Most languages used on a railway service?

[bspahh]

This is true in Brussels.
Otherwise...
Try buying a ticket or asking a question in French in Antwerp and you will, at the very least, get a very annoyed look. (And most of the time you will not get an answer in French).
Try buying a ticket in Dutch in Liège... and you will stay in Liège for a very long time

I once drove to Belgium and prepared by learning my motoring vocabulary in French, Flemish and German, only to find that the petrol station sold "unleaded" petrol instead of sans plomb, loodvrij or bleifree.

 

[johnnychips]

Internal Belgian trains are very nice that the announcements aren’t English. It’s either French, Dutch, both in Brussels and German in Eupen. However if you speak to guards or station staff in any of these languages they will reply to you in English, presumably picking up your accent straight away

 

[MarcVD]

Years ago, when there were night trains to Italy, I heard an announcement in Italian in Liège-Guillemins. No prerecorded tapes then, it was all "live".

Sorry to contradict you, but it actually was prerecorded. It was a female voice, but no lady actually ever worked in Liège Guillemins' block 45. Liège was the first station, and for long, the only one, in Belgium, to experiment with a prerecorded message system. Using message segments recorded on micro cassettes (like the ones you would find in a phone answering machine of that time), if I remember well.

 

[MarcVD]

Customer facing staff is required to speak both Dutch and French (the two big languages) and should use the language the customer uses.
Station staff at Eupen (capital of the german speaking part of Belgium) must also speak German.

Internal communication is officially in the language of the region (Dutch in Flanders, French in Wallonia) and both languages are used in Brussel.

Not exactly. Language rules are a touchy subject in Belgium.

People in stations are supposed to use the language of the region where the station is. That is, a ticket window employee in Antwerp is not supposed to understand your request in french, is perfectly allowed to ignore any request not formulated in dutch, or to answer you in dutch only. Same in Liège with French.

In bilingual zones, customer facing employees are supposed to speak both languages. They must pass an exam proving they can do so.

On trains, it dépends where the train is. A train guard must be able to understand and speak the language(s) of all regions where the train will go through. Again, exam required. Guards who did not pass the exam are restricted to trains that do not cross the region's borders.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Every time language comes up someone has to have a go at British people. ...

Fact is, vast number of Brits have a very poor understanding of their own language, certainly their grammar. Contributors on these forums (or forae?) are pretty decent - but even here, you find "your" instead of "you're". This is not like a typo - we all do those - it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the language. Go onto eg a football fans' website, and you find such errors in every third post, or at least every third post of more than ten words.

Ditto use (or misuse) of eg, conditional tenses.

And yes, I would argue many non-native English speakers, especially those from the European mainland, have a better understanding of the grammar, even if they speak with an accent and still make grammatical mistakes (some of which, because of their mother-tongue logic, are extremely difficult to get out of).

If you deem that "having a go at British people" - well, that's your decision. [/QUOTE]

 

[SHD]

Not exactly. Language rules are a touchy subject in Belgium.

People in stations are supposed to use the language of the region where the station is. That is, a ticket window employee in Antwerp is not supposed to understand your request in french, is perfectly allowed to ignore any request not formulated in dutch, or to answer you in dutch only. Same in Liège with French.

In bilingual zones, customer facing employees are supposed to speak both languages. They must pass an exam proving they can do so.

On trains, it dépends where the train is. A train guard must be able to understand and speak the language(s) of all regions where the train will go through. Again, exam required. Guards who did not pass the exam are restricted to trains that do not cross the region's borders.

Yes indeed. I am a Frenchman with some roots (and family) in Belgium, I can use a few icebreaking words in Dutch, and I worked for a few months in Antwerp.

Most Flemish people have a passable command of French, a good chunk of them have a professional command, and there are more than a few true bilinguals (not only in Brussels). Yet, sensitivity is such that speaking in French to a railway employee in Flanders, without at least uttering an « excuseer, ik spreek geen Nederlands » is really, really not the best way to start a conversation.

To be honest, the command of Dutch of the average Walloon - including railway workers - is somewhere between inexistant and mediocre. Yet, you will not be met with hostility if you speak Dutch at Liège-Guillemins or Charleroi-Sud, rather with helplessness.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Fact is, vast number of Brits have a very poor understanding of their own language, certainly their grammar. Contributors on these forums (or forae?) are pretty decent - ....

It's not just Brits - as part of my work, I regularly see horribly constructed, mangled and badly spelled French.

Since you asked, the plural of forum would be "fora" if we spoke Latin, but my huge two-volume Oxford English Dictionary gives both "forums" and "fora" as the plural, in that order. Personally, I'd go for the English plurals with -s for clarity's sake.

Getting back to "most languages used", I had a trip on the Brussels-Amsterdam IC a couple of years back, and the guard had a warning about pickpockets repeated before and after every station stop in French, Dutch, German and English. Got a bit tedious after a while.
And I was on a Brussels-London Eurostar on departure from Brussels which had a long series of announcements in those same four languages - the group of Americans opposite were quite bemused by the length of the announcements and started applauding and cheering once it went quiet.

 

[MarcVD]

Yes there have been several complaints in the past about the strict observance of linguistic laws on international trains, and finally, good old common sense prevailed, so now all announcements on those trains are quadri lingual.

 

[riceuten]

This is true in Brussels.
Otherwise...
Try buying a ticket or asking a question in French in Antwerp and you will, at the very least, get a very annoyed look. (And most of the time you will not get an answer in French).
Try buying a ticket in Dutch in Liège... and you will stay in Liège for a very long time

This is not my experience of extensive travel in Belgium, particularly given Liège's proximity both to Flanders and the Dutch border. Often as not, SNCB staff there will speak at least basic Dutch, if not fluent. In Anvers , what the Flemish object to is people just using French straight away. Almost all are fluent in French, but a "Parlez-vous francais?" goes a long way to generating good will. I wouldn't really expect people from the south of Belgium around Dinant and Namur to speak much Dutch, but they will give it a go if they do.

1. 
   

 

[sheff1]

It can be confusing in Belgium. In Spa I made my request in French and the staff member, obviously sussing my non-local accent, replied in Dutch - which was of no use to me at all ! I asked if they spoke English, to which the reply was a firm "non". The rest of conversation proceeded, without any great hitch, in French .

 

[alangla]

Not a International service as such but last time I travelled on the Gatwick Express in 2016 they had auto announcements in English, German, French and Italian/Spanish IIRC no idea if they still do tho

Stansted Express seems to do about 4 or 5 languages as well. At the other extreme, the last time I was in Montreal about 5 years ago, the Metro had absolutely nothing other than French on posters, PIS boards or announcements. This is in a pretty much bilingual part of Quebec.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also because India used to be part of the British Empire and is still a member of the Commonwealth.

It's also the case that (as often happens in Switzerland as well) people speak their local language plus English and so conversation across borders is in English, not Hindi.

SBB tend to do 3 on IC services, by the way - in the French bit it's French then German then English, in the German bit German then French then English. In the Italian bit one of them is dropped (probably French) and you get Italian instead. I don't think SBB operate in Graubuenden?

 

[axlecounter]

@Bletchleyite well, which Canton is Chur in then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

@Bletchleyite well, which Canton is Chur in then?

Good point

Never been on an SBB train to there, so I have no idea where Romansh comes in, nor which "bing bong" it uses as I'm not aware of a fourth Romansh one!

(Note to the unfamiliar - SBB has a 9-note "jingle" symbolising the letters SBB-CFF-FFS, and which set of 3 notes you get depends on what the primary language of the area you are in is).

is all three.

 

[axlecounter]

There’s probably no rumantsch jingle and as far as I know no announcement in that language is foreseen nor allowed. That doesn’t mean that you could hear the odd one...

 

[Soyyo]

On the AVE Barcelona Girona Paris. Spanish, Catalán, French, English.

 

[riceuten]

Not exactly. Language rules are a touchy subject in Belgium.

People in stations are supposed to use the language of the region where the station is. That is, a ticket window employee in Antwerp is not supposed to understand your request in french, is perfectly allowed to ignore any request not formulated in dutch, or to answer you in dutch only. Same in Liège with French.

In bilingual zones, customer facing employees are supposed to speak both languages. They must pass an exam proving they can do so.

On trains, it dépends where the train is. A train guard must be able to understand and speak the language(s) of all regions where the train will go through. Again, exam required. Guards who did not pass the exam are restricted to trains that do not cross the region's borders.

I've experienced this kind of behaviour before, but mainly, it has to be said, in Flanders. I normally start a conversation there with "Spreekt U Engels of Frans?" ("Do you speak English or French?" in Dutch). I HAVE heard the staff in Guillemins in Liège speaking Dutch - badly - to Dutch speakers. Brussels staff are all bilingual, even though 94% of the population are Francophone, there are a large number of commuters from Flanders visiting every day.

 

[riceuten]

Stansted Express seems to do about 4 or 5 languages as well. At the other extreme, the last time I was in Montreal about 5 years ago, the Metro had absolutely nothing other than French on posters, PIS boards or announcements. This is in a pretty much bilingual part of Quebec.

That's the famed regulation 101. Staff can also choose not to speak in English with you, if they feel so inclined, or don't speak English. To be fair to the Quebecois, English is rarely used on the Paris Metro as well, and you will probably struggle to find an English speaking staff member

 

[riceuten]

Yes indeed. I am a Frenchman with some roots (and family) in Belgium, I can use a few icebreaking words in Dutch, and I worked for a few months in Antwerp.

Most Flemish people have a passable command of French, a good chunk of them have a professional command, and there are more than a few true bilinguals (not only in Brussels). Yet, sensitivity is such that speaking in French to a railway employee in Flanders, without at least uttering an « excuseer, ik spreek geen Nederlands » is really, really not the best way to start a conversation.

To be honest, the command of Dutch of the average Walloon - including railway workers - is somewhere between inexistant and mediocre. Yet, you will not be met with hostility if you speak Dutch at Liège-Guillemins or Charleroi-Sud, rather with helplessness.

This is definitely the case. I made the mistake of speaking a little Dutch in a Francophone area once, and the SNCB/NMBS staff member went and fetched a Dutch-speaking colleague ! Whoops.

 

[SHD]

That's the famed regulation 101. Staff can also choose not to speak in English with you, if they feel so inclined, or don't speak English. To be fair to the Quebecois, English is rarely used on the Paris Metro as well, and you will probably struggle to find an English speaking staff member

Well, to be fair to the Paris metro, there are many plurilingual signs and announcements, but the degree of plurilingualism not always consistent.

Bizarrely, signs such as “Sortie” or “Correspondance” (“exit” and “transfer”) are only in French.

TVMs display French, English, and I think other languages too.

However, many signs are written in three or four languages (including really very specific signs such as “caution, trains may brake hard” or “alarm - penalty for misuse”) and on lines with automated announcements (*), they are provided in several languages - French, English, and depending on the lines a mix of Spanish, Italian, German, Chinese and Japanese. Automated platform announcements (about closed stations for example) are also at least made in two languages.

You will not need to struggle THAT much to find a staff member conversant enough in English to meet the needs of a foreign customer. (However you may need to struggle to find a staff member anyway, especially if you use the level of staffing of the London Underground as a benchmark). I know that the command of English of the average Frenchman is imperfect, but let’s not exaggerate.

(*) compared to the London Underground, in-train announcements in the Paris metro are very laconic. The name of the next station is uttered twice (with two different intonations), there are reminders at stations with a significant gap between the train and the platform, at terminus or junction stations (line 13), and a handful of other messages (“please get off the train on the left” - line 14 at Gare de Lyon, “beware of pickpockets” - almost everywhere).

 

[TRAX]

Good point

Never been on an SBB train to there, so I have no idea where Romansh comes in, nor which "bing bong" it uses as I'm not aware of a fourth Romansh one!

(Note to the unfamiliar - SBB has a 9-note "jingle" symbolising the letters SBB-CFF-FFS, and which set of 3 notes you get depends on what the primary language of the area you are in is).

is all three.

This is great both in idea and execution ! It’s a relaxing jingle too. Is this also found on trains ?

 

[rg177]

This is great both in idea and execution ! It’s a relaxing jingle too. Is this also found on trains ?

Coming to you from aboard the 0509 Konstanz to Luzern, I can tell you that the jingle is played both before automated and manual announcements.

 

[TRAX]

Great ! Also at stations ?

 

[rg177]

Great ! Also at stations ?

Yes, on all SBB-CFF-FFS operated trains and stations.

The Rhätische Bahn also uses a near identical jingle to the German version of the SBB one on the stations they serve.

 

[TRAX]

Nice.

 

[swt class 450]

What is the situation like at Eupen and Hergenrath stations in Belgium (both of which are in the German speaking area)? Do staff at these stations mostly just speak German? Would they likely be able to speak Dutch and French as well?

 

[Spoorslag '70]

What is the situation like at Eupen and Hergenrath stations in Belgium (both of which are in the German speaking area)? Do staff at these stations mostly just speak German? Would they likely be able to speak Dutch and French as well?

Hergenrath is unstaffed, Eupen has German speaking staff, which is highly likely to speak French and probably even a bit of Dutch.

 

[stut]

I once drove to Belgium and prepared by learning my motoring vocabulary in French, Flemish and German, only to find that the petrol station sold "unleaded" petrol instead of sans plomb, loodvrij or bleifree.

I spent a summer living in Brussels and commuting to a place just inside Flanders. The commute repeatedly crossed the linguistic border.

Why was this a problem? Not the language - you can quickly pick up the alternative place names and warnings. No, it was that, at the time, the priority on roundabouts differed. Brussels and Wallonia followed the old-school French "priorite a droite" (i.e. to joining traffic) whereas Flanders followed the now normal priority to traffic on the roundabout.

 

[MarcVD]

Driving code has always been the same for all parts of Belgium. The only power that the régions have is the placement of road signals. If your experience is from a long time ago, then the 'old school' was the code prescription, so the flemish roundabouts had to be explicitly signalled otherwise. This signalling (posted signs plus paint on the ground) makes it quite easy to understand for anyone with normal driving abilities... Now it's the other way around but I don't know of any roundabout that still follows the old rule.

 

[MarcVD]

Hergenrath is unstaffed, Eupen has German speaking staff, which is highly likely to speak French and probably even a bit of Dutch.

In the 50ies, SNCB withdrew almost completely from the german speaking area because management found too expensive and complicated to abide by the specific language laws governing it. They came back 40 years later after having obtained a waiver for the most difficult ones...