Most Inappropriate Stock

[junglejames]

Never yet come across one on here !!

Too many people on here claim voyagers are only hated because they are 4/5 coaches. Apparently if they were longer we would all like them.

 

[Minilad]

Too many people on here claim voyagers are only hated because they are 4/5 coaches. Apparently if they were longer we would all like them.

I think a lot of the hatred stems from them being too crowded and cramped which would be alleviated somewhat by being longer.
But IMO everyone likes / dislikes different stock for different reasons so you will never please everyone all of the time.
And of course some enthusiasts will hate things because what they replaced, I myself am guilty of that to some degree.

 

[Robinson]

So Stafford to Manchester then. Not much benefit really. Whereas reliability improvements benefit the whole network

What about Manchester-Scotland? Surely they'd be better than 185s which are only capable of 100mph?

 

[chris89]

I Don't mind Voyagers at all, But prefer VT's Tilting ones.

But can understand the hating of them, especially on XC routes as on the B'ham - Edinburgh service was completely packed in standard around York for what i can see.

 

[Minilad]

What about Manchester-Scotland? Surely they'd be better than 185s which are only capable of 100mph?

XC don't serve Manchester - Scotland

 

[Robinson]

XC don't serve Manchester - Scotland

I didn't mean to suggest they did. All I meant was the 221s would be better off on that route. Now I may have misjudged (I will admit to not being the most knowledgeable on here, being merely a passenger) but would one of the following not be possible:
1) XC uses more non-tilt stock allowing 221s to be released (e.g. more extensive use of HSTs);
2) Virgin's using 390s on Birmingham-Scotland might mean fewer 221s are required?

Again, I am merely offering suggestions; I may well be wrong.

 

[Minilad]

I didn't mean to suggest they did. All I meant was the 221s would be better off on that route. Now I may have misjudged (I will admit to not being the most knowledgeable on here, being merely a passenger) but would one of the following not be possible:
1) XC uses more non-tilt stock allowing 221s to be released (e.g. more extensive use of HSTs);
2) Virgin's using 390s on Birmingham-Scotland might mean fewer 221s are required?

Again, I am merely offering suggestions; I may well be wrong.

Great idea. I wish we could have more HSTs. Unfortunately there are non spare for us to have

 

[ainsworth74]

1) XC uses more non-tilt stock allowing 221s to be released (e.g. more extensive use of HSTs)

Such as...

(Also bear in mind that XC have 5 HSTs of which 4 are needed everyday (M-F) so I don't see how you can get more extensive use out of them)

 

[Robinson]

Like I said, I don't know all the inside workings; I will inevitably get it wrong sometimes (which I'm allowed to do as I'm not responsible for running the railway!)

 

[northwichcat]

What about Manchester-Scotland? Surely they'd be better than 185s which are only capable of 100mph?

Given that Manchester-Scotland is to be electrified and new stock for XC routes won't be delivered first I think that idea now is a non-starter even though Voyagers were once used on that route. Also once that is done there will be no excuse for DEMUs being used on Birmingham-Scotland as even when the direct route is close they will still have an alternative route that they can use OHE on.

The Newcastle and Middlesbrough to Manchester Airport routes would be ideal for 5 car Voyagers.

Maybe this is what we need for XC: http://csre.co.uk/files/Download/2009 Polaris Data Sheet.pdf

 

[ACE1888]

158s working weekday services on the Lymington Branch Line.

Agreed, total joke

 

[Zoe]

(Also bear in mind that XC have 5 HSTs of which 4 are needed everyday (M-F) so I don't see how you can get more extensive use out of them)

You could transfer them to the Bristol to Manchester route allowing them to be used on more workings through Birmingham New Street each day.

 

[northwichcat]

Agreed, total joke

And there's 508s sitting in storage that SWT could use instead of 158s. SWT's sister company EMT could make far better use of those 158s.

 

[158_Sprinter]

I remember boarding a 153 at Telford Central, travelling to Shrewsbury in the late 90's/early 00's. The unit was operating a Birmingham New Street - Chester service.

In those days I think it was 156's or 158's that they used on the service more regularly.
As you can imagine, by Telford it was standing room only if you were lucky enough to get on!

 

[MK Tom]

A single 158 on Norwich-Liverpool services. Absolutely crammed between Nottingham and Manchester.

I know everyone's saying it but Voyagers on entirely electrified routes really annoys me. Not because I don't like Voyagers, I'm cool with them, it's just a massive waste of fuel.

Also I wish London Midland would run double Desiros on some Euston-Crewe workings, they can be heniously overcrowded at times. I don't know if the platforms at Stone are too short or something, surely they could shut doors out of use like they do when 12-car sets use the slow platforms at Bletchley?

 

[ainsworth74]

You could transfer them to the Bristol to Manchester route allowing them to be used on more workings through Birmingham New Street each day.

You could do that but seeing as the HSTs are deployed to provide extra capacity over the SW-Scotland core it would be somewhat self-defeating to then remove them from there to enable a redeployment of 221s onto Manchester -Scotland TPE services. But seeing as that line is going over to EMUs in the near future it seems pointless anyway to discuss moving 221s onto that route.

 

[SprinterMan]

Never yet come across one on here !!

Hello, I think Voyagers are fantastic things :P
Only been on Virgin ones though.

The most innapropriate trains I have seen are:

Back in Central Trains days, a peak P'boro-Lincoln train was operated by a single 153, which was made unpleasent by the fact about 140 people tried to board the damn thing. I was one of the (un)lucky ones that got to sit on the bike rack :P We must have left a good 40 people behind.

NXEA using a pair of 321/3s on a Norwich - London diagram is upsettingly common here. It is booked as a Mk.3 set with wifi and a buffet car, so you can imagine my dissapointment when 2 grotty 321/3s, both still in FGE livery turn up. There was the odd seat missing and sticky stuff all over the floors.

 

[phil8715]

A class 156 on a stranraer Glasgow service.

 

[valenta]

Great idea. I wish we could have more HSTs. Unfortunately there are non spare for us to have

Virgin made the mistake of getting rid of their HST's and replacing them with Voyagers, which are far inferior to HST's. If the information from another thread is correct XC is getting sold some HST's from Grand Central.

 

[DarloRich]

Too many people on here claim voyagers are only hated because they are 4/5 coaches. Apparently if they were longer we would all like them.

bullsh*t - I hate them because:

1) they are sh*t (end of. NO argument!)
2) They are smelly. The smell of excrement in some of the vestibules is a disgrace. WHY is it not sorted out?
3) They are uncomfortable. What twisted, evil bar steward designed those seats. Was he a mini man? They are about 4 inches wide and 4 inches deep! They must have used the cheapest cardboard possible for the filling!
4) They are unsuitable for the services they run. I don’t care that some people only use them from Birmingham to Derby. I don’t. I use them for long distance travel. They are terrible. Why ship people to Libya to torture them - Put them on an XC Voyager at Edinburgh and by York they will confess to anything!
5) They smell - Not just of excrement but some non descript unpleasant odour.
6) They rattle (EVERYTHING rattles – try working n one. You can’t see your laptop screen sometimes)
7) They are packed – the idiots that ordered a 4 or 5 carriage train to replace a 7 or 8 carriage train should be shot. FFS surely the PR people thought that all the bull they spouted might get people to travel!
8) The people who designed and ordered these trains must not have actually tried them before they were let loose on us poor saps. They should simply be shot! (or made to travel for the rest of time out of BHM on a Friday night at 1700 to see just how stupid their ideas were. They can stand in the vestibule by the bog)
9) They are too short (see point 7)
10) Soon things will fall off them when the vibration becomes too much
11) EVERYTHING inside those things resonates at the same frequency. Could no one damp the bloody engine mounts? Is it beyond the whit of man to put a sodding anechoic plate between the floor and the engine?

they are not a patch on what they replaced. I am not some luddite but surely, SURELY, that was not the best train that we could come up with. What did they reject to buy those? Converted HAA Hoppers? High Speed Pacers? FFS!

Is it too much to ask for a nice, comfortable train? We USED to be able to make them – why cant we now?

 

[Zoe]

You could do that but seeing as the HSTs are deployed to provide extra capacity over the SW-Scotland core it would be somewhat self-defeating to then remove them from there to enable a redeployment of 221s onto Manchester -Scotland TPE services. But seeing as that line is going over to EMUs in the near future it seems pointless anyway to discuss moving 221s onto that route.

The HSTs I believe are used to provide extra capacity through Birmingham New Street and not specifically for the South West to North East/Scotland route.

 

[ainsworth74]

If the information from another thread is correct XC is getting sold some HST's from Grand Central.

I think you're getting confused between one posters suggestions and what is actually happening

The HSTs I believe are used to provide extra capacity through Birmingham New Street and not specifically for the South West to North East/Scotland route.

Not my understanding but fair enough.

bullsh*t - I hate them because:

Long list of valid points

Fair enough you hate them for all of those above reasons. It doesn't change the fact that when I talk to my friends and from what I've overheard other passengers saying the only significant complaint they have is that they can't get a seat. Not the smell or the noise or the comfort of the seats or anything else.

 

[valenta]

I think you're getting confused between one posters suggestions and what is actually happening

Didn't read a certain post carefully enough. Thanks for allerting me!

I think I'll leave quietly

 

[Tomonthetrain]

139s!!! Totally inappropriate for peaks on the Stourbridge Branch Line...plus you can't have the pair in passenger service coupled up together.

 

[SprinterMan]

Didn't read a certain post carefully enough. Thanks for allerting me!

I think I'll leave quietly

Yeah, sorry about that :P, was only suggesting stuff

 

[districtline]

Virgin made the mistake of getting rid of their HST's and replacing them with Voyagers, which are far inferior to HST's. If the information from another thread is correct XC is getting sold some HST's from Grand Central.

This had absolutely nothing to do with Virgin and people should stop blaming them. The timetable that became known as Operation Princess was specified by the dft and this specification included replacing the HSTs. The Voyagers trains themselves were also specified by the DfT not Virgin and so we only ended up with 4/5 coach trains. Virgin tried very hard to convince the dft that this plan was not going to work and get this the order changed to 7 coach Voyagers but the dft would not listen and also would not allow Virgin to keep their HSTs in service after the new timetable started. Virgin had no say in this at all and any other TOC would have done the same as that's what they were required to do by the dft.

 

[ileikcaek]

2 car pacer on the Exmouth - Exeter - Paignton service in the summer months... Absolutely packed - you're lucky if you are able to get on the train. This was our experience last year with our family holiday in Dawlish. How First Great Western thought that was a good idea I'll never know! They were also operating a single 153 unit and two 67's with MK2's or 1's I'm not sure.

I guess they hired in the 67's/carriages to help with the summer flow and the pacers/153 are sufficient at other times of the year.

 

[DarloRich]

Fair enough you hate them for all of those above reasons. It doesn't change the fact that when I talk to my friends and from what I've overheard other passengers saying the only significant complaint they have is that they can't get a seat. Not the smell or the noise or the comfort of the seats or anything else.

I bet they are only doing short journeys. They are so uncomfortable for anything over an hour

 

[junglejames]

Fair enough you hate them for all of those above reasons. It doesn't change the fact that when I talk to my friends and from what I've overheard other passengers saying the only significant complaint they have is that they can't get a seat. Not the smell or the noise or the comfort of the seats or anything else.

Thats because the thing most passengers complain about when onboard is overcrowding. Ive never heard a passenger complain about a pacer. Doesnt mean they all love them though.

 

[DarloRich]

Is anyone actually trying to suggest that the Voyager is an improvement on what it repalced? Really? If they are they cant have travelled much on decent trains! Is Voyager the best product that Virgin could have bought?

They are awful trains which are certainly not suitable for long distance services. Travel from Edinburgh to Plymouth and you will agree. Do that run on an HST (or god forbid LHCS!) and it is a much better experiance for everyone.

I am not a cave dwelling, luddite, techophobe who thinks everything as better in the old days. However, to suggest that a Voyager is an improvemet on the stock they replaced is simply madness.

Why does progress mean a reduction in standards for the passenger?