• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

MML Electrification: progress updates

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,447
It’s not the railway bridge that got hit by a van, but one slightly further down the road that crosses a stream. However the effect is the same on local traffic.
Ah, so just a coincidence, not a railway bridge at all.
It seems to take forever to replace these bridges, even the intended time for the Newton Lane replacement was around 4 months. Even worse is they’ve not taken the opportunity to improve the crossing. Both the Newton Lane and Station Road bridges were too narrow for two way traffic. So what do we get for months of disruption - two equally narrow bridges with higher walls constructed with unsightly industrial concrete that don’t fit in with the locality. I can see why Leicestershire County Council are unimpressed.
They will have approved the design during planning. Bit daft to then be “unimpressed” afterwards. If the council wanted to widen the road they’d have had to contribute the extra cost, it’s not NR’s job to widen the roads.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

jthjth

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2015
Messages
197
Ah, so just a coincidence, not a railway bridge at all.

They will have approved the design during planning. Bit daft to then be “unimpressed” afterwards. If the council wanted to widen the road they’d have had to contribute the extra cost, it’s not NR’s job to widen the roads.
Whatever. NR disrupt the local community for months and give nothing in return. The cost of an extra metre or so of width would be negligible in the context of the total bridge rebuilding cost. Would have been a useful compensatory gesture for months of disruption.
 

InOban

Established Member
Joined
12 Mar 2017
Messages
4,221
If Leicestershire wanted a wider bridge they should have ponied up the dosh. nr's duty is like for like.
 

Meerkat

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2018
Messages
7,555
Whatever. NR disrupt the local community for months and give nothing in return. The cost of an extra metre or so of width would be negligible in the context of the total bridge rebuilding cost. Would have been a useful compensatory gesture for months of disruption.
Would it? Wouldn't it mean building new abutments and reprofiling embankments rather than plonking a new bridge on the old ones? Sounds pretty expensive to me.
 

jthjth

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2015
Messages
197
Would it? Wouldn't it mean building new abutments and reprofiling embankments rather than plonking a new bridge on the old ones? Sounds pretty expensive to me.
If it’s simply a case of plonking, why has it taken 4 months and counting?
 

PJM

Member
Joined
20 Aug 2021
Messages
165
Location
Market Harborough
It’s not the railway bridge that got hit by a van, but one slightly further down the road that crosses a stream. However the effect is the same on local traffic.
It seems to take forever to replace these bridges, even the intended time for the Newton Lane replacement was around 4 months. Even worse is they’ve not taken the opportunity to improve the crossing. Both the Newton Lane and Station Road bridges were too narrow for two way traffic. So what do we get for months of disruption - two equally narrow bridges with higher walls constructed with unsightly industrial concrete that don’t fit in with the locality. I can see why Leicestershire County Council are unimpressed.

In related news, the B582 over bridge that links Wigston to South Wigston is in poor condition according to the local councillor and will need to be replaced. (NR confirmed to me they intend to start work in 2025). The route is already a major bottleneck so I’m expecting months of major chaos.

NR response to me:
I have been in contact without our project team who have advised me that our current plans are to reconstruct Blaby Road bridge as part of a future phase of Midland Main Line electrification work. This is currently planned for 2025/26 but final plans will be confirmed during the design phase in the coming year. We are unable to provide any further detail on road closures or other information until the final designs are confirmed.
Ok, so the canal bridge? Or river/stream? So they rebuilt a single flow bridge with a single flow bridge with traffic lights. As previously suggested, why on on earth was it not made into a 2 way carriageway?
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,930
Location
Nottingham
Ok, so the canal bridge? Or river/stream? So they rebuilt a single flow bridge with a single flow bridge with traffic lights. As previously suggested, why on on earth was it not made into a 2 way carriageway?
Part of getting electrification costs down is avoiding spending money on things that don't contribute to the goal of getting the electrification done.
 

Trainbike46

Established Member
Joined
18 Sep 2021
Messages
2,309
Location
belfast
Part of getting electrification costs down is avoiding spending money on things that don't contribute to the goal of getting the electrification done.
Fully agreed here; if the highway authority wanted the bridge widened, this would have been a good time to do that, but clearly they didn't deem it necessary or desirable enough to action it, and cover the extra costs involved.
Ok, so the canal bridge? Or river/stream? So they rebuilt a single flow bridge with a single flow bridge with traffic lights. As previously suggested, why on on earth was it not made into a 2 way carriageway?
In addition to what the poster above stated, that would have been the highway authority's (likely a local council) responsibility, not network rail's. It sounds as if improvements were already made by the addition of traffic lights.
 

jthjth

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2015
Messages
197
Last time I looked, before a van hit the stream bridge, the station road bridge traffic lights are a temporary set as used at road works. Methinks there’s more arguing to be done between NR and LCC.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,447
Last time I looked, before a van hit the stream bridge, the station road bridge traffic lights are a temporary set as used at road works. Methinks there’s more arguing to be done between NR and LCC.
The photo taken last October suggests they’re fairly well established for temporary lights, complete with a concrete slab to stand the thing on:
 

jthjth

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2015
Messages
197
The photo taken last October suggests they’re fairly well established for temporary lights, complete with a concrete slab to stand the thing on:
Battery powered requiring regular maintenance - that’s not a permanent solution. I think it’s a work around to get the road open whilst the negotiations continue. I’m no expert in traffic regulations, but don’t permanent traffic lights require more than one set of lights in each direction?
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,447
… I’m no expert in traffic regulations, but don’t permanent traffic lights require more than one set of lights in each direction?
There’s certainly many instances where there’s more than one set facing you when stopped at the line, but I don’t think it’s an absolute requirement at every installation. Not really a railway question though.
 

PJM

Member
Joined
20 Aug 2021
Messages
165
Location
Market Harborough
Station Road traffic lights are permanent. Once again no joined up thinking or planning. Would have been the perfect opportunity to widen the bottleneck.
 

jthjth

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2015
Messages
197
Station Road traffic lights are permanent. Once again no joined up thinking or planning. Would have been the perfect opportunity to widen the bottleneck.
I doubt the current installation is the end solution. I wonder who pays for the ongoing running and maintenance costs of the lights? Wasn’t an LCC liability before the new bridge was installed.

It was mentioned upthread that the only NR obligation was replacement like for like? But does that hold when the new bridge doesn’t conform to current standards? Bit like you can’t procure new slam door stock just because the old stock was slam door.
 
Last edited:

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,272
Location
St Albans
I doubt the current installation is the end solution. I wonder who pays for the ongoing running and maintenance costs of the lights? Wasn’t an LCC liability before the new bridge was installed.

It was mentioned upthread that the only NR obligation was replacement like for like? But does that hold when the new bridge doesn’t conform to current standards? Bit like you can’t procure new slam door stock just because the old stock was slam door.
I'm reaalt surprised that this discussion is going in this direction. The bottom line is that NR are tasked and funded with electrification including where necessary, replacing structure that don't currently meet the standards required for a 25kV 100/125mph mainline. All safety aspects of the construction will also meet current railway safety standards.
The funding does not include making roads wider, altering sight lines or adding traffic management equipment where it didn't exist before. Anything that might be desirable for the road users of the bridges is the responsibility of the Highways agency or the local authorities. If they sit on their hands hoping for a freebie, they will be disappointed, so road users should direct their ire to them. NR are not responsible for road safety, (with the exception of level crossings), and certainly not for inadequate road layouts.
Surely there have been enough examples of major rail projects running over budget, - mission growth is something that NR are probably very risk averse of now!
 

jthjth

Member
Joined
10 Apr 2015
Messages
197
Do you have any cite to show NR can wash their hands of any responsibility for the bridge structure they rebuild in respect of the road layout? Surely there must be standards to which they have to adhere. If, for example, they raise the bridge height such that traffic lights are needed are they simply not transferring electrification costs to the highway authority?
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,272
Location
St Albans
Do you have any cite to show NR can wash their hands of any responsibility for the bridge structure they rebuild in respect of the road layout? Surely there must be standards to which they have to adhere. If, for example, they raise the bridge height such that traffic lights are needed are they simply not transferring electrification costs to the highway authority?
No, but provided the replacement doesn't create any breaches of safety legislation on the road on the bridge structure, I doubt there is an obligation to fund what would be the equivalent of 'betterment' in insurance terms. In actual execution of the works, it is likely that the road surface and substrate will likely be of higher quality than it was before the works, but extending it's width or layout is the responsibility of the 'keepers' responsibility. If the road authorities are competantt, they will co-ordinate any road improvement with the electrification disruption and at the same time, improve the road stock.
 

Elecman

Established Member
Joined
31 Dec 2013
Messages
2,906
Location
Lancashire
Interestingly Network Rail ( via the East West Rail project ) have had to fund the new illuminated signage at Selbourne Road bridge even though no physical alterations have been carried out to the structure at the instructions of the local authority, and are responsible for the ongoing costs of the electricity consumed by those signs
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
24,930
Location
Nottingham
Interestingly Network Rail ( via the East West Rail project ) have had to fund the new illuminated signage at Selbourne Road bridge even though no physical alterations have been carried out to the structure at the instructions of the local authority, and are responsible for the ongoing costs of the electricity consumed by those signs
Has this been imposed by the highway authority, or have NR chosen to do it to reduce the risk of a bridge strike (which is much more disruptive and potentially dangerous to them than to the highway)?
 

snowball

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2013
Messages
7,746
Location
Leeds
I've been trying to find Selbourne Road and I wonder if Elecman means Selbourne Avenue, Bletchley, where the road goes under a narrow arched bridge under the railway.
 

swt_passenger

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Apr 2010
Messages
31,447
I've been trying to find Selbourne Road and I wonder if Elecman means Selbourne Avenue, Bletchley, where the road goes under a narrow arched bridge under the railway.
That’s the only one I can find. Can’t think why it wasn’t already signed though. The TWA drawings refer to it as a “cattle bridge”, that must be historic though…
 

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,337
Neil O'Brien (MP for Harborough) had a conversation with EMR the other day and summarised it on Facebook, including a couple of points on the infrastructure side of things.

- New trains and electrification. They have one of their new trains already running on trials. The new fleet as a whole is currently being built up in the north east and arrives for driver training towards the end of this year, with full introduction early next year. The wires that are being installed through the constituency will get turned on in summer. The wires south of Bedford will also get upgraded, around Christmas this year. EMR agreed that as soon as they have new trains they should start using them in electric mode in St Pancras to get rid of the diesel smog there.
This suggests the OLE north of Kettering North SATS won't be energised before June 2024, unless the industry regulars here know otherwise. The reference to wire upgrades south of Bedford (OLE125) and Christmas tallies with a @Bald Rick post on the Class 810 thread.

- South Wigston. I am going to have a follow up meeting with Network Rail about plans to shut Spion Kop bridge - but had a useful discussion with EMR about some of the new technologies that are allowing electrification work under bridges without them having to be dug up...
For clarity, the MP is referring to the bridge which carries the B582 / Blaby Road. This info tallies with post #7020.
 

baz962

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2017
Messages
3,322
Neil O'Brien (MP for Harborough) had a conversation with EMR the other day and summarised it on Facebook, including a couple of points on the infrastructure side of things.


This suggests the OLE north of Kettering North SATS won't be energised before June 2024, unless the industry regulars here know otherwise. The reference to wire upgrades south of Bedford (OLE125) and Christmas tallies with a @Bald Rick post on the Class 810 thread.


For clarity, the MP is referring to the bridge which carries the B582 / Blaby Road. This info tallies with post #7020.
Although as alluded to before , no one is sure when driver training will start. As far as we understand it ASLEF haven't spoken with the company about a training package.
 

blueberry11

Member
Joined
19 Aug 2023
Messages
71
Location
Norwich
Any idea when the next phase of the electrification has been confirmed or even to start. By looking at this thread, I know it is (likely) not going to be South Wigston to Leicester but is it RS3 – Syston to Trent Junction?
 
Last edited:

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,337
Yes, RS3 will likely be the next phase if main works beyond Wigston are authorised, possibly in tandem with RS2b which is Leicester North Jn - Syston (the tricky bit through Leicester station is RS2a).

According to documentation issued with last October's contract notice (see post #6682), NR is following a staged approach where business case submission is concerned; two submissions are planned for spring 2024 and autumn 2025, which I presume will cover different halves of the project. It's increasingly clear that further Midland electrification, if it happens, will follow a pause of some length in construction activity.
 

Flying Phil

Established Member
Joined
18 Apr 2016
Messages
1,933
As was discussed on here in October, it would be a real shame if the MML team gets split up due to a delay in authorisation for the next stages. They have done very well with the Kettering to Wigston works seemingly on time and on budget.
 

Top