No but the passengers stop beating their heads against the nearest wall as someone's forced a decision about where their train stops.
It's a service you know
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Mobile Phones in the cab
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No but the passengers stop beating their heads against the nearest wall as someone's forced a decision about where their train stops.
It's a service you know
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RailUK Forums
GSM-R is quite ancient technology these days hence the handset. And of course Bluetooth tech is pointless in a train cab as you need a mobile phone to connect with it and they have to be switched off. Not going into the right and wrongs of that its the rules after all
notadriver
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As truck doesn't compare with a train.
notadriver
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I've driven a tri-axle coach with a GVW of around 25 tons. Kind of similar to a rigid truck.
Minilad
Established Member
Maybe thats why so many trucks hit low bridges then. Too busy making and receiving calls and sending and receiving texts
You should know by now as traincrew, we're treated like mushrooms, in the plain & simple fact we're kept in the dark & fed plenty of BS.
I've had a right barney with them, when they kept chopping & changing their minds about my calling pattern. In the end after the second amendment, I put my foot down & said to the signaller who was passing the messages to me.
Look, make up your ****ing mind, it's all very well you keep changing things, but you don't have to put up with irate punters, now make your final decision, because I will NOT accept any further changes, it's not fair on the punters! With that he hung up, called me back & said "Just go fast from ******** to **********" we'll deal with 'em.
I give them 3 strikes to get things right, get to strike 3 & you're OUT, no more changes. And I know that I'll get away with it too, because the conversations are recorded. The only thing I got pulled up for with that conversation was not using professional radio etiquette!
Was there any need to be disrespectful to the signaller who is probably only passing on information and who is in most cases, treated just the same as drivers when it's comes to information from control.
carriageline
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Thank you!!
We often just get a short email with amended stopping patterns of trains, sometimes the drivers are told, sometimes their not. If control ring and ask me to tell them, then I will. If that driver then gets shirty with me, well he won't be going anywhere in a hurry
We don't make these decisions, and they come from above, often relayed through a shift manager. End of the day, you are one train out of a possible 15 trains I'm 'looking after', I don't have the time nor should I have to divert my attention to argue the finer details of one trains stopping pattern. Control are paid to do that, I just deliver what they ask. Got a problem, take it out on them! I'm more than happy to pass on any distaste you have to their "plan" though!
even more so if something better can be thought up, which is often the case!
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DarloRich
Veteran Member
Surely if driver is suing his phone in accordance with the stated policy of a particular company there is no problem?
It is clear that the idea that mobile phones are forbidden across all companies employing drivers is wrong.
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Sounds very much like control onto someone asking for a status update! I am sure if you heard the next few seconds the call would have been ended.
It is clear that the idea that mobile phones are forbidden across all companies employing drivers is wrong.
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Sounds very much like control onto someone asking for a status update! I am sure if you heard the next few seconds the call would have been ended.
The trouble is GB it can only ever be a company issued mobile and with only the facility to call for company and operational issues or it "WILL" be mis used if it is a personal mobile, not by everyone but by a few. All the numbers I need are in the GSMR.
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ASLEF put out a circular stating that if a driver is disciplined using a mobile device in the cab they will not be able to represent them, that is enough for me.
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Does that include the emergency services?
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Sorry to keep failing to back your cause but why do you need to use a mobile when you have GSMR? The only numbers you need should be in the GSMR call lists, if they are not you need to report it to your company, I think mobile phones should not be permitted to be used in the cab of a train if the train is moving, if it is not the driver should vacate the cab to use it.
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This is a different situation, if you are fault finding and need to move about the train whilst talking to maintenance the yes, a mobile phone is beneficial but you are obviously not in control of the train! There are 2 factors here obviously.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Even if in accordance with the terms of the company policy? I understand if you are prohibited by policy from using any phone and you then do anyway but you could be reported for using a phone when it was entirely correct to do so.
You should be offered representation then in my view
Indeed and if the conversation was downloaded I am sure it would have been coffee without biscuits.
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Maybe but look what has happened to the Guard on Merseyrail!
DarloRich
Veteran Member
indeed - although that is a criminal investigation.
No company would have a policy stating you can use a mobile whilst the train is moving. It's against the RSSB rule book. Companies can only introduce their own rules if they don't contradict the RSSB. They did try to put Ito the rule book that you could switch your phone on and swap numbers with the box in event of radio Failiure but Aslef insisted it was removed again as it opened up too many issues and what ifs regarding other calls coming through, distraction from texts, passengers reporting drivers etc.
Aslef will not represent any driver found to be using a mobile in the cab of a moving train or found to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Using a phone during disruption when at a stand is not an issue, asking as its off again before starting to move off.
RPM
Established Member
One of the things I find most useful about carrying my mobile at work is the ability to use it to look up information on disruption and that sort of thing - quite useful when working DOO so I can make meaningful announcements to the passengers. This is currently possible on my TOC as long as the train is stationary etc.
The problem is with the mickey-takers who use their phones when they shouldn't. If they get caught it will result in a knee-jerk overreaction which will then disbenefit everyone else, including in some circumstances the passengers.
The problem is with the mickey-takers who use their phones when they shouldn't. If they get caught it will result in a knee-jerk overreaction which will then disbenefit everyone else, including in some circumstances the passengers.
Quite probable, and it was almnost certainly in relation to the imposed "goodness knows how many miles" TSR we had imposed due to the weather
Similar where I work - mobiles cannot be used unless in an office or canteen (though sometimes getting visitors to abide by it can be a challenge!)
I believe that it was possibly to use company mobiles in the yard but then came the argument of how can you tell what is a company mobile and what isn't. Given the reason it is banned is due to forklift truck and other heavy traffic (artics etc), I support it as you really need your wits about you when walking around outside!
It always seems odd when I am working from the "head office" location where we can use mobiles in the car park etc (in fact, pretty much anywhere) - going back to the production facility I sometimes have to remind myself where I am!
I have no issue with you siding against me
It's not a cause per se but there is very much zero difference between them now. The conversation is the important part. Whether it is had on a mobile or the GSMR is hardly relevant anymore. The ones where I have used the GSMR creates a situation where safety critical communication is thrown out the window, the person on the receiving end doesn't know you are calling from a potentially moving train. The GSMR is also still not great quality and still drops out !
The GSMR has broken the boundary and made it a very grey area. I never used to contact the fitters, control, shunters (via the radio), platforms, BTP, etc etc but now with GSMR its possible. It has introduced contact I never had with CSR. We have gone from Signaler/Driver communication to pretty much anyone. Effectivly it IS a mobile phone.
On a side note. The GSMR phone book is a very poor design and can create a distraction due to the menu system. The TOC phone book doesn't contain all the numbers I need. On one of the units I drive it has an incredible amounts of contact numbers; including stations !
It also limits me to be within the cab and I may need it whilst out on the track. Inspecting the unit or dealing with evacuations etc
It's the same situation. Mobiles are not permitted but we are making incremental allowances. There was an incident where a shunt move was being carried out and the Shunter was on his phone when the two units came together.
The difference between being in the cab, DRA on, Brake and neutral etc and stepping out the cab is a technicality. It is the way in which the TOC can circumvent the rulebook because its not on "in the cab"
WCMLaddict
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I'm pretty sure VT have/had special dispensation and are/were allowed to use mobiles in the cab and on the move. Can't remember the details but I thought it was traction specific...
My phone is always off in the cab and anyone that comes in is asked to do the same. GSMR has all the numbers I might need.
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DarloRich
Veteran Member
Agree - I was not clear - I was talking about a stationary train
The only issues they could have with stationary trains is people sitting at a red, using phone then when the signal clears turning it off and moving off without fully checking and having a read across, wrong route or SOY style issue. If I'm working empties and booked to wait somewhere for a number of minutes I do sometimes sit in the second mans side and use my iPad or phone and I can't really see any issues with that at all. As I say, as long as I have fully checked the aspect before moving and don't rush about.
HarleyDavidson
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Nope, phones are off in the cab for us and one of the first things done in any investigation is a download of the drivers phone record. The GSM-R phone book has been updated recently but all I've ever got out of it unless speaking directly to a signaller is 'failed to connect'. Personally I'd be glad to see the back of the company mobiles, for the use they are I see them as a waste of time and money.
HarleyDavidson
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I don't know, they're quite handy for accessing the company intranet to find out what you're doing when not on duty.
Then there's RTT for checking your performance when you get off or for delays and making sure that the TINs go to the right depot.
Then there's access to Tyrellcheck for when WICC don't answer the phone.
Then there's the external phone numbers to ECO/ORMs/DMs/Signalboxes/Crew Rooms/Local takeaway's et al.
And for playing Candy Crush, Dropwords, Sudoku & listening to music when travelling back pass.
Yes. A mobile is a worthwhile device, just put it on a PAYG or 30-day rolling contract.
Then there's RTT for checking your performance when you get off or for delays and making sure that the TINs go to the right depot.
Then there's access to Tyrellcheck for when WICC don't answer the phone.
Then there's the external phone numbers to ECO/ORMs/DMs/Signalboxes/Crew Rooms/Local takeaway's et al.
And for playing Candy Crush, Dropwords, Sudoku & listening to music when travelling back pass.
Yes. A mobile is a worthwhile device, just put it on a PAYG or 30-day rolling contract.
Um, this is my company mobile, good luck with any of that...
Ahhh, perfect for making phone calls.
GearJammer
Member
But if you had the hands free technology the phones wouldn't need switching off. If you had a mobile and connected it to a train cabs Bluetooth system and set it to connect automatically after that point you would sooner or later have your phone paired with every loco/unit operated by your TOC/FOC.
Physically turning the phone off is no deterrant anyway, you can switch it back on as easily as you turn it off.
As you say GSMR is old tech, there is newer and better stuff available, yet the railway doesn't use it. It seems the railway are to obsessed with finding health and safety reasons not to use it, instead of using it to there advantage.
carriageline
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But as signallers, we wouldn't have contact with every single driver out there, it's not possible to have all their numbers and what units they are on. Plus, mobile black spots and tunnels would cause a massive problem. Then flat batteries etc.
Signaller to train communication is the most important and vital.
Signaller to train communication is the most important and vital.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
Intrigued by this comment.
What system do you suggest should be used, remembering that it has to cover the whole country and ALL elements of the railway industry, not just the trains?
And as for Bluetooth, forget it!! It isn't secure enough. I could see every dammed spotter trying to get their phones to sync. (And passwords are quite easy to negate!!)
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GSM-R is mandated through the interoperability regulations therefore the TOC or NR cannot just use anything they want
Need to remember that GSM-R works on the principle of pre-emption - calls will be cut off if a higher priority call comes in ie REC. This cannot happen with public operator mobile phones
Need to remember that GSM-R works on the principle of pre-emption - calls will be cut off if a higher priority call comes in ie REC. This cannot happen with public operator mobile phones
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