Metrolink to go regional?

[stockport1]

One major omission in that - no train service to Altrincham from Cheshire! Really there should be 2tph between Northwich and Altrincham even if the Airport line gets built.

agreed.

metrolink serves a good purpose but should not be at the expense of heavy rail. put alty-mcr back to heavy rail and have an interchange at old trafford or something I say! :P

 

[Bletchleyite]

One major omission in that - no train service to Altrincham from Cheshire! Really there should be 2tph between Northwich and Altrincham even if the Airport line gets built.

I'd be interested to know how many journeys end up doing that rather than continuing to Manchester by whatever means, but that is a fairly good point. I would imagine, though, that the great majority of people going to Altrincham (rather than Manchester) from the posh bits of Cheshire beyond Altrincham are doing so in their Chelsea tractors and not using the train. A few buses a day might suffice for the rest.

Neil

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

great. more *******ization of the mid Cheshire line. I can't wait to sit on a slow bumpy tram-turd from Mouldsworth to get to Manchester.

From what I have read in many past mid-Cheshire line postings, you have no need to wait, as it appears that heavy rail versions of such trains that you so eloquently describe above are already running on that line....

 

[pemma]

I'd be interested to know how many journeys end up doing that rather than continuing to Manchester by whatever means, but that is a fairly good point. I would imagine, though, that the great majority of people going to Altrincham (rather than Manchester) from the posh bits of Cheshire beyond Altrincham are doing so in their Chelsea tractors and not using the train. A few buses a day might suffice for the rest.

Oh dear!

The number of people with 'Chelsea Tractors' is a small minority of the total population. There's more people living on council estates in Knutsford than who live in houses worth £500,000 or more but some people seem to think that minority is the majority.

I'm not sure what type of buses you're proposing and what route they're going to use. The heavily congested A556 which takes over twice as long as the train using a double decker every 20 minutes? I think most people would prefer to keep the train. For information over 200 can travel between Altrincham and Knutsford and beyond some hours.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure what type of buses you're proposing and what route they're going to use. The heavily congested A556 which takes over twice as long as the train using a double decker every 20 minutes? I think most people would prefer to keep the train. For information over 200 can travel between Altrincham and Knutsford and beyond some hours.

But did they come from Metrolink?

Neil

 

[WatcherZero]

Just followed the link from the Manchester Evening News to the Stockport Metropolitan Council, Stockport Rail Strategy, Dated January 2015. Only quickly perused through the first few pages and guess what? It recommends in the short to medium term that the class 101 trains need replacing with some urgency??

You misread, that section was talking about the reccomendations made in the earlier SEMMMS study, that was adopted in 2001 and seen a lot of road building.

 

[pemma]

But did they come from Metrolink?

It's impossible to say exactly how many people join Mid-Cheshire services at Altrincham from Metrolink and local buses. However, not all people who interchange between Metrolink and rail at Altrincham go to Manchester - some will only go as far as Timperley for South Trafford College.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's impossible to say exactly how many people join Mid-Cheshire services at Altrincham from Metrolink and local buses. However, not all people who interchange between Metrolink and rail at Altrincham go to Manchester - some will only go as far as Timperley for South Trafford College.

And that kind of passenger survey would need to be carried out, if cutting the line at Hale was proposed, to establish how to effectively serve flows that exist like those.

Neil

 

[pemma]

And that kind of passenger survey would need to be carried out, if cutting the line at Hale was proposed, to establish how to effectively serve flows that exist like those.

Unlikely it would seriously be proposed. When did a closure last occur on a section of line without much demand, never mind one with overcrowded trains?

 

[stockport1]

From what I have read in many past mid-Cheshire line postings, you have no need to wait, as it appears that heavy rail versions of such trains that you so eloquently describe above are already running on that line....

I can only dream of jumping on a nice 8 car class 350 at northwich and arrive at oxford road 25 mins later.

however I am told that we are well served with a 2 car pacer that takes around an hour. I suppose my sciatica is proof of this.

ORBITAL route for metrolink -> fallowfield loop!!! metrolink is already at one end.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unlikely it would seriously be proposed. When did a closure last occur on a section of line without much demand, never mind one with overcrowded trains?

Not in the mainland UK, but then again there haven't been similar examples of new lines being built which would take the great majority of passengers. There has been such a case in Northern Ireland, though, I think, or was it the Republic?

As for stations, yes there have. Barlaston, Wedgewood, Norton Bridge and Polesworth (the latter not officially closed but effectively so with one useless train per day).

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I can only dream of jumping on a nice 8 car class 350 at northwich and arrive at oxford road 25 mins later.

You can dream, but it ain't happening. And it'd only be every half hour, I reckon, not every 6/12 minutes per Metrolink. The trams do have their advantages (and are hugely popular), and the new incarnation of it doesn't justify the "Metroc**p" term the old one tended to get - it really isn't a low-budget exercise any more.

Neil

 

[pemma]

As for stations, yes there have. Barlaston, Wedgewood, Norton Bridge and Polesworth (the latter not officially closed but effectively so with one useless train per day).

You seemed to be proposing a line closure not just stations on the line to be closed and for trains to continue running.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You seemed to be proposing a line closure not just stations on the line to be closed and for trains to continue running.

Of a very short section (Hale-Mobberley), yes.

Neil

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

And that kind of passenger survey would need to be carried out, if cutting the line at Hale was proposed, to establish how to effectively serve flows that exist like those.

Neil

If the Chester trains were terminated at Hale, this being just a two-platform railway station, where would the terminal point be situated there for the extended Metrolink services, for excluding the existing rail car park there, unless it is proposed to convert Victoria Road in Hale for Metrolink-only usage.

Conversely, the split line scenario that exists at Kirkby and at Ormskirk could be considered.

 

[Ash Bridge]

You misread, that section was talking about the reccomendations made in the earlier SEMMMS study, that was adopted in 2001 and seen a lot of road building.

Ah ok, I suppose that will teach me to read things through more thoroughly in future!

 

[stockport1]

Not in the mainland UK, but then again there haven't been similar examples of new lines being built which would take the great majority of passengers. There has been such a case in Northern Ireland, though, I think, or was it the Republic?

As for stations, yes there have. Barlaston, Wedgewood, Norton Bridge and Polesworth (the latter not officially closed but effectively so with one useless train per day).

Neil
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


You can dream, but it ain't happening. And it'd only be every half hour, I reckon, not every 6/12 minutes per Metrolink. The trams do have their advantages (and are hugely popular), and the new incarnation of it doesn't justify the "Metroc**p" term the old one tended to get - it really isn't a low-budget exercise any more.

Neil

Id take an 8car 350 every 15 mins over a 2 car bag of spanners every 6 mins.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Before everyone gets to excited, it is worth reading the report:-

http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/documents/s57207/Appendix%201Stockport%20Rail%20Strategy.pdf

It has been produced by consultants for Stockport MBC and is not TfGM policy.
Cllr Fender (Chair of TfGM) diplomatically says it will 'inform the debate'.

The most eye-catching proposal, to my mind, is the proposed street running between Stockport Edgeley and Heaton Norris via the new Interchange. This will be a major challenge to put it mildly - presumably the A6 is out and it will have to run via King Street and George's Road or Lancashire Hill. Manchester to Stockport via Reddish is interesting as are the links to the Airport. The direct route from Stockport to East Didsbury would appear to be dropped.

 

[frodshamfella]

Just an idea that came to mind.....hypothetical of course extend Merseyrail's Chester service along the Mid Cheshire line.So heavy rail maintained, electric, more comfortable and faster than DMU, 3 or 6 car units so more space. Links from Manchester, Northwich to Wirral and Liverpool. Cost loads I guess, and all sorts of hurdles I'm sure, but seems quite a nice idea ; -)

 

[stockport1]

Just an idea that came to mind.....hypothetical of course extend Merseyrail's Chester service along the Mid Cheshire line.So heavy rail maintained, electric, more comfortable and faster than DMU, 3 or 6 car units so more space. Links from Manchester, Northwich to Wirral and Liverpool. Cost loads I guess, and also sorts of hurdles I'm sure, but seems quite a nice idea ; -)

id prefer that to a tram!

trams are for short journeys surely?
I find all this talk of metrolink to northwich bizarre!

 

[21C101]

Odd that they suggest Wigan via Atherton but not the obvious of going as far as Atherton then turning off and along the old railway to Leigh and Tyldesley converting the guided busway to a combined tramway and guided busway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

id prefer that to a tram!

trams are for short journeys surely?
I find all this talk of metrolink to northwich bizarre!

They aren't trams in the traditional sense, though, they are hybrid LRVs. Metrolink used to insist on calling them LRVs in the early days to make that point.

They are not dissimilar in fit-out to the kind of DMU used on rural branch lines in Germany and the likes, nor in concept to Pacers, which like them or loathe them are also not trams.

Neil

 

[WatcherZero]

Odd that they suggest Wigan via Atherton but not the obvious of going as far as Atherton then turning off and along the old railway to Leigh and Tyldesley converting the guided busway to a combined tramway and guided busway.

They actually suggested 5 tph to Atherton and 5tph to Wigan which would divert from the line at Atherton and go on a new street running or segregated alignment through Hindley to Wigan.

Edit: I did this map some time ago

http://imageshack.com/f/e3futuretransportj

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

They aren't trams in the traditional sense, though, they are hybrid LRVs. Metrolink used to insist on calling them LRVs in the early days to make that point.

They are not dissimilar in fit-out to the kind of DMU used on rural branch lines in Germany and the likes, nor in concept to Pacers, which like them or loathe them are also not trams.

Neil

Of course, it is worth bearing in mind the projected national tram-train trials in the Sheffield/Rotherham area, which many bodies are watching progress with not a little interest, but the constant time-extension for the actual trials to take place seem to suppose an outbreak there of the now-nationally known phrase for fiasco-style and delayed transport projects....Todmorden Chord Syndrome..

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

This latest proposal has no such advantage as the trams would use precious pathways across the main line at Stockport, which would severely restrict the number of services that could run. However it presumably make it possible to extend some of the existing tram services south of Altrincham.

I think the plan is to leave the current route before Edgeley Jn and run through the town centre, resuming along the Heaton Norris-Reddish route after the junction.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I think the plan is to leave the current route before Edgeley Jn and run through the town centre, resuming along the Heaton Mersey-Reddish route after the junction.

Can you say exactly whereabouts "before Edgeley Junction" is in the plan. Such is my medical condition at present, that I cannot access certain matters easily.

 

[D1009]

Can you say exactly whereabouts "before Edgeley Junction" is in the plan. Such is my medical condition at present, that I cannot access certain matters easily.

The plan says

A new section of Metrolink route would be created from Stockport Interchange to the start of the Stockport – Altrincham railway line immediately south of Edgeley Junction. That would include a new stop adjacent to Stockport Station, fulfilling a long-held aspiration to provide a direct public transport link between Stockport Station and Stockport Interchange.

However, having looked at Google satellite view, I can't see an easy route from the railway to the street immediately south of Edgeley Junction.

 

[mwmbwls]

The plan says However, having looked at Google satellite view, I can't see an easy route from the railway to the street immediately south of Edgeley Junction.

This is purely my interpretation based on Bing Maps Aerial Photograph.

The Metrolink line could well diverge from the incoming Altrincham line after passing under Stockholm Road Bridge it would then run through the redundant signalling centre on the site of the old Edgeley MPD and then run through the Stockport College Car Park to east of Stockport County's ground emerging on to Mercian Way before crossing Shaw Heath and taking King Street West before stopping in Station Approach on the Western side of Edgeley station before cutting under the carriage sidings on it way down to the bus station.

As a general principle tram trains will probably not be welcome on the WCML so Metrolink would probably take a separate alignment through Stockport before linking up to the Denton line after Heaton Norris junction.

Needless to say this is being debated on SSC http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1051297&page=378

 

[davyp]

Or: leave the college car park, around the Armoury Roundabout and along Greek Street. Cross the A6 to Edwards Street, left down Piccadilly and through St Peter's Square and down into Mersey Square and the bus station/interchange. Then through Mersey Square and follow the bus routes along Bridgefield Street to the bottom of Lancashire Hill. Up the Hill, across the roundabout, along Manchester Road to Ash Bridge (Hi There!!) and onto the Reddish South Line... Job done.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Or: leave the college car park, around the Armoury Roundabout and along Greek Street. Cross the A6 to Edwards Street, left down Piccadilly and through St Peter's Square and down into Mersey Square and the bus station/interchange. Then through Mersey Square and follow the bus routes along Bridgefield Street to the bottom of Lancashire Hill. Up the Hill, across the roundabout, along Manchester Road to Ash Bridge (Hi There!!) and onto the Reddish South Line... Job done.

Hi There davyp, obviously I'm just another armchair expert here, would have though that there is more room to access the Guide Bridge route at Heaton Norris e.g. On the railway side of the goods warehouse where there is currently still a rarely used siding in situ under Bowerfold Lane bridge, I could see your idea is probably about serving the main shopping areas of the town also,but that would make it a very hilly route with lots of tight curvature as opposed to just following the line of the viaduct after Stockport Station.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Metrolink line could well diverge from the incoming Altrincham line after passing under Stockholm Road Bridge it would then run through the redundant signalling centre on the site of the old Edgeley MPD and then run through the Stockport College Car Park to east of Stockport County's ground emerging on to Mercian Way before crossing Shaw Heath and taking King Street West before stopping in Station Approach on the Western side of Edgeley station before cutting under the carriage sidings on it way down to the bus station.

The car park for Stockport College is a point upon which I would like to see an answer from the college given to the debate in question as to how the use of its facility could well be compromised.