Trafford. This is a bit of a none issue.

There is plenty of space here as you would remove the 'towards Altrincham' queue line from the north side of the station to put the bridge in.

But then you’d have nowhere for the people to queue which would necessitate the closure of the outbound platform post match.

Regarding your first point, you haven’t seen it as they are made to form a queue with the rest of the traffic where there is a queue (or bottleneck or whatever it so be called) which is frankly pointless and non-sensical

What you have witnessed is very different to what I have witnessed, and I’ve used that foot crossing hundreds of times on match days, both pre and post match and I have never seen anything like what you describe.

Regarding your second point, there hasn’t been an incident on the crossing as during match days there are staff (as you’ve mentioned) to manage crowds that use it, and the trams stop before the crossing which makes an incident less likely surely?

Well yes, that’s the point, but there hasn’t been an incident on that crossing full stop. It can in no way be described as an unsafe crossing.

 

[Metrolink]

I’ll reiterate though that I’ve never seen anyone have to queue to cross the track at Old Trafford. This is a bit of a none issue.

Possibly it isn’t , the only reason i mentioned was because this is a thread that comments on the system during matchdays. You can call it what you’d like.

Well yes, that’s the point, but there hasn’t been an incident on that crossing full stop. It can in no way be described as an unsafe crossing.

Good thing in no way I described it as unsafe. We have clearly seen different events maybe it just depends on the match day.

 

[Greybeard33]

I’ll reiterate though that I’ve never seen anyone have to queue to cross the track at Old Trafford. This is a bit of a none issue.

I guess it depends what you call a queue. There are zigzag queuing pens on the north side of the track, opposite the outbound platform, that are the only way to get from Brian Statham Way to the crossing when the gates are closed after a match. In my experience, though I only go to cricket, not football, matches, the crowd moves steadily through the zigzags at a slow walking pace, with only short holdups when a tram is departing. After crossing to the south side, non-passenger pedestrians are free to proceed on to Warwick Road or Ayres Road. Outbound passengers enter a second set of zigzag pens leading to the ticket booths and may have to queue there some time until allowed on to the platform.

Before a match the crossing gates are open and it is Brian Statham Way itself that is choked with a sea of bodies slowing progress towards the ground.

 

[WatcherZero]

Indeed the streets in the area are closed due to the volume of pedestrians on match days so its not surprising the line crossing chokepoint was as well with the crush potential of the underpass.

 

[507 001]

Good thing in no way I described it as unsafe. We have clearly seen different events maybe it just depends on the match day.

I didn’t say you did, I am merely pointing out a fact.

There would have to be a clear reason for removing the foot crossing and adding a bridge. What we have at present works quite well, if it ain’t broke…

Indeed the streets in the area are closed due to the volume of pedestrians on match days so its not surprising the line crossing chokepoint was as well with the crush potential of the underpass.

Agreed. Theres always gonna be a bit of a bottleneck there. Removing the underpass actually made things flow better. Installing a bridge would actually be a backwards step I reckon in a lot of ways, it certainly wouldn’t flow like it does now.

The whole thing is just the nature of several tens of thousands of football fans suddenly descending on the local streets.

Could things be better? Maybe, maybe not. Given the space constraints of the site in particular I genuinely don’t see how we could do better.

We move far more people from Old Trafford than we do from the Etihad (because of the 3 lines in close proximity rather than just one) and we do so very, very quickly. It’s for that reason that I enjoy working match days. Cricket days less so, rowdy bunch that lot.

The biggest test of our crowd busting ability will be when there is a concert and a match at the Etihad. I don’t personally think this new arena has been well thought through at all.

 

[Trackman]

I saw this today about a new Metrolink service for the Etihad and the new arena.

http://ilovemanchester.com/new-tram-service-metrolinkMetrolink launches new tram service for music and football fans

A new tram service has been launched to help carry football and music fans to and from Manchester city centre.




Good news for football fans and gig-goers as Metrolink announce a new tram service to Manchester City’s Etihad stadium and the new Co-op Live music venue.

A new tram service​

The new service will replace the pre-existing Media City UK to Etihad line, with trams running from Altrincham to Piccadilly extending to the Etihad stop at night and weekends.
Trams will run after 8 pm from Monday to Friday, 6:30 pm on Saturdays, and all day on Sundays. TfGM has also announced that extra trams will be on the Altrincham and Bury lines due to increased passengers.

Co-Op Live! opening​

The new service comes just in time for the new Co-op Live music venue, due to open in April 2024.
The arena is planned to hold a capacity of 20,500 seated, and 23,500 standing. This will make it the largest indoor UK arena for maximum audience capacity.
Co-op Live, the UK’s largest live entertainment arena, is opening in April 2024 and gearing up for a huge opening season in Manchester, with 25 events already scheduled for Co-op Live’s opening month.

Manchester City’s Etihad Stadium​

Also, Manchester City’s Etihad Stadium sees around 53,000 fans visit regularly- making it the sixth biggest in the U.K.
This new announcement is a welcome improvement from these many fans.
With the huge £300m redevelopment planned for the Etihad this year, this may come as a welcome relief to those squeezing into the service on match day.

A new Metrolink line​

TfGM head of Metrolink, Danny Vaughan, said the new timetable would “provide the frequency and capacity needed to meet, sustain and continue to grow patronage on these routes:.
In another timetable change, services will go on until 1 am on Friday and Saturday nights, including double units on the Altrincham-Etihad line, Bury-Piccadilly line, and to East Didsbury.
You can find out more on The Bee Networks website by clicking here
Article by bebe Lynch

 

[northwichcat]

That release is as clear as mud.

Do they mean the existing 12 minute frequency Altrincham to Piccadilly evening service will be extended to the Eithad, instead of the MediaCity service i.e. no new service but through journey options change?

Or, do they mean Altrincham to Bury through services in the evening, with Altrincham to Eithad services on top of that?

 

[Greybeard33]

That release is as clear as mud.

Do they mean the existing 12 minute frequency Altrincham to Piccadilly evening service will be extended to the Eithad, instead of the MediaCity service i.e. no new service but through journey options change?

Or, do they mean Altrincham to Bury through services in the evening, with Altrincham to Eithad services on top of that?

The former. This is old news. The amended timetable was introduced on 2nd January.

Tram service changes

Tram services changes from Tuesday 2 January 2024

tfgm.com

 

[WatcherZero]

Adds more capacity to the route on weekday nights; Saturday evenings and all day Sunday. The Altrincham trams are doubles rather than the singles from Media City.

 

[stephen rp]

So for events (at stadium or new arena) there will be no more trams than previously (12 minute Ashton service but specials to / from Etihad Campus in between). Now it will be the Media City trams turning round till 8pm then Altrincham trams after 8pm.

No extra "specials" in between the regular 6-minute interval so no relief for the post-event queues (worse when hundreds of parking places in industrial areas are to be included in the extended "residential" parking zone).

Metrolink seem to be arguing that the turnround "siding" (allowing a tram from Manchester to stable between the running lines) cannot cope with anything more frequent, which seems unlikely.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Metrolink seem to be arguing that the turnround "siding" (allowing a tram from Manchester to stable between the running lines) cannot cope with anything more frequent, which seems unlikely.

It can’t. It takes five minutes to get a tram into the siding, driver to switch ends, and get it back out again.