Misuse of the word 'TUBE'

[Dennis C]

I'm not a pedantic person, but reading professional journalists and even some enthusiasts describing cut and cover underground railways as tube does tend to rub me up the wrong way.:roll:

 

[Starmill]

I'm not a pedantic person, but reading professional journalists and even some enthusiasts describing cut and cover underground railways as tube does tend to rub me up the wrong way.:roll:

I was under the impression that TFL use the term "Tube" to describe all LU lines on official publicity... although I don't tend to use the term myself preferring "London Underground" or simply "The Underground".

I also refer to all tube stock as a "train" - because that is what it is. But I've known some people to be like "What are you talking about 'train' - it's a tube!"

No. It is a train. Which happens to run on sections of track in tunnels.

 

[Lrd]

What about when TfL use it? Just like they do for anything related to the London Underground.

 

[Manchester77]

What about when TfL use it? Just like they do for anything related to the London Underground.

A few sping to mind are
'the tube upgrade plan'
On the website the underground category's are referred to as tube

And I don't really see why. Does it annoy you when it's called the underground because most of it isn't? Only 45% of it is actually underground so that name is also slightly misleading and false as with the tube. But it's just easier than calling it the tube and sub surface railways etc etc

 

[Dennis C]

What about when TfL use it? Just like they do for anything related to the London Underground.

TfL use it because it's easier for the general public to understand due to the years of misuse of the word!

 

[Nym]

A few sping to mind are
'the tube upgrade plan'
On the website the underground category's are referred to as tube

And I don't really see why. Does it annoy you when it's called the underground because most of it isn't? Only 45% of it is actually underground so that name is also slightly misleading and false as with the tube. But it's just easier than calling it the tube and sub surface railways etc etc

Because it evolved out of the London Underground Electric Railway Company and London Underground Limited?

 

[Manchester77]

Because it evolved out of the London Underground Electric Railway Company and London Underground Limited?

I meant the reason why people get annoyed over the misuse!

 

[yorkie]

There's no problem when people refer to proper Underground lines such as the Met, District & Circle as "the tube" even though the trains are certainly not tube stock trains. "The tube" has become synonymous with London Underground so people know what you mean.

However the "Tube map" stretches things a bit far, but the cable car, London Overground, DLR etc absolutely do need to be on the map, but I do wonder if the map has outgrown its name?

But anything that is considered to be frequent appears to count as a "tube", with the most daft example I've seen being a bus service between Oxford and London calling itself a "tube" - this is just nonsense to me!

 

[Fred26]

However the "Tube map" stretches things a bit far, but the cable car, London Overground, DLR etc absolutely do need to be on the map, but I do wonder if the map has outgrown its name?

I completely disagree that the DLR and Overground shouldn't be on the Tube map. According to RAIL a couple of months ago the GOBLIN saw usage rise when it was put back on the Tube map. A lot of people won't use these lines if they're not on the map.

 

[Dennis C]

There's no problem when people refer to proper Underground lines such as the Met, District & Circle as "the tube" even though the trains are certainly not tube stock trains. "The tube" has become synonymous with London Underground so people know what you mean.

However the "Tube map" stretches things a bit far, but the cable car, London Overground, DLR etc absolutely do need to be on the map, but I do wonder if the map has outgrown its name?

But anything that is considered to be frequent appears to count as a "tube", with the most daft example I've seen being a bus service between Oxford and London calling itself a "tube" - this is just nonsense to me!

Surely the term 'Metro' best describes a frequent service and 'Subway' for all sub surface lines.

 

[jopsuk]

perhaps, but say "tube" to most non experts/enthusiats and the system they will think of includes the subsurface lines. You might like the world to be neat and use the "correct" terms, but it isn't going to do it!

 

[Oswyntail]

.....
However the "Tube map" stretches things a bit far, but the cable car, London Overground, DLR etc absolutely do need to be on the map, but I do wonder if the map has outgrown its name?...

It is still the "Tube Map" but helpfully also shows connecting services from the same operator.

 

[yorkie]

I completely disagree that the DLR and Overground shouldn't be on the Tube map.

I said they absolutely do need to be on the map, it sounds like you agree with that? But the map seems to have outgrown the name "Tube map".
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Surely the term 'Metro' best describes a frequent service and 'Subway' for all sub surface lines.

I don't think the term 'Metro' is any better than the term 'Tube' in this context.

 

[Buttsy]

But anything that is considered to be frequent appears to count as a "tube", with the most daft example I've seen being a bus service between Oxford and London calling itself a "tube" - this is just nonsense to me!

The Oxford coach service was named the 'Tube' to make it sound like Oxford was actually on the 'tube', trying to make us seem that much closer to London than we actually are. The other bus company runs the X90, which worked well in the late 70s when it was introduced and so is now in Oxford 'speak' as in 'are you going to Tube it up to London or get the X90?' They go different routes in London so it is not all down to price...

 

[jon0844]

I completely disagree that the DLR and Overground shouldn't be on the Tube map. According to RAIL a couple of months ago the GOBLIN saw usage rise when it was put back on the Tube map. A lot of people won't use these lines if they're not on the map.

I worked with plenty of people that didn't seem to know about Thameslink as a very quick way to get from Farringdon to Blackfriars, compared to going around on the Circle sub-surface railway. (!)

It isn't (or wasn't) on every map so people never considered it when looking at the map to work out their route. And it's not surprising!

 

[LexyBoy]

Words change their meaning over time; "the Tube" may originally have referred to the deep lines but is now used by TfL, and understood by all but the most pedantic, to mean all Underground lines.

I'd agree that "Metro" refers to any rapid transit system, although generally one which includes significant underground sections. After all, the word "metro" originated from the first of London's tube lines (sorry couldn't resist). "Subway" is confusing without referring to a specific system known as such, e.g. New York or Glasgow; if someone said I should "take the subway" to get somewhere, I'd envisage walking through it rather than travelling on a train.

 

[Oswyntail]

To me "Metro" sounds as if someone is trying too hard to be sophisticated and Parisian, while "Subway" is too American even for me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
"Tyne and Wear Metro" is just plain oxymoron,

 

[jon0844]

Why would Joe Public, especially a tourist be expected to know (or care) that the Circle Line train boarded at King's Cross is sub-surface and not a tube train?

It looks underground, it's branded London Underground and it remains covered for a fair few stops going West. I doubt many people are keeping track of how far down they're going to determine if it's a deep level tube line or cut-and-shut.

The tube, to me, refers to all London Underground services and, the bigger confusion, is whether you can now include Overground - given the integration is pretty good with the Underground services. I'd quite like for it to be known as part of the tube network, as it will encourage people to actively consider using LO more.

 

[Fred26]

Sorry Yorkie, I misread your post.

 

[yorkie]

Subway simply means an underground walkway, and does not refer to trains in this country.

I have no issue with the term Metro used for other systems but it's not used for London Underground. In places like Tyne & Wear that system is known as the Metro, and as far as I know has been from the start.

I think it's fine to say something like "I'll take the tube to Harrow on the Hill" as tube is a term that gets used to simply refer to LU and people will understand what you mean, but there are people who actually have a fear of deep level tubes and they genuinely want to know which services are actual tubes to avoid them!

OK so not many people in London have this fear as they're brought up with it but some people do, which did surprise me at first! Then there are very tall people (I know someone who is 6'7" or 200cm tall) who also wish to avoid deep level tubes. So if someone said "I want to go from A to B but I have a fear of tube trains" then you know that Overground and sub-surface is fine but the deep level tubes are not. That's not them being pedantic, and while I may not quite understand their fear of tubes, and would encourage them to overcome that fear, at the end of the day if they wish to avoid them then that should be respected. Re-assuring them that a particular line (e.g. Kings Cross to Wembley Park) isn't really a tube and it's a full size train has always worked for me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sorry Yorkie, I misread your post.

No problem, I realised that must have been the case

 

[elagueesti]

I worked with plenty of people that didn't seem to know about Thameslink as a very quick way to get from Farringdon to Blackfriars, compared to going around on the Circle sub-surface railway. (!)

It isn't (or wasn't) on every map so people never considered it when looking at the map to work out their route. And it's not surprising!

I was giving directions to a chap at Blackfriars who wanted to get to Kings Cross - he was planning on getting the District or Circle line to Monument and connect with the Northern Line. Was very surprised when I told him there was a direct service that takes less than half the time from Blackfriars!

I think the "Central London Tube Map" that is displayed on Underground stock should be replaced with the "London Rail and Tube Services Map" (http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf). If you're in The City and want to get to Walthamstow or Finsbury Park, the existing map would have you making a much longer journey to connect with the Victoria or Picadilly lines when in reality there are direct trains from Moorgate or Liverpool St.

Similarly, it is of no help if you happen to be travelling to a part of London which isn't served by the Underground, DLR or Overground. Despite how easy it is to use route planners online (or work out your best route before travelling), it is surprising how many people you see on the average journey consult the map on the train.

Re: the naming conventions, it annoys me when people talk of someone being "hit by a tube". This clanger appeared in a Metro newspaper not so long ago....

 

[tbtc]

Subway simply means an underground walkway, and does not refer to trains in this country

I'd refer to the underground trains in Glasgow as the subway

 

[snail]

Surely the term 'Metro' best describes a frequent service and 'Subway' for all sub surface lines.

Yes, if you're in Paris or New York. London has the Tube, in the same way that people Hoover their floors with a Dyson.

 

[gazzak]

When a few of us stayed in the outskirts of Frankfurt for the 2006 World Cup we were told to get "The Underground" to the centre of the city. After walking past the tram stop several times, we decided to ask someone where the underground station was. "Over there" was the reply, pointing at the tram stop.

The trams went under the city for the centre stations only, but the whole system was referred to as the underground. Metro is definitely a better fit over there, but for London the Tube or Underground is too ingrained to change now.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

I'd refer to the underground trains in Glasgow as the subway

Agreed. It was the Subway when I worked on it and it still is.
http://www.spt.co.uk/subway/ seems to settle it, don't you think?

If further evidence is needed, there are various books like this one

 

[Manchester77]

Most people who I know that live in London do not care that when going from Euston Square to Hoborn (for example) that they use the circle sub surface railway line and the central deep level tube line. They use the tube or underground.......

 

[transmanche]

I also refer to all tube stock as a "train" - because that is what it is. But I've known some people to be like "What are you talking about 'train' - it's a tube!"

Re: the naming conventions, it annoys me when people talk of someone being "hit by a tube". This clanger appeared in a Metro newspaper not so long ago....

It's part of the London vernacular.

The Tube refers to the whole LU network.
A Tube is refers to a train running on the LU network.
A Train refers to something on the National Rail network. And quite often Overground is used to refer to anything that isn't LU.

So to say; "I'm not going on a train, I'm going on a tube" would not be uncommon.

 

[elagueesti]

Most people say "I'm getting on the tube" though, not "a tube". At least all the Londoners I know.

My comment about the Metro was that "hit by a tube" is not an acceptable phrase for a national newspaper, I presume the sub-eds missed it.

 

[transmanche]

My comment about the Metro was that "hit by a tube" is not an acceptable phrase for a national newspaper, I presume the sub-eds missed it.

I really don't see anything wrong with it - use of the vernacular is part of Metro's style.

 

[Dennis C]

Having read all the replies the term ‘UndergrounD’ sums up BOTH tube and sub surface railways and in my opinion should never have been replaced by the term ‘tube’