Most deserving town to be reconnected to Rail Network

[tbtc]

I'm guessing their aren't huge numbers of passengers at Chathill

True.

Assuming that nobody uses the morning arrival or the tea time departure (i.e. the only passengers using it are on the morning service to Newcastle and the tea time arrival from Newcastle) then those 2,642 passengers are 1,321 departures a year.

1,321 departures a year is 25.4 passengers a week. Over the six days that Chathill has a service, that works out at just over four passengers per service.

Maybe there are better things to use a Voyager on?
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And the Northern trains continue ECS to Belford anyway as it's the only reversing opportunity between Alnmouth and Berwick.

True - operational convenience.

The Northumberland commuter service used to run to/from Berwick, but this stopped around privatisation, presumably few Berwick passengers would use such a slow service (compared to the non-stop services that the town has to/from Newcastle)

 

[yorksrob]

True.

Assuming that nobody uses the morning arrival or the tea time departure (i.e. the only passengers using it are on the morning service to Newcastle and the tea time arrival from Newcastle) then those 2,642 passengers are 1,321 departures a year.

1,321 departures a year is 25.4 passengers a week. Over the six days that Chathill has a service, that works out at just over four passengers per service.

Maybe there are better things to use a Voyager on?

I don't know. It's not as if you're taking it off of a more deserving service.

 

[tbtc]

I don't know. It's not as if you're taking it off of a more deserving service.

Lets assume that the 08:20 arrival in Newcastle (that the current Chathill service has) is replaced by a stop on the 08:35 arrival in Newcastle. That's the 07:00 Edinburgh - Reading service.

Instead of the 17:15 from Newcastle, Chathill would presumably need a stop on the 17:37 which is the 08:28 Penzance to Glasgow.

Both are pretty long distance services to be slowed down for the sake of the four Chathill passengers. If you were looking for additional stops to be added on these services, I could think of some more deserving ones...

 

[yorksrob]

Both are pretty long distance services to be slowed down for the sake of the four Chathill passengers. If you were looking for additional stops to be added on these services, I could think of some more deserving ones...

That probably is true. However, pragmatically speaking, there's simply nothing else to stop there (and lets face it, it seems less wasteful than dragging a unit all the way there just for the sake of those passengers).

 

[Eagle]

Bear in mind that the linespeed through Chathill is 125, and XC do at or near that passing through. Adding a stop would add a considerable number of minutes to the overall journey time.

 

[The Ham]

You are kidding aren't you. Rush hour drive to Oxford centre from Witney takes nigh on an hour by road. I think there would be a huge demand for a rail service if the station were conveniently located. Witney is growing, the A40 is not, any additional travel infrastructure would be a huge boost and I bet a direct London service would be fairly well utilised notwithstanding path issues closer to Paddington.

I doubt it will ever happen though.

I've never had to drive the A40 in rush hour.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

As a South Yorkshire based traveller, I reckon that the following towns all have a case;

Bawtry (on the ECML)
Haxey/ Westwoodside (on - or rather just off Doncaster-Gainsborough line)
Maltby, Tickhill, Dinnington (all close to current freight lines)

 

[yorksrob]

Bear in mind that the linespeed through Chathill is 125, and XC do at or near that passing through. Adding a stop would add a considerable number of minutes to the overall journey time.

I never said there was a perfect solution with regard to Chathill - only a least imperfect one.

 

[tbtc]

I never said there was a perfect solution with regard to Chathill - only a least imperfect one.

Surely a "least imperfect" solution would be to keep the current Pacer service, rather than stopping a long distance 125mph train for the sake of four passengers?

 

[yorksrob]

Surely a "least imperfect" solution would be to keep the current Pacer service, rather than stopping a long distance 125mph train for the sake of four passengers?

It depends.

In the context of doing nothing, then yes - but that discounts having a direct train service to Alnwick and a much more useful service for the settlements between Morpeth and Alnmouth.

In the context of doing that, it's much better to stop a passing train than having a local service miss out the large settlement which is likely to be a much better revenue generator for that service at the most important times of day, just to serve four people a day in the middle of nowhere.

 

[AlanFry1]

Dunstable, as an extension of the Luton Thameslink service and to kill that busway that they want to rebuild on the trackbed.

Funny how you mention Dunstable as on the Class 319s Dunstable is one of the places on its destination blind .

Also as mentioned definitely Buckingham, Saffron Walden (although GA have promised for a shuttle bus to and from its nearest station), Buntingford and Potton if EWR ever gets to be re-built on the old Sandy-Cambridge stretch and anywhere that had the Great Central Line running through it.

 

[LE Greys]

It depends.

In the context of doing nothing, then yes - but that discounts having a direct train service to Alnwick and a much more useful service for the settlements between Morpeth and Alnmouth.

In the context of doing that, it's much better to stop a passing train than having a local service miss out the large settlement which is likely to be a much better revenue generator for that service at the most important times of day, just to serve four people a day in the middle of nowhere.

Dependent on line capacity, extending the Scotrail Dunbar trains right through to Newcastle would be a much better answer. However, the first four words are the key here.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

How about Leigh in Greater Manchester? Population of over 40,000.

 

[12CSVT]

Dependent on line capacity, extending the Scotrail Dunbar trains right through to Newcastle would be a much better answer. However, the first four words are the key here.

Probably not impossible, but would involve several passing loops being brought to passenger standards, and none of them are within stations (ie, Chevington, Alnmouth, Belford, possibly Berwick-on-Tweed ?, Grantshouse and Drem). Having a local service looped several times to allow faster East Coast and XC services to pass would, in my view, make an Edinburgh to Newcastle stopper impractical, even with quick accelerating class 380s.

 

[LWB]

Has anyone said Otley yet? If not then Otley. The track bed is still there up till the edge of town where a modern parkway could be built. Only a few miles of track puts a sizeable town in touch with Leeds, Bradford, Harrogate, York and beyond. (Ripon even if the Northallerton line suggestions above are implemented.

 

[yorksrob]

Dependent on line capacity, extending the Scotrail Dunbar trains right through to Newcastle would be a much better answer. However, the first four words are the key here.

Fair point. I'm guessing there aren't many trains along there (albeit fast ones).

How about a triangular junction so that stoppers could reverse there. On the plus side they could lay over in Alnwick whilst fast trains pass (although there could be problems with up stoppers crossing over the down line twice).

 

[ainsworth74]

Dependent on line capacity, extending the Scotrail Dunbar trains right through to Newcastle would be a much better answer. However, the first four words are the key here.

Wasn't a study done on this and the determination was that it would have a very low BCR and probably wouldn't attract all that many extra passengers?

 

[tbtc]

Wasn't a study done on this and the determination was that it would have a very low BCR and probably wouldn't attract all that many extra passengers?

There was, yes.

And since the whole point of this is "how can we serve the four passengers of Chathill when the current Northern stopper is diverted to a re-opened Alnwick branch", any FSR EMUs would have to be utilised to serve Newcastle at rush hour - I can't imagine the Holyrood paymasters would be too keen for their EMU to be used for that priority.

 

[yorksrob]

Which leaves stopping a couple of InterCity's.

 

[Eagle]

I could make a case of Ringwood/West Moors/Ferndown/Wimborne/Broadstone (or in other words, reopening the original route of the LSWR mainline between Brockenhurst and Hamworthy). All sizeable towns with a total population between them that's into six figures.

 

[tbtc]

Which leaves stopping a couple of InterCity's.

Or just closing Chathill and putting on a taxi for the four Chathill passengers (from Alnwick)?

 

[Eagle]

Or just closing Chathill and putting on a taxi for the four Chathill passengers (from Alnwick)?

Indeed. Norton Bridge, Barlaston and Wedgwood were closed with more passengers and a higher service level.

 

[yorksrob]

Or just closing Chathill and putting on a taxi for the four Chathill passengers (from Alnwick)?

Tcshhh (the sound gas fitters make when they're about to tell you your boilers on its last legs) - not sure I'd want my reopening proposal for Alnwick jeopardised by an expensive and lengthy closure proceedure. Wouldn't be the right sort of publicity.

 

[tbtc]

Indeed. Norton Bridge, Barlaston and Wedgwood were closed with more passengers and a higher service level.

The only reason for keeping Chathill open is somewhere to cross over (i.e. somewhere the Northern service can terminate).

If it could do that in a newly rebuilt Alnwich branch then you could ditch Chathill (not start slowing down Voyagers to stop there)
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Tcshhh (the sound gas fitters make when they're about to tell you your boilers on its last legs) - not sure I'd want my reopening proposal for Alnwick jeopardised by an expensive and lengthy closure proceedure. Wouldn't be the right sort of publicity.

An Alnwick branch ought to get more than four passengers per train - it'd be an overall boost in passenger numbers - otherwise the tail is wagging the dog.

 

[yorksrob]

The only reason for keeping Chathill open is somewhere to cross over (i.e. somewhere the Northern service can terminate).

If it could do that in a newly rebuilt Alnwich branch then you could ditch Chathill (not start slowing down Voyagers to stop there)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


An Alnwick branch ought to get more than four passengers per train - it'd be an overall boost in passenger numbers - otherwise the tail is wagging the dog.

I thought the trains currently had to go up to Belford to terminate anyway.

I'd certainly expect Alnwick to get more than four passengers a day, but obviously the four at Chathill won't necessarily see the big picture and could kick up a fuss (they might not be a regular four people - it could be a larger community that sees the train as a vital link to the outside on a less regular basis).

I see your point, but I prefer my compromise as I feel it would be the less troublesome workaround.

 

[IanXC]

Surely a "least imperfect" solution would be to keep the current Pacer service, rather than stopping a long distance 125mph train for the sake of four passengers?

I'm not certain, but I think its usually a 156 - certainly has been when I have seen it/travelled on it.

I'm guessing their aren't huge numbers of passengers at Chathill. Presumably they could let them in/out through the guards door.

If the decision were taken to transfer the stop to CrossCountry then no I don't think local door would be much of a problem!

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm not certain, but I think its usually a 156 - certainly has been when I have seen it/travelled on it.

I think it can be either a 142 or 156. It's more likely to be a 156 as they're normally focused on the routes radiating out of Newcastle (with the obvious exception of Whitby services), but 142s are not unknown and I don't think they're uncommon.

 

[d5509]

Funny how you mention Dunstable as on the Class 319s Dunstable is one of the places on its destination blind .

Also as mentioned definitely Buckingham, Saffron Walden (although GA have promised for a shuttle bus to and from its nearest station), Buntingford and Potton if EWR ever gets to be re-built on the old Sandy-Cambridge stretch and anywhere that had the Great Central Line running through it.

Running shuttle bus services, integrated into the NR timetable and ticketing system, to places like Saffron Waldon, Haverhill and Maldon sounds as wonderful: as it probably did just before they lost their rail services!

But of course IF these bus shuttles could be made successful, that might give some justification for a rail link (or a guided busway) so good luck to GA with this initiative.

 

[tbtc]

I'm not certain, but I think its usually a 156 - certainly has been when I have seen it/travelled on it

Fair enough - I still think that any Alnwick branch would kill off Chathill without much argument though

 

[QJ]

I would add the Gosport, Ringwood and Fawley branches to the mix.