Misuse of Freedom Pass - Advice

[AlterEgo]

I'm not clear what that would achieve, and why it wouldn't antagonise needlessly. Isn't the kind of offence obvious, especially given the admission?

It’s very important we understand what, if any, offences the OP is suspected of. How one can comment on “an offence” without being told what it is is beyond me.

If I’m caught by the police speeding then I get told in the letter when and where the offence was, and what the allegation actually is.

Why would they not write back saying there may be evidence to suggest an offence under the Byelaws [17(1) or 18(1)] or [section 5(3)(a) of] the 1889 Act, and/or "the case may be suitable for a Fraud Act prosecution" - which leaves @throwaway3457 no further forward?

Equally, commenting freehand about a mysterious “an offence” without knowing which offence it is may leave the OP in a weaker position than before.

I’m sorry, they have to actually say which offence it is to get any sort of meaningful response. How can you defend yourself from an allegation if you don’t know what the allegation is?

 

[some bloke]

I admitted to using the pass ‘a couple times when I had forgot my oyster/bank card due to moving house a lot in the past year’ - I have moved 4 times in less than 9 months due to cost of living etc and can prove this

Given this,

I calculated it as if they ask for me to pay £6.30 per trip for 2 trips every single day for 2 years and it comes to £8,467…

paying for a solicitor's advice at this stage may be good value.

 

[Rockhopper]

It’s like people who are being interviewed under caution who don’t ask for a solicitor as they think it might make them look guilty then they accidentally incriminate themselves and end up in jail when if they just shut up (as the solicitor would surely advise) they’d have walked away free.
Seems fairy common in America where police often have very little evidence but do their best to keep the person talking without violating their rights until they incriminate themselves.

 

[MCSHF007]

It’s like people who are being interviewed under caution who don’t ask for a solicitor as they think it might make them look guilty then they accidentally incriminate themselves and end up in jail when if they just shut up (as the solicitor would surely advise) they’d have walked away free.

Without wishing to cast any aspersions whatsoever on the OP or this particular case it's surely in the best interests of the future financial viability of the railway if the industry can utilise all possible processes to combat the legions of serial chancers who seem to only (inevitably) express "remorse" once they have been caught.

 

[some bloke]

I am happy to pay the avoided fare

If this means you have access to £8000 then you may like to consider contacting a solicitor specialising in fare evasion, who would probably be more expensive than those dealing with crime generally, but may be more effective and so better value for money.

A couple of firms which have been mentioned on this forum are:

Penman Sedgwick

Fare Evasion - Penman Sedgwick

penmansedgwick.com

Manak

Fare Evasion Solicitors | Kent &London | Manak Solicitors

Manak Solicitors: Skilled legal defence for fare evasion cases. Rely on our experienced team to protect your rights, challenge penalties, and guide you through the process.

manaksolicitors.co.uk

Others can be found by searching for "solicitor fare evasion".

When thinking of hiring a solicitor for more than very minor services, it can be sensible to call two or three to see how you get on in initial chats. Some solicitors explicitly offer a free initial consultation, though of course it would be unfair to abuse that. How you get on personally may make a difference to who you pick. You don't have to hire them to do the whole job from start to finish - you can agree a fee for a specific piece of work.

In making this suggestion I can't guarantee that you will end up paying less overall or with an outcome which you prefer, or even that you won't end up thinking you have wasted time and money, if for example the company have a position and won't budge. But sometimes a solicitor may have either arguments or existing relationships with people in train companies - or the ability to look like a tougher opponent - which enable the passenger to avoid prosecution, and/or may be able to negotiate a settlement down.

It may also be that speaking with a person would be helpful for you, rather than trying to do everything in writing/sort-of-in-public here.

 

[Hadders]

A local solicitor specialising in crininal defence work will be sufficuent for a case like this. Solicitors specialising in railway ticketing matters are few and far between and are expensive. The case is reasonably straightforward in that it doesn't involve intricate details of the routeing guide or the fine details of ticketing restrictions.

 

[some bloke]

The case is reasonably straightforward in that it doesn't involve intricate details of the routeing guide or the fine details of ticketing restrictions.

I was thinking more that a fare evasion specialist could have useful experience negotiating settlements with train companies, and/or dealing with individual staff in the prosecution department. Could those factors be significant for the decision? If they get a settlement which is thousands of pounds less, or there is a marginal difference which tips the balance against prosecution, the cost may be justified.

Like some other aspects of dealing with the law it may be a bit of a gamble either way. One way forward might be to call a couple of local solicitors dealing in criminal defence work and a couple of specialists, which could help the decision.

 

[throwaway3457]

Just an update in case anyone is still following this - I received their decision today and they have not decided to prosecute and I have received a warning and a £463 fine.

Thanks for your help in the comments

 

[MikeWh]

Just an update in case anyone is still following this - I received their decision today and they have not decided to prosecute and I have received a warning and a £463 fine.

Thanks for your help in the comments

I assume that's an out of court settlement. Pay it and the matter goes away, although your details will remain on file and might affect any further issues you might have with the railway. But thanks for coming back to let us know.

 

[throwaway3457]

I assume that's an out of court settlement. Pay it and the matter goes away, although your details will remain on file and might affect any further issues you might have with the railway. But thanks for coming back to let us know.

Yep pretty much. Only affects me if I re-offend which I definitely don’t intend on doing

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Just an update in case anyone is still following this - I received their decision today and they have not decided to prosecute and I have received a warning and a £463 fine.

Thanks for your help in the comments

I know you will want to put this behind you and move on with your life - but it would be really good if you could tell us how you replied to TfL's letter. Some people here were suggesting that you use a solicitor, so did you do that, or just write your own letter?

If you can let us know, it will help us when other people find themselves with similar problems.

Thanks!

 

[Wethebest838]

Just an update in case anyone is still following this - I received their decision today and they have not decided to prosecute and I have received a warning and a £463 fine.

Thanks for your help in the comments

Wow, that’s a great result! TFL hardly ever settle out of court so you have just hit the jackpot

 

[throwaway3457]

I know you will want to put this behind you and move on with your life - but it would be really good if you could tell us how you replied to TfL's letter. Some people here were suggesting that you use a solicitor, so did you do that, or just write your own letter?

If you can let us know, it will help us when other people find themselves with similar problems.

Thanks!

Yeah sure thing. I wrote the letter myself with a help from a friend who is a lawyer (he practices commercial law) as a solicitor was charging £700 plus which was way too expensive for me. I lay out mitigating circumstances - I have formal mental health diagnosis’, I receive disability allowance from the government for said illness, I have never offended, received a penalty/warning or had any issue similar to this offence. For anyone is a similar situation. List every mitigating circumstance you can think of, especially ones where you can legitimately prove.

 

[some bloke]

Thanks for letting us know. Could they have been lenient because you are eligible for the pass - are you eligible?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Yeah sure thing. I wrote the letter myself with a help from a friend who is a lawyer (he practices commercial law) as a solicitor was charging £700 plus which was way too expensive for me. I lay out mitigating circumstances - I have formal mental health diagnosis’, I receive disability allowance from the government for said illness, I have never offended, received a penalty/warning or had any issue similar to this offence. For anyone is a similar situation. List every mitigating circumstance you can think of, especially ones where you can legitimately prove.

Thanks. That's really helpful to know!

 

[throwaway3457]

Thanks for letting us know. Could they have been lenient because you are eligible for the pass - are you eligible?

Potentially eligible. With disability allowance I can apply for a freedom pass. I did try but didn’t get it they only gave more money for mobility.

 

[matt_world2004]

Potentially eligible. With disability allowance I can apply for a freedom pass. I did try but didn’t get it they only gave more money for mobility.

Freedom.passes are dealt with a different council department than those that deal with welfare typically , did you fill out the right form? There are very few circumstances where someone is eligible for the higher rate of pip and not a freedom pass

 

[throwaway3457]

Freedom.passes are dealt with a different council department than those that deal with welfare typically , did you fill out the right form? There are very few circumstances where someone is eligible for the higher rate of pip and not a freedom pass

I couldn’t outright ask for a freedom pass. I had to apply for more mobility help which freedom pass comes under but they didn’t give it to me unfortunately

 

[matt_world2004]

I couldn’t outright ask for a freedom pass. I had to apply for more mobility help which freedom pass comes under but they didn’t give it to me unfortunately

But you can ask outright you have to fill out an application form with evidence of your eligibility

For example here is hillingdon application form

Freedom Pass - Hillingdon Council

A Freedom Pass gives older and disabled Londoners free travel on almost all public transport in London.

www.hillingdon.gov.uk

It is not bundled with any other support like pip (Although a minimum amount of points on the mobility section of pip is evidence of eligibility)