Morality of Delay Repay after an "incident"

[SSp]

A co-worker refuses to claim for a refund after an incident this week - its not the train company's fault. I can see the logic...

I'm claiming as i) I was 80 mins late and ii) the more train companies lose from incidents such as this, the more incentive they have to build higher walls and stronger fences etc for future prevention. But admittedly primarily i) .

Perhaps there could be an option on train companies' websites to direct Delay Repay to Samaritans on such incidents?

 

[yorkie]

Where Delay Repay applies, you can make a claim under any circumstances (and feel free to pass it on to the Samaritans as a donation).

Network Rail will be deemed 'liable' in compensation terms, and they will compensate the train company generously. The train companies will get the compensation from NR in the expectation that people will claim for it, but you can let the train companies keep it if you prefer.

 

[GB]

Where Delay Repay applies, you can make a claim under any circumstances (and feel free to pass it on to the Samaritans as a donation).

Network Rail will be deemed 'liable' in compensation terms, and they will compensate the train company generously. The train companies will get the compensation from NR in the expectation that people will claim for it, but you can let the train companies keep it if you prefer.

If we are talking about fatalities then the TOC are deemed liable for compensation if the fatality originated at a station.

 

[yorkie]

If we are talking about fatalities then the TOC are deemed liable for compensation if the fatality originated at a station.

The TOC whose train was hit, or the TOC who manages the station?

 

[GB]

I have no idea, I just know its not NR.

 

[matt_world2004]

Why delay repay is not compensation ita a refund because the service was not delivered as advertised

 

[Llanigraham]

A co-worker refuses to claim for a refund after an incident this week - its not the train company's fault. I can see the logic...

I'm claiming as i) I was 80 mins late and ii) the more train companies lose from incidents such as this, the more incentive they have to build higher walls and stronger fences etc for future prevention. But admittedly primarily i) .

Perhaps there could be an option on train companies' websites to direct Delay Repay to Samaritans on such incidents?

No they will not, because they do not deal with infrastructure. That belongs to Network Rail.

 

[philthetube]

I like the idea of the donating to Samaritans. It would not cost the railway anything, in fact it might even save them money should the extra finance avoid a suicide.

 

[DelayRepay]

I always claim. It may not be their fault but I have plenty of 28 minute delays which don;t qualify for compensation. Horses for courses.

 

[cav1975]

I was delayed over 2 hours after such an incident earlier this year. Delay repay was declined as Southeastern's records suggested that I should have caught the next train which was diverted and hence not delayed much. As I was trapped on the train that was impracticable. I appealed twice and eventually got my refund.

The uncooperative and uncaring attitude from Southeastern's delay repay team encouraged me to keep the compensation.

 

[broadgage]

I agree that one should always claim compensation to which one is entitled.
As others post, you can then keep it or donate it to a charity of your choice, if you are paying income tax then the value of your donation may increased by making use of giftaid.

 

[Starmill]

In the past I used to let some delays slide and not claim compensation for low amounts, journeys where I was not in a hurry or

But I have had so many bad experiences over the years what with ridiculous and unfair fare rises, silly restrictions and deeply anti-customer changes to policy, poorly managed disruption, overcharging or disputes against valid tickets, rubbish customer relations responses and ridiculous response times that now I just claim for every qualifying journey. However, I also now spend more on travel, so they still make more net revenue from my custom.

 

[yorkie]

Why delay repay is not compensation ita a refund because the service was not delivered as advertised

Compensation and refunds are not the same thing. See: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/72098.aspx

Refunds

Under the National Rail Conditions of Travel, if your train is cancelled or delayed and you choose not to travel, you are entitled to a full refund.

If you decide not to travel for another reason, you can usually get a refund less the cost of an admin fee (maximum £10).
Some tickets, such as Advance fares, are not refundable.

To get your refund you should return your ticket to the retailer it was bought from (including online third-party retailers such as The Trainline or RedSpottedHanky), stating the date and time you intended to travel.

Compensation

If your train is delayed and you decide to still travel, you may be entitled to compensation.

The amount of compensation you can claim will depend on which operator(s) you are travelling with. Special arrangements exist for Season ticket holders (see below).

Each train company sets its own level of compensation, as set down by the company's Passenger's Charter. Links to all operators’ Charters are available here.

The National Rail Conditions of Travel outlines the minimum offered through Passenger’s Charters but in practise the vast majority of operators pay more than that....

 

[Bletchleyite]

A co-worker refuses to claim for a refund after an incident this week - its not the train company's fault. I can see the logic...

I'm claiming as i) I was 80 mins late and ii) the more train companies lose from incidents such as this, the more incentive they have to build higher walls and stronger fences etc for future prevention. But admittedly primarily i) .

Perhaps there could be an option on train companies' websites to direct Delay Repay to Samaritans on such incidents?

You could always claim it and donate yourself.

Personally I don't claim if I feel the issue was outside the railway's control *and* the railway handled the aftermath well. If they handle it badly, I claim every penny to give them a clout. I had great pleasure in claiming a lot of RTVs from VTWC for their appalling handling of passengers following the bridge collapse north of Carlisle last year, when Preston's staff lost control of a messy situation through utter incompetence. As I had booked a few weeks up front, I was able to claim a 100% RTV refund on two weeks' worth of return tickets (being delayed in both directions, and booked before the temporary timetable came into force), and did so with great pleasure. (They got spent on work trips as the company had paid for the tickets, but there was still great enjoyment in claiming them).

 

[JN114]

Delay attribution for fatality/person struck by train incidents is incredibly complex. While the initial incident will generally be attributed either to the TOC managing the station; or Network Rail if it did not take place at a station; service recovery decisions will be scrutinised by TOCs and NR and minutes will shuffle around.

The idea of donating delay repay monies to Samaritans in these incidents is a very good one, certainly something I'll look at in future.

 

[LAX54]

I always think delay-repay is self defeating, short term gain, long term pain ! in the end it ends up with higher fares to counter all the 'fines' that boubce around between NR/TOC/FOC !

 

[Bletchleyite]

I always think delay-repay is self defeating, short term gain, long term pain ! in the end it ends up with higher fares to counter all the 'fines' that boubce around between NR/TOC/FOC !

There is that. I would happily trade Delay Repay for a customer services department that actually listened and was actually interested in resolving problems with some level of promptness.

 

[oldman]

Are there any published figures for the amount paid out? I guess it must be escalating as the PPI lawyers move on to a new target. Is there any other service with such a generous compensation scheme?

 

[SSp]

Are there any published figures for the amount paid out? I guess it must be escalating as the PPI lawyers move on to a new target. Is there any other service with such a generous compensation scheme?

I assume around 25% of a long distance fare is implied insurance.

 

[AlterEgo]

Are there any published figures for the amount paid out? I guess it must be escalating as the PPI lawyers move on to a new target. Is there any other service with such a generous compensation scheme?

Why would PPI lawyers deal with Delay Repay?

 

[amcluesent]

I was very delayed on a packed Xmas-eve train to Glasgow after an 'incident', leaving me standing for more hours.

When I enquired about delay-repay to a member of the train crew they were apoplectic!

 

[yorkie]

When I enquired about delay-repay to a member of the train crew they were apoplectic!

I'd write to the company separately about that. Was it a Virgin Trains service? If so, that's very different to what the company expects of its employees.

 

[Hadders]

Rail fares are expensive enough as it is so I always claim Delay Repay when I am eligible for it. The rail industry doesn't help itself with the tightening on restrictions, removal of permitted routes,less comfortable rolling stock etc.

If fact I seem to remember reading that First Great Western downloaded the Avantix machine of the guard in the Ladbrook Grove rail crash so that customers who had paid on board were charged for their fare.

 

[DarloRich]

I will claim for any qualifying delay regardless of the cause.

 

[oldman]

Why would PPI lawyers deal with Delay Repay?

PPI lawyers advertise extensively, including by nuisance calls to my landline , encouraging people to claim even when they didn't know whether they had had PPI insurance. The cost to the banks of processing pointless claims has been considerable.

Now we have a website like Delay Repay Sniper offering, if I understand it correctly, to tell you which trains on a route were late and process your claim. The scope for scamming is obvious, unlike with air travel, where it can easily be established if you were actually on the flight you were claming for. This can only increase the cost of delay repay which then factors into franchise bids.

 

[AlterEgo]

PPI lawyers advertise extensively, including by nuisance calls to my landline , encouraging people to claim even when they didn't know whether they had had PPI insurance. The cost to the banks of processing pointless claims has been considerable.

Now we have a website like Delay Repay Sniper offering, if I understand it correctly, to tell you which trains on a route were late and process your claim. The scope for scamming is obvious, unlike with air travel, where it can easily be established if you were actually on the flight you were claming for. This can only increase the cost of delay repay which then factors into franchise bids.

Delay Repay Sniper isn't run by a PPI lawyer. I know who is responsible for it.

It is not difficult to scam Delay Repay whether or not DRS exists or not.

 

[IKB]

Below is a quote from the GWR website.

Delay compensation

We work hard to make sure all trains run as planned, but if things go wrong you may be able to claim compensation.

We normally issue compensation by cheque; or you can choose rail travel vouchers which can either be posted or credited to your GWR online account.

What we’ll pay depends on which of our services you used.

We don’t normally offer compensation because of something outside of our control like trespassing, vandalism, severe weather, someone being hit by a train or a security alert.

High speed services
If your train is delayed by over an hour, you can claim the full value of your ticket for that part of the journey - for example, 50% of a return ticket and 100% of a single.

And if delays hold you up for more than 2 hours, we’ll refund the full cost of all tickets. Weekly season ticket holders get compensation based on the daily ticket cost.

The part I've highlighted in bold - is that correct and are they allowed to withhold payment of compensation in those circumstances?

 

[D1009]

Network Rail will be deemed 'liable' in compensation terms, and they will compensate the train company generously. The train companies will get the compensation from NR in the expectation that people will claim for it, but you can let the train companies keep it if you prefer.

As with any delay, Network Rail compensates the TOCs for the lack of track access for which they pay through the track access charges. This is totally different from and unrelated to the compensation or refund the TOCs provide to the passengers.

 

[AlterEgo]

Below is a quote from the GWR website.



The part I've highlighted in bold - is that correct and are they allowed to withhold payment of compensation in those circumstances?

Yes, as they don't operate Delay Repay but instead operate a grandfathered scheme which is still extant.

 

[bb21]

If we are talking about fatalities then the TOC are deemed liable for compensation if the fatality originated at a station.

Not necessarily. Delay attribution around fatalities is massively complicated.

In most cases, both NR and the TOC will be billed for some of the minutes. The proportion varies depending on the nature of the incident and services involved.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The TOC whose train was hit, or the TOC who manages the station?

Delay attribution always goes by the TOC operating the service, as minutes cannot be attributed to the station.

Edit: I see JN114 has already covered some aspects of the arrangement.