Mistake - Northern

[CamS]

So, I got caught without a ticket going from Cottingham to Hull. I'd said that I'd left it on the train, but then admitted that I'd lied and the man took down my details.

What can I expect to happen now? I've sent an email to what I presume to be the right place (could someone post the correct email by the way?) confirming the details of what happened and expressing remorse as sincerely as I could.

Please don't just say I need to buy tickets and shouldn't have lied etc, I know that now and want to know the repercussions.

 

[bb21]

What can I expect to happen now? I've sent an email to what I presume to be the right place (could someone post the correct email by the way?) confirming the details of what happened and expressing remorse as sincerely as I could.

Who did you send the email to?

Our usual advice is not to send them an email but to wait for their letter to arrive in the post. For all they know, they might not have your details on file yet as the report may take some time to be submitted, so it would probably get ignored.

Can you provide a bit more details as to what happened exactly, and what conversation took place?

Without knowing the specifics, since you have admitted that you lied, the worst case scenario is that you are looking at a Regulation of Railways Act prosecution, a fine of up to £1000 plus possible jail terms, and a criminal record.

 

[CamS]

I sent emails to PPN Disputes and Northern Rail Customer Relations.

The conversation involved my details getting taken down and checked, and him getting an idea of what happened. He said that it was a cautionary procedure, and to await the letter in the post.

I'm a 19 year old uni student with no previous convictions or misdemeanors of any sort. What's the likely outcome of this? If it gets that far, I'd have to stump up and settle out of court because I simply can't afford to get a criminal record.

 

[SPADTrap]

I sent emails to PPN Disputes and Northern Rail Customer Relations.

The conversation involved my details getting taken down and checked, and him getting an idea of what happened. He said that it was a cautionary procedure, and to await the letter in the post.

I'm a 19 year old uni student with no previous convictions or misdemeanors of any sort. What's the likely outcome of this? If it gets that far, I'd have to stump up and settle out of court because I simply can't afford to get a criminal record.

Judging by your self created circumstances I say it isn't as simple as your choice whether your "stump up" or not. I'd seek legal advice?

 

[island]

Judging from previous posts on this board I expect you will get a notice from Northern inviting you to pay a so-called fixed penalty of £84.70 as an alternative to being prosecuted.

 

[Darandio]

Judging by your self created circumstances I say it isn't as simple as your choice whether your "stump up" or not. I'd seek legal advice?

Of course, the ball is in their court, not the OP's. Although there is every chance that this could be the outcome, to commit an offence and just automatically assume that it can be 'paid off' is a very dangerous attitude.

As bb21 has already stated, the first thing to do would be to await the letter and then post the details here. Further details of what exactly happened on the day would be helpful also.

 

[Sacro]

According to the National Rail website Cottingham doesn't have any ticket purchasing facilities, I've not used the station in a few years but I don't recall there being a ticket office either.

 

[yorkie]

According to the National Rail website Cottingham doesn't have any ticket purchasing facilities, I've not used the station in a few years but I don't recall there being a ticket office either.

There is no ticket office. There is a ticket machine (but it might not take cash) but none of this really matters to this situation, as the OP declined to purchase a ticket from the inspector, and instead pretended to have lost a ticket. So there's clear evidence for a prosecution.

Now the OP has written to Northern seeking a settlement, by the sound of it, and wants to know if they will accept it or if he will be prosecuted. That isn't a question we can answer, especially as we don't know the contents of the letter or what evidence Northern have gathered, but it sounds like an easy case for them to win, so the OP should aim to settle out of court to avoid a conviction.

Based on the feedback of others in similar situations, Northern are generally quite willing to settle, as they seem to be struggling to cope with the huge numbers of people they are pursuing these days. But few of those people are in such a clear-cut case as the OPs, and Northern may wish to make an example out of this case...

 

[CamS]

I legally travelled from Scarborough to Cottingham, but then carried on to Hull without a ticket. There is a ticket machine there now though. In my nervous haste, I think I only mentioned the Cottingham to Hull trip, hence me wanting to clarify by email.

I'm hoping that I will simply get a fine with it being my first offence, plus my age etc. The man said that they may choose not to fine me as sometimes it's not worth their while to pursue payments from those without much money such as myself.

How likely are they to press charges in this situation, and to accept an out of court settlement?

Also, how long will I normally have to wait to receive a letter?

 

[cuccir]

I think your first question is covered above. Northern very frequently offer a 'fixed penalty' of 80 pounds plus the fare due to first time cases, as an alternative to prosecution. I'd say this is the more likely outcome, but we can't predict definitely for every case, particularly where there is evidence of deliberatly avoiding paying.

The letters can take a few months to arrive I believe - wouldn't expect to hear before October!

 

[Greenback]

I'm hoping that I will simply get a fine with it being my first offence, plus my age etc. The man said that they may choose not to fine me as sometimes it's not worth their while to pursue payments from those without much money such as myself.

How likely are they to press charges in this situation, and to accept an out of court settlement?

They can't fine you. They will need to prosecute you and for the court to impose a fine. What they can do is to accept a settlement in exchange for not taking the matter further.

As Yorkie has said, we can't answer that question as it is not our decision to make. When considering whether to prosecute or not, the TOC will consider such thigns as the nature of the offence, any previous record the passenger has, their age and circumstances and whethe rit is in their interests to pruseu the matter through the courts.

As mentioned, they may decide that you are worth making an example of in order to deter other fare evaders. My own feeling is that they are more likely to settle, unless there are other aspects to the incident that you have not mentioned here.

Also, how long will I normally have to wait to receive a letter?

Northern are having a crackdown at the moment, and have quite a workload, so I would not expect it to arrive quickly.

 

[CamS]

At least this gives me plenty of time to prepare what to put in the intention to prosecute letter I'll inevitably receive.

- I'll apologise a lot, mentioning how much I've learned my lesson and show great remorse.

- Give the full details of the events, explaining that I made a massive mistake with I regret in lying, and show a wish to clarify any details which may have been skewed in my nerves at the time. I can offer that CCTV can show footage of me getting on at Scarborough, buying a ticket and then showing my ticket for Filey to Cottingham (which I still have).

- Explain how this is a first time offence of any sort etc, as well as explaining my situation (poor 19 y/o uni student)

- Offer to pay an out of court fee in order to avoid prosecution, as well as any administrative costs arisen from my actions (perhaps explaining a criminal record's potential effects on my future career plans?)

- Apologise further, to clarify my remorse and explain that I've learned my lesson etc.


Anything further advice for avoiding a prosecution? I realise that it's out of my hands now, but I want to do as much as I can to prevent this.

 

[Squaddie]

At least this gives me plenty of time to prepare what to put in the intention to prosecute letter I'll inevitably receive.

- I'll apologise a lot, mentioning how much I've learned my lesson and show great remorse.

- Give the full details of the events, explaining that I made a massive mistake with I regret in lying, and show a wish to clarify any details which may have been skewed in my nerves at the time. I can offer that CCTV can show footage of me getting on at Scarborough, buying a ticket and then showing my ticket for Filey to Cottingham (which I still have).

- Explain how this is a first time offence of any sort etc, as well as explaining my situation (poor 19 y/o uni student)

- Offer to pay an out of court fee in order to avoid prosecution, as well as any administrative costs arisen from my actions (perhaps explaining a criminal record's potential effects on my future career plans?)

- Apologise further, to clarify my remorse and explain that I've learned my lesson etc.


Anything further advice for avoiding a prosecution? I realise that it's out of my hands now, but I want to do as much as I can to prevent this.

To be quite honest, you should keep it short and simple: no-one is going to have the time to read a long rambling explanation. You can be sure that they've heard it all before and it's not going to affect their decision.

Just state the facts clearly, express remorse and offer to pay an out-of-court settlement.

 

[Greenback]

To be quite honest, you should keep it short and simple: no-one is going to have the time to read a long rambling explanation. You can be sure that they've heard it all before and it's not going to affect their decision.

Just state the facts clearly, express remorse and offer to pay an out-of-court settlement.

Very good advice.

 

[34D]

I can offer that CCTV can show footage of me getting on at Scarborough, buying a ticket and then showing my ticket for Filey to Cottingham (which I still have).

So your journey was Scarborough to Hull? You had two tickets:
-Scarborough-filey
-Filey-COttingham £13.90 return
-and wanted to buy a third ticket or an excess to cover Cottingham-Hull?

The latter is an extra 40p!! Had you gone to the guard (or probably even the barrier staff) and said you needed to go Hull instead, this would have been sorted simply.

When where and how did you purchase your Filey-Cottingham ticket?

 

[CamS]

I realise how silly I was now, but I guess we have to deal with our mistakes.

My Filey to Cottingham ticket was part of an open return that I had purchased on a previous journey, and it was valid at the time. I still have the ticket with me if it needs to be used in evidence, and CCTV will show me purchasing a ticket at Scarborough, and showing this ticket as well (I presume).

 

[34D]

I realise how silly I was now, but I guess we have to deal with our mistakes.

My Filey to Cottingham ticket was part of an open return that I had purchased on a previous journey, and it was valid at the time. I still have the ticket with me if it needs to be used in evidence, and CCTV will show me purchasing a ticket at Scarborough, and showing this ticket as well (I presume).

Except CCTV has probably been deleted now. What tickets did you show to the staff member at Hull barrier?

 

[TG]

According to the National Rail website Cottingham doesn't have any ticket purchasing facilities, I've not used the station in a few years but I don't recall there being a ticket office either.

it has a TVM machine on platform one

 

[CamS]

I received a letter from Northern Rail this morning.

It has been reported that on Friday 6th September 2013 you travelled from COTTINGHAM to HULl by train without a valid ticket.

This is an offence in law, being contrary to Section 5(3)a of the REgulation of Railway Acts of 1889, and or Railway Bylaws...

I have reviewed your case and I am, on this occasion, prepared to offer a settlement of this matter upon payment of £82.20, which equates to the outstanding fare owed of £4.70, plus a contribution of £77.50 towards the costs incurred to date."

Thankfully I have been shown mercy by Northern Rail (who have just received my payment by direct debit over the phone) over what was essentially a closed book prosecution case for them.

I'd like to thank everyone who has posted important information in this thread regarding my case as it has been a massive weight on my shoulders over the past month. For the record, I won't be trying any fare-dodging tricks again.

 

[island]

Thanks for coming back to tell us about your result, as many people don't seem to bother. It's good to hear you will not be facing prosecution. Just make sure you don't put yourself in the same situation again!

 

[maniacmartin]

I doubt that the payment was made by direct debit!

What's interesting is they charged 77.50 of admin fees, rather than their usual 80.00. I wonder if they are varying the amount slightly so they can't be accused of applying a blanket fee that may not be related to the actual cost of their admin

 

[island]

I'm sure it was a typo for debit card.

 

[CamS]

Ah yeah, I meant Debit Card. I thought I'd pop back to repay this forum for giving me peace of mind with the valuable information given.