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Minimum Service Levels Bill receives Royal Assent

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Facing Back

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The map shows a gap between Huddersfield and Manchester, therefore I assumed this stretch not to be included.

During the RMT strikes, this section sometimes runs, sometimes doesn't.

I’m obviously looking at a different map. I’m not seeing a gap between Huddersfield and Manchester. Also the list of indicative priority routes in the consultation response document states Manchester huddersfield explicitly as a key route.


Ah there are 2 maps. One for priority routes which includes Man HUD and 1 for key routes which seems to refer to the Jan 2022 strikes and does not.
 
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Stockport's not on the map at https://assets.publishing.service.g...0a/msl-for-passenger-rail-consultation-ia.pdf, but I may be misinterpreting it or there may be an alternative map.
EDIT Oh yes, this is a map of the 5/6/7 January 2023 service, so historically what we had already.
In any case, it occurs to me that - based in part on some of the thoughts expressed above - we may end up with fewer services under the "minimum service level" provision than we had during many recent strikes. It's a really bad idea and poor legislation but it's not about providing a "service", it's about retaining votes.

View attachment 146120
The map on the MSL legislation is the routes Network Rail need to keep open 6am till 10pm if there is another signaller or infrastructure strike. In a TOC strike 40% of normal service is the MSL set.
 

QueensCurve

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bramling

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As a train driver all i or my colleagues need to say to their manager is that they feel under stress and not fit to drive. That would be enough.

Wouldn't need to go sick.

And of course it only needs one instance of being on the receiving end of abuse to feel stressed.
 

dk1

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And of course it only needs one instance of being on the receiving end of abuse to feel stressed.

I agree totally. If your heads not in the right place it’s not worth your career taking control of a train. Wouldn’t forgive yourself should anything happen. Just say no.
 

notverydeep

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Perhaps so, but if anything the unions should then be in favour of these proposals - it means that industrial action is still highly disruptive but doesn't cost their members much pay.
I would imagine the unions are very happy with this 'performative legislation'. This what I would suggest a week of industrial action might look like: Monday mid day to Tuesday mid day union members with last names beginning with A to M strike. Wednesday mid day to Thursday mid day members with last names beginning with N to Z strike. Four days of disruption for one day of lost pay per member. Then 'suspend the action' on Sunday evening, when the plan is set in stone and can't be changed, even though no one is now on strike and it becomes four days of disruption with no loss of pay.

The politicians surely know this, demonstrating that the purpose of the legislation is not to reduce the actual disruption to passengers, but to do something they think will be popular with their potential voters that the opposition will oppose.
 

bramling

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I would imagine the unions are very happy with this 'performative legislation'. This what I would suggest a week of industrial action might look like: Monday mid day to Tuesday mid day union members with last names beginning with A to M strike. Wednesday mid day to Thursday mid day members with last names beginning with N to Z strike. Four days of disruption for one day of lost pay per member. Then 'suspend the action' on Sunday evening, when the plan is set in stone and can't be changed, even though no one is now on strike and it becomes four days of disruption with no loss of pay.

The politicians surely know this, demonstrating that the purpose of the legislation is not to reduce the actual disruption to passengers, but to do something they think will be popular with their potential voters that the opposition will oppose.

I’ve never really got the notion that crushing unions is that popular with voters. Yes a few votes might be gained just after a rail strike from people who have been disrupted, but - and especially as a large proportion of the population don’t use trains at all - for most people it just isn’t that much of a thing.

By contrast I know plenty of people who are absolutely fuming about what this government has done to the tax burden, and certainly won’t be assuaged by a few populist gimmicks.
 

Goldfish62

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I’ve never really got the notion that crushing unions is that popular with voters. Yes a few votes might be gained just after a rail strike from people who have been disrupted, but - and especially as a large proportion of the population don’t use trains at all - for most people it just isn’t that much of a thing.

By contrast I know plenty of people who are absolutely fuming about what this government has done to the tax burden, and certainly won’t be assuaged by a few populist gimmicks.
I think the government has just done it out of spite and because it can. Not exactly unusual for this government.

I'm sure most people realise by now that the current government couldn't care less whether the railways live or die.
 

bramling

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I think the government has just done it out of spite and because it can. Not exactly unusual for this government.

Agreed. I think that’s exactly the reason. Johnson had a thing about this, for whatever reason, and this obsession doesn’t seem to have departed with him.


I'm sure most people realise by now that the current government couldn't care less whether the railways live or die.

I don’t think the current government could care less about the population full stop. That’s been made abundantly clear.
 

ainsworth74

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Does that mean Royal Assent is therefore meaningless for immediate actioning purposes and will that fact be legally stated in the Bill?
This is simply the way that legislation works these days as the Executive (i.e. Prime Minister) continues to denude Parliament of any actual power and ability to hold it to account (not that Parliament appears to be especially interested in doing so). A process that has been ongoing for a while now (as in at least a couple of decades) but seems to have accelerated since 2019 in particular to the point that Parliament often doesn't have enough work to keep it busy and what work it does have is little more than nodding through what the Prime Minister wants them to nod through.

There is no real scrutiny of legislation anymore by the Commons at any stage of a bills progress through the Commons, few MPs have the ability to actually do it anyway and even those that do hardly have the time as the Government, which sets the timetable for Commons business, only allows the bare minimum amount of time for debate in the Chamber in any case. Legislation is therefore typically full of problems which the Lords are required to iron out themselves as legislation passes through the Lords following its passage through the Commons. There is a certain irony that the unelected Lords do a far far better job of scrutinising and revising legislation to try and get it into a fit state than the Commons ever achieves. Why do you think various Prime Ministers have been keen to do away with them? They're the one bit of Parliament that still holds them properly to account!

This particular act, the Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Act 2023, is the same as many acts that come through Parliament. It is basically a vehicle to give the relevant Secretary of State powers to create regulations (Statutory Instruments to use the lingo) and it is the regulations which will actually provide the legal powers to give the Act effect. The reason for this? Well, Statutory Instruments, depending on the exact mechanism used, in theory require the consent of the Commons (and Lords) or at the very least can be blocked. But in reality it is neigh on impossible to do so once an SI is laid it will nearly always become law (or will instantly become law and won't be objected to).

No annoying votes to worry about, no whipping operation required, no amendments from disgruntled MPs yours or theirs, far less scrutiny, much easier to get on with what you want to do without ever troubling silly little Parliament.

So yes, Royal Assent was granted and gave this Act the force of law. But without the regulations it was simply a skeleton with no meat or muscle it had no effect on its own. Now the regulations will be laid and it is extremely unlikely that they will not become law as written by the relevant Secretary of State. The bulk of the Act is just amendments to existing legislation to accommodate the new powers and penalties for non-compliance. It however this tiny part of the Act which is actually the important part of the Act tucked away in a section amending the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 to add the following:

234B Power of Secretary of State to specify minimum service levels​

(1) The Secretary of State may, for the purpose of enabling work notices under section 234C to be given, make provision by regulations for levels of service in relation to strikes as respects relevant services (“minimum service regulations”).​
(2) Minimum service regulations may be framed so as to have effect in relation to any strike that takes place after the day on which the regulations come into force, even if—​
(a) notice of the strike under section 234A was given on or before the day on which the regulations come into force, or​
(b) the date of the ballot in respect of the strike was on or before the day on which the Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Act 2023 comes into force.​
(3) In this Part, “relevant services” has the meaning given by regulations made by the Secretary of State.​
(4) Regulations under subsection (3) may specify only services that fall within any of the following categories—​
(a) health services;​
(b) fire and rescue services;​
(c) education services;​
(d) transport services;​
(e) decommissioning of nuclear installations and management of radioactive waste and spent fuel;​
(f) border security.​


And, er, that's it. That's the full extent within the Act itself about the minimum service levels. (1) is the part which creates the power to make the regulations, (2) is just to make sure that any outstanding strike action is covered even if it started before the regulations came into force, (3) provides the definition of what a "relevant service" is (basically whatever the Secretary of State says it is) whilst (4) provides at least a small check on (3) to make sure that the Secretary of State can't go completely mad and specify anything at all that they like as being a "relevant service" but is still a very broad power within those selected categories of services.

The Statutory Instrument (the regulations) will now be laid I think under what is called a "negative procedure" which is to say that they take effect, if they follow convention, 21 days after they were laid. There is, in theory, a process that can be followed by either the Lords or the Commons to annual (revoke) an Statutory Instrument laid under this procedure but the last time it was successfully used was in 1979 so that seems unlikely (this is why Governments like SIs, they're very hard to stop).

But this is how Government works now! They force through an Act which gives the relevant Secretary of State wide ranging and unspecified powers which are then given effect by Statutory Instruments which are basically unscrutinised by Parliament and very difficult to stop once they've been made!
 

notverydeep

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I’ve never really got the notion that crushing unions is that popular with voters. Yes a few votes might be gained just after a rail strike from people who have been disrupted, but - and especially as a large proportion of the population don’t use trains at all - for most people it just isn’t that much of a thing.

By contrast I know plenty of people who are absolutely fuming about what this government has done to the tax burden, and certainly won’t be assuaged by a few populist gimmicks.
Agreed. It seems to me that many policies and announcements are geared towards their activists and die-hard supporters more than the wider body of floating voters (which tells us something about how they view their own chances). They seem particularly designed to be provoke the opposition, so that they can assure their rump of core support that the opposition is soft on - insert issue here.
 

bramling

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Agreed. It seems to me that many policies and announcements are geared towards their activists and die-hard supporters more than the wider body of floating voters (which tells us something about how they view their own chances). They seem particularly designed to be provoke the opposition, so that they can assure their rump of core support that the opposition is soft on - insert issue here.

That’s quite an interesting observation. I agree entirely that these gimmicks certainly aren’t the things likely to appeal to floating voters, which is what one would expect them to be doing if they were looking for electoral success. I’m not even sure it’s particularly relevant to their core vote. But members / activists quite possibly. Does this point to there being more internal turmoil within the party than is perhaps visible?
 

dk1

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I'm sure most people realise by now that the current government couldn't care less whether the railways live or die.

Rishi took to the rails yesterday. I only missed driving him on my train by half an hour so got lucky. Perhaps he’s had a change of heart lol.
 

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The map shows a gap between Huddersfield and Manchester, therefore I assumed this stretch not to be included.
The map from the DfT announcement does include York-Leeds-Huddersfield-Manchester-Chat Moss-Liverpool.
Nothing via the Calder Valley or Hope Valley, or CLC via Warrington C.

ASLEF has sent out a press release stating that the Act is "doomed":
The RMT and other unions have not have responded yet.

Hopefully before it goes through the Tories will be out of power it's just a attack on the working class.
Labour's record of reversing Tory legislation is not particularly strong.
There will always be "other priorities" when they come to power, as was the case in 1997.

Among other things, the MSL legislation covers several other sectors of government service delivery, so the "repeal" debate will not be just about rail.
It will be difficult to argue that rail is a special case.
We haven't seen the Labour manifesto yet, either.
 
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notverydeep

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That’s quite an interesting observation. I agree entirely that these gimmicks certainly aren’t the things likely to appeal to floating voters, which is what one would expect them to be doing if they were looking for electoral success. I’m not even sure it’s particularly relevant to their core vote. But members / activists quite possibly. Does this point to there being more internal turmoil within the party than is perhaps visible?
I think there is a lot of turmoil, with lots of different groups, each convinced their own particular platform (often quite different to and in some cases opposite to the preferred positions of other factions) would be most likely to lead to electoral success, even if 'success' only means limiting the degree of the defeat. This isn't too surprising - all major parties are a coalition of various strands of belief that co-exist in a way they might not if we did not have FPTP. It does seem to be leading to quite a number of policy positions (including proposals in today's King's Speech) that are openly criticised by others in the party to a greater degree than is currently seen in any of the other parties...
 

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I've looked at the document in abit more detail now.

The map only refers to priority access routes during a network rail strike and is in no way indicative of where services would operate on TOC strike days.

On TOC strike days a 40% service can operate over any routes as long as Network Rail staff are not on strike.

It does leave quite a few things unclear which will likely only be resolved when challenged in court.

For example what level of cover is Network Rail allowed to provide on the priority access routes?

Is it full access for the normal timetable or some form of more limited access?

Is the 40% TOC service levels applying only to normal timetables or normally provided extra services like those to Glastonbury?

If a TOC provides less than exactly 40% could that be challenged by user groups? Also could it be subject to challenge if it does not cover all routes?
 

Snow1964

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Is the 40% TOC service levels applying only to normal timetables or normally provided extra services like those to Glastonbury?
That question is quite clear as it refers to the National timetable normally published twice a year, Spring and December

So not specials, or pre 10pm day before amended timetables, but presumably would include any operating seasonal trains (the ones that BR use to put wiggly line down side of column)
 

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including sidings and depots within a 5 mile radius of these lines
That could bring in a few interesting scenarios of boxes being forced to open pointlessly.

I suspect those who are gleefully suggesting ways they think they can circumvent the MSLs are going to be in for a shock when their unions advise them to comply.
So Driver Bloggs walks past the picket line and books on duty. From this point surely the union can argue that they have taken the reasonable steps required by the legislation.

Driver Bloggs then says "hang on, I'm feeling a little dizzy". What happens next.
Though I'm now wondering if 40% of services could involve a lot more than 40% of staff, but with people drinking tea in between, as unless there is an optimised 40% staff/service timetable it's unlikely to scale proportionately. Which would be ideal for the Union, most members go to work and get paid, but the service is reduced by 60%.
Ironically if the DfT hadn't pushed for bitty diagrams it would be a lot easier to plan. When Liverpool crews worked through to Newcastle and back it wpuld have been quite easy to pick diagrams to be retained as they were fairly self-contained. Now that the diagrams are chopped up in multiple places, you might send them to Man Vic or Leeds but then have the issue of diagramming someone to take their train onwards. That person will have had to arrive on an earlier train so who takes that one onwards to Liverpool? And who brings in Driver Bloggs' train in? You've got to completely recast the diagrams from scratch.

I did initially look at the map and wonder why Wales was expected to have no service at all, but surely if TfW are not in dispute, their services will simply operate in full if strikes are confined to onboard TOC staff and not signallers etc?
So what happens when the signallers do go on strike? Welsh passengers can't expect a service because the government decided to prioritise Cleethropes?

I’ve never really got the notion that crushing unions is that popular with voters. Yes a few votes might be gained just after a rail strike from people who have been disrupted, but - and especially as a large proportion of the population don’t use trains at all - for most people it just isn’t that much of a thing.
I think that they looked at the fact that Maggie won a third term after crushing the NUM so they think that this is an election winner. They overlook that the 1980s were a very different time, that coal strikes affected everyone, and that the unions really had gone too far in the seventies.
 

yorksrob

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I’m obviously looking at a different map. I’m not seeing a gap between Huddersfield and Manchester. Also the list of indicative priority routes in the consultation response document states Manchester huddersfield explicitly as a key route.


Ah there are 2 maps. One for priority routes which includes Man HUD and 1 for key routes which seems to refer to the Jan 2022 strikes and does not.

My bad - I seem to have got hold of one of the strike day maps by mistake. There is a trans pennine service.

The map from the DfT announcement does include York-Leeds-Huddersfield-Manchester-Chat Moss-Liverpool.
Nothing via the Calder Valley or Hope Valley, or CLC via Warrington C.

As above.
 

baz962

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Rishi took to the rails yesterday. I only missed driving him on my train by half an hour so got lucky. Perhaps he’s had a change of heart lol.
I drove Suella Braverman back to London after the attacks in Nottingham.
I know most people don't like some of what she says , but she was very pleasant to me and her protection team didn't get in my way either. They didn't have the carriage either and allowed the public in too .
 

Goldfish62

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I think most people probably realise this legislation is going to result in a complete mess and simplify not work as intended.

With that in mind, should the Tories win next year's GE I predict that by the end of their 5-year term strikes in essential public services will be banned altogether.
 

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Ironically if the DfT hadn't pushed for bitty diagrams it would be a lot easier to plan. When Liverpool crews worked through to Newcastle and back it wpuld have been quite easy to pick diagrams to be retained as they were fairly self-contained. Now that the diagrams are chopped up in multiple places, you might send them to Man Vic or Leeds but then have the issue of diagramming someone to take their train onwards. That person will have had to arrive on takes that one onwards to Liverpool? And who brings in Driver Bloggs' in? You've got to completely recast the diagrams fr
Yes I was also thinking this. On my patch for example , the map the Dft released shows the B and H shut, so any train from Plymouth to London, rather than being able to run with a Plymouth driver to London and back, won't be able to do this (as Plymouth no longer sign Taunton to Bristol). This puts pressure on Exeter to cover more work, and the diagrams get broken up and bitty, and the whole thing falls apart like a pack of cards.
 

island

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I suspect those who are gleefully suggesting ways they think they can circumvent the MSLs are going to be in for a shock when their unions advise them to comply.

Working to rule is quite another matter and I would be all for eliminating the routine use of overtime. I can't see all staff working to rule though, there will always be times when the overtime rates on offer are too attractive to turn down.

I wonder how official that position is. It wouldn't be the first time that one hand of the RMT didn't agree with the other...
Indeed. If unions attempt to induce workers to breach their contracts of employment in a way that is not protected they can be pursued in civil courts, and you can be certain the government will do so to the maximum extent possible.
 

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Yes I was also thinking this. On my patch for example , the map the Dft released shows the B and H shut, so any train from Plymouth to London, rather than being able to run with a Plymouth driver to London and back, won't be able to do this (as Plymouth no longer sign Taunton to Bristol). This puts pressure on Exeter to cover more work, and the diagrams get broken up and bitty, and the whole thing falls apart like a pack of cards.
It's only in Network Rail strikes that the priority routes only would be open. The Berks and Hants would be open in a TOC strike.

Obviously if it's a combined strike by both this would be more of an issue.
 

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Indeed. If unions attempt to induce workers to breach their contracts of employment in a way that is not protected they can be pursued in civil courts, and you can be certain the government will do so to the maximum extent possible.
Agreed. And why would the unions risk financial ruin when there's the prospect of an incoming Labour government repealing the legislation?
 

dk1

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I drove Suella Braverman back to London after the attacks in Nottingham.
I know most people don't like some of what she says , but she was very pleasant to me and her protection team didn't get in my way either. They didn't have the carriage either and allowed the public in too .

Oh the boat was well and truly pushed out to impress the PM when travelling with us this week. I wouldn’t be rude but wouldn’t agree to make polite conversation with him either if he had boarded my train.
 

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Oh the boat was well and truly pushed out to impress the PM when travelling with us this week. I wouldn’t be rude but wouldn’t agree to make polite conversation with him either if he had boarded my train.
I would actively avoid a gig like this as knowing me I'd put my foot in it and end up with a P45.
 

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I know there is an overlap but it would be helpful if we tried to stick to discussing the actual Bill itself rather than getting embroiled in the politics of it. There are plenty of political threads over in the General Discussion section.

thanks :)
 

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I would actively avoid a gig like this as knowing me I'd put my foot in it and end up with a P45.

There was an occasion when David Cameron boarded an Underground train whilst the doors were closing and managed to get stuck, the driver (being completely unaware) then made a somewhat stern PA announcement. Not sure how Dave reacted, but nothing came of it AFAIK!
 

dk1

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I know there is an overlap but it would be helpful if we tried to stick to discussing the actual Bill itself rather than getting embroiled in the politics of it. There are plenty of political threads over in the General Discussion section.

thanks :)

Sorry!! (again)
 
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