MML Electrification: progress updates

[Class 170101]

And the design ranges for the equipment - one big favourable change is that longer span lengths on UKMS125 OLE (74m as opposed to 65m on UKMS100) could result in less steel being required overall, which is a cost saving that really adds up with route length. (Although with the MML's twisty nature north of Derby, this might be wishful thinking)

Not sure I'd want to spread them out as far as possible a' la the ECML and when it gets windy.

 

[InOban]

Govt have issued 2 Trillion pounds worth of gilts to date but the Bank of England have bought up c£600B of these iou's so effectively they are written off. Insurance companies ie pension funds and overseas institutions are prepared to hold the remaining gilts and Debt Management Office continues to be able to raise cash on an almost weekly basis without issue from the market so our credit is good.

In reality the govt can fund almost what it wants currently with little risk in inflation taking hold but it needs to be careful not overcook certain sectors especially construction as demand is already running ahead of supply. You want a little bit of overheating as that encourages business to come into the sector with new capacity which helps to keep a lid on price inflation.

So its perfectly feasible to fund MML if they want to its purely political whether they decide to do so.

I'd rather believe the warnings from the OBR, I'm afraid.

 

[mwmbwls]

Grant Shapps is up before the House of Commons Transport Committee today, at 09.30hrs, to give evidence on major project appraisal and delivery. He is backed up by Nick Joyce Director General, Corporate Delivery Group at Department for Transport. The MML extension could come up given that Lilian Greenwood is a Nottingham MP.
Committees - UK Parliament

 

[59CosG95]

So, excluding the structures between Kettering & Mkt Harborough, what are the 113 structures likely to be?
For a start, I have the following down as a certainty.

• Knighton Viaduct (longer than max span length of 74m)
• Knighton Tunnels
• Leicester London Rd (A6) Overbridge & Leicester Stn itself
• Red Hill Tunnels
• Trent Viaducts (top bracing will likely need modification for OLE)
• Burley Viaduct (River Derwent)
• Milford Tunnel
• Broadholme Viaducts (River Derwent)
• Toadmoor Tunnel
• Wingfield Tunnel
• Clay Cross Tunnel
• Unstone Viaduct (River Drone)
• Bradway Tunnel
• East Bank Tunnel

 

[snowball]

Before this and other projects got Graylinged there was an article in Modern Railways that mentioned a series of bridges in Belper. The article was not confined to the MML and also discussed bridges on other lines, and a custom design of OLE for Sydney Gardens, Bath.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Grant Shapps is up before the House of Commons Transport Committee today, at 09.30hrs, to give evidence on major project appraisal and delivery. He is backed up by Nick Joyce Director General, Corporate Delivery Group at Department for Transport. The MML extension could come up given that Lilian Greenwood is a Nottingham MP.
Committees - UK Parliament

Didn't give any specifics on MML but said we are about to publish the Transport Decarbonisation Plan and that will contain lots of detail about how we are going to achieve zero by 2050. One MP suggested it coming out next Weds Shapps wouldn't be drawn but says there will be a statement to parliament which gives them a couple of weeks.

 

[59CosG95]

Before this and other projects got Graylinged there was an article in Modern Railways that mentioned a series of bridges in Belper. The article was not confined to the MML and also discussed bridges on other lines, and a custom design of OLE for Sydney Gardens, Bath.

I had a feeling that Belper would require a bespoke solution - probably throughout the entire town!

Didn't give any specifics on MML but said we are about to publish the Transport Decarbonisation Plan and that will contain lots of detail about how we are going to achieve zero by 2050. One MP suggested it coming out next Weds Shapps wouldn't be drawn but says there will be a statement to parliament which gives them a couple of weeks.

Perhaps the Erewash Valley will feature on that?

(an aside - would the MML benefit from an extended blockade between Tupton & Derby to modify all structures on the route?)

 

[John R]

Didn't give any specifics on MML but said we are about to publish the Transport Decarbonisation Plan and that will contain lots of detail about how we are going to achieve zero by 2050. One MP suggested it coming out next Weds Shapps wouldn't be drawn but says there will be a statement to parliament which gives them a couple of weeks.

Next Wed would be a week before the house rises for the summer recess. I'd suggest that any statement released on or the day before the recess begins is likely to be one which the government are keen to minimise discussion on (wasn't the GW/MML "pausing" put out on the last day?), so let's hope the statement doesn't slip back a week.

 

[zwk500]

(an aside - would the MML benefit from an extended blockade between Tupton & Derby to modify all structures on the route?)

As a general rule, the longer the closure the more effective it is. A big time-drainer is waiting for the last services to pass through (especially if there's disruption) and making the site safe for the first train in the morning. If you're working on a tunnel, for instance, you don't have to waste time putting towers up and down, or getting RRV cherry pickers on/off the tracks.

The southern region in particular is moving towards 9-day blocks for this.

 

[Killingworth]

So, excluding the structures between Kettering & Mkt Harborough, what are the 113 structures likely to be?
For a start, I have the following down as a certainty.

• Knighton Viaduct (longer than max span length of 74m)
• Knighton Tunnels
• Leicester London Rd (A6) Overbridge & Leicester Stn itself
• Red Hill Tunnels
• Trent Viaducts (top bracing will likely need modification for OLE)
• Burley Viaduct (River Derwent)
• Milford Tunnel
• Broadholme Viaducts (River Derwent)
• Toadmoor Tunnel
• Wingfield Tunnel
• Clay Cross Tunnel
• Unstone Viaduct (River Drone)
• Bradway Tunnel
• East Bank Tunnel

According to the HS2 team all but possibly one overbridge between Bradway Tunnel and Sheffield needs raising. Footbridges in Sheffield Station too. Realignment down the Sheaf Valley to allow 3 tracks from Dore into Sheffield is required, although that needs to be 4 in the places where there are current loops. That requires reinstatement of a span across Chesterfield/London Road. Of course many would suggest it should be 4 all the way, but that's the subject of another thread!

The section from Chesterfield to Sheffield may come out of the HS2 budget?

 

[59CosG95]

According to the HS2 team all but possibly one overbridge between Bradway Tunnel and Sheffield needs raising. Footbridges in Sheffield Station too. Realignment down the Sheaf Valley to allow 3 tracks from Dore into Sheffield is required, although that needs to be 4 in the places where there are current loops. That requires reinstatement of a span across Chesterfield/London Road. Of course many would suggest it should be 4 all the way, but that's the subject of another thread!

The section from Chesterfield to Sheffield may come out of the HS2 budget?

I think the one exception might be TJC1-44 (Woodseats Rd). There are quite a few underbridges that need reconstruction for the additional track(s).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Jul 2021 ==

Certainly further south, the loading gauge clearances on the MML aren't particularly generous for freight. IIRC W10 is the absolute minimum required for OLE on modern bridge reconstructions.
On the clearance tables (dated 25/07/2020), the following is stated:

• St. Pancras to Cricklewood is W6 (except for the Hendon lines between W Hampstead & Cricklewood Curve Jns, which are W8)
• Cricklewood to Bedford is W8
• Bedford to Wellingborough is W6 (although the Wymington Deviation is W7)
• Wellingborough to Wigston Sth Jn is W6
• Wigston Sth Jn to Ratcliffe Jn is basically W7 (W8, W9, and W10 are permitted between Wigston Nth Jn & Syston Sth Jn)
• Ratcliffe Jn to Spondon is basically W7 (up to W12 is permitted between Sheet Stores & Trent East Jns only)
• Spondon to Clay Cross Sth Jn is W8
• Clay Cross Sth Jn to Tapton Jn is basically W8 (W12 is permitted, but not on the DF or UF)
• The Erewash Valley is W12, but W9 upwards are barred from Toton Yards, Stapleford & Sandiacre Yards, & Codnor Park Sidings
• Trent East Jn to Nottingham is W8
• Tapton Jn to Masborough Jn (via Sheffield) is basically W8; the route via Barrow Hill, Renishaw, Treeton & Canklow is W12
• Masborough Jn to Gascoigne Wood is W12 as far as Moorthorpe, and W8 the rest of the way to Gas. Wood via Ferrybridge & Milford Jn
• Moorthorpe to South Kirkby Jns is W12
• Swinton to Doncaster is W12 (via Conisbrough & Thrybergh)
• Sheet Stores to Stenson is W12
• Derby to Tamworth is W8 to Stenson; W12 to the LNE & EM/LNW(S) route boundary
• Kettering to Manton Jn is W7
• The connection to the GOBLIN (Carlton Rd Jn - Junction Rd Jn) is a paltry W6 (interfaces with Anglia route)
• Cricklewood Curve - Dudding Hill Jn & Brent Curve Jn - Dudding Hill Jn are W7 (interfaces with Anglia route)

Have the gauge clearances on the MML changed between Cricklewood & Kettering as a result of the OLE north of Bedford? I can't see Corby having changed much as the tunnels north of Corby are the main gauge restrictor on the Corby route.
Edit: The main Anglia intermodal corridors (Ipswich-Stratford & Ipswich-Peterborough) are W10, the NLL is W10 to Willesden, the Dudding Hill Line is W7 throughout and the GOBLIN is W10 throughout.
The WCML via the Trent Valley is also W10 maximum (surprisingly). As a result, the upgrades don't have to be much more extensive than W10 across the MML.

 

[Meerkat]

As a result, the upgrades don't have to be much more extensive than W10 across the MML.

Wouldn’t that depend on how much is restricting W12 elsewhere?
As a made up example if Felixstowe to Nuneaton was otherwise W12 apart from a couple of bridges they wouldn’t bother spending on fixing those if the MML through Leicester was W10 in a big way. However if MML electrification could add W12 for marginal cost then fixing a couple of bridges elsewhere may become worthwhile.

 

[59CosG95]

Wouldn’t that depend on how much is restricting W12 elsewhere?
As a made up example if Felixstowe to Nuneaton was otherwise W12 apart from a couple of bridges they wouldn’t bother spending on fixing those if the MML through Leicester was W10 in a big way. However if MML electrification could add W12 for marginal cost then fixing a couple of bridges elsewhere may become worthwhile.

AFAIK the W12 from Tamworth only gets as far as Water Orton before dropping to W10 (Lawley St is W10 max) along the rest of the Leeds-So'ton corridor (Water Orton - Landor St - Bordesley - Leamington - Banbury - Oxford) within the LNW(S) region. This corridor is W12 from Heyford (the GW/LNW boundary) to Southcote Jn (Reading) and also eastwards to the NLL connection at Acton. Basingstoke and southwards to So'ton is W12, but Southcote Jn to Basingstoke has yet to be improved beyond W10.
So far, Birch Coppice & Hams Hall are the main beneficiaries of W12.
Of course, the rub is that most of us (self included) don't have a comprehensive list of what structures on what routes are holding W12 back from the network where it hasn't been implemented yet (although we can speculate as much as we please).

 

[Killingworth]

AFAIK the W12 from Tamworth only gets as far as Water Orton before dropping to W10 (Lawley St is W10 max) along the rest of the Leeds-So'ton corridor (Water Orton - Landor St - Bordesley - Leamington - Banbury - Oxford) within the LNW(S) region. This corridor is W12 from Heyford (the GW/LNW boundary) to Southcote Jn (Reading) and also eastwards to the NLL connection at Acton. Basingstoke and southwards to So'ton is W12, but Southcote Jn to Basingstoke has yet to be improved beyond W10.
So far, Birch Coppice & Hams Hall are the main beneficiaries of W12.
Of course, the rub is that most of us (self included) don't have a comprehensive list of what structures on what routes are holding W12 back from the network where it hasn't been implemented yet (although we can speculate as much as we please).

This may help to get an idea of the scale of the issue, Network Rail's Freight Network Study Long Term Planning Process, April 2017, a pdf page.

 

[Bald Rick]

W12 is, of course, only 50mm wider than W10 and no higher. However that 50mm can be crucial anywhere arched.

 

[Meerkat]

This may help to get an idea of the scale of the issue, Network Rail's Freight Network Study Long Term Planning Process, April 2017, a pdf page.

From that..it suggests W12 at least was the spec from the East West to Chesterfield

The Midland Main Line (MML) Electrification Programme will provide W12 gauge clearance on the MML from Bedford South Junction to Tapton Junction (via Derby) and Corby.

 

[Glenn1969]

According to the HS2 team all but possibly one overbridge between Bradway Tunnel and Sheffield needs raising. Footbridges in Sheffield Station too. Realignment down the Sheaf Valley to allow 3 tracks from Dore into Sheffield is required, although that needs to be 4 in the places where there are current loops. That requires reinstatement of a span across Chesterfield/London Road. Of course many would suggest it should be 4 all the way, but that's the subject of another thread!

The section from Chesterfield to Sheffield may come out of the HS2 budget?

If there is a HS2b budget. There won't be if the scheme isn't going ahead. Which we still don't know

 

[Meerkat]

If there is a HS2b budget. There won't be if the scheme isn't going ahead. Which we still don't know

Any chance of convincing the politicians with
“how about early funding for electrification and upgrades through Sheffield. You can announce it as HS2 but can still cancel East side and have very useful stuff rather than wasted money”

 

[edwin_m]

Any chance of convincing the politicians with
“how about early funding for electrification and upgrades through Sheffield. You can announce it as HS2 but can still cancel East side and have very useful stuff rather than wasted money”

That would be sensible (transfer the money out of the notional HS2 2b budget). But that's not to say it will happen.

 

[Bald Rick]

I’m reasonably sure this is all proposed to be from funding for the MML. Ultimately it doesn’t matter, it’s all taxpayers money.

 

[Meerkat]

I’m reasonably sure this is all proposed to be from funding for the MML. Ultimately it doesn’t matter, it’s all taxpayers money.

I guess it might have PR/political implications which project gets a bit cheaper and which might be better to sound pricier.

 

[Western Sunset]

Clearence wise, Toadmoor Tunnel at Ambergate is a real pain.

 

[Killingworth]

I guess it might have PR/political implications which project gets a bit cheaper and which might be better to sound pricier.

It may well be politically expedient to have some electric trains running between Sheffield and Chesterfield asap as an indication of real intent to connect both ends of a fully electrified MML.

 

[Bald Rick]

It may well be politically expedient to have some electric trains running between Sheffield and Chesterfield asap as an indication of real intent to connect both ends of a fully electrified MML.

Real intent comes with confirmation of funding.

 

[edwin_m]

It may well be politically expedient to have some electric trains running between Sheffield and Chesterfield asap as an indication of real intent to connect both ends of a fully electrified MML.

It's more likely that it would work northwards from Market Harborough, simply because the terrain is much easier than working south from Sheffield. Only two short tunnels before reaching both Derby and Nottingham.

 

[gingertom]

It's more likely that it would work northwards from Market Harborough, simply because the terrain is much easier than working south from Sheffield. Only two short tunnels before reaching both Derby and Nottingham.

Lead time on feeder stations is significant. The one at Braybrook will be coming onstream in the next year, unpausing the others as we go north will be years away so it makes sense to work north from Market Harborough.

 

[edwin_m]

Lead time on feeder stations is significant. The one at Braybrook will be coming onstream in the next year, unpausing the others as we go north will be years away so it makes sense to work north from Market Harborough.

Also, at the risk of stating the obvious, an electrified line is no use unless it connects to a feeder station. Normally it would also need redundant supply, which often means two feeder stations, but perhaps that isn't necessary if the only electric trains using it are bi-modes. Not sure where the northernmost feeder is planned, but Sheffield won't get juiced until electrification extends that far.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Not sure where the northernmost feeder is planned, but Sheffield won't get juiced until electrification extends that far.

without getting into speculative territory, at one time an east coast connection was planned to the scheme I.e. Sheffield to Doncaster electrified. However, they have only just upgraded the ECML power supply so no point putting further pressure on that. The objective being to at least get Sheffield station sparked up if you follow my drift.

 

[paul1609]

Before this and other projects got Graylinged there was an article in Modern Railways that mentioned a series of bridges in Belper. The article was not confined to the MML and also discussed bridges on other lines, and a custom design of OLE for Sydney Gardens, Bath.

In truth this and other schemes got “Network Rail GWR 500% electrification costoveruned" rather than "Grayinged"

 

[Killingworth]

Not sure where the northernmost feeder is planned, but Sheffield won't get juiced until electrification extends that far.

I can't say how detailed or serious it was but I've seen a plan of the Dore West Junction area showing a feeder station to the north of that junction.