Most/least successful recent large infrastructure project?

[thenorthern]

Birmingham New Street rebuilding as its become much nicer inside and its been well integrated with the shopping centre.

A lot of the tramway/light rail projects have been relatively unsuccessful or poorly done with cancelations, delays, budget overruns, project size reductions and not meeting targets.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm sure there's more.

Redhill-Tonbridge electrification - done so that Channel Tunnel freight could be electrically hauled from Willesden.
Never used as such because the use of 92s needed a further signalling upgrade (like the other CTR routes) but was not implemented.

Eurostar lounge at Crewe - it took NR more than a decade to remove the signs to it at the station.
At least the depot at Longsight ("Eurostar habite ici") has finally found a purpose with the new CAF stock,

Better not mention the "Stockport 5" signal boxes and all the remodelling work there which had to be reversed.
We grumble about the state of Manchester's infrastructure, but gazillions have been spent on it in the relatively recent past.

But the TV4 project and Rugby remodelling went well (bar the blockade overrun), and the TASS system which allows 125mph with tilt on the WCML has delivered well.

 

[Kite159]

I'd suggest some of the infrastructure projects in South Wales, sponsored by the Welsh Assembly (as was). Lengthening platforms on the Rhymney and Rhondda lines to 6 car around 10 years ago. Never used. New passing loop at Tir-Phil to allow 30 min frequency north of Bargoed, around 5 years ago. Never used in normal use. (Caveated, as I guess it may be used very occasionally for a late running service.) Bay platforms at Pontypridd and Caerphilly, around 3 years ago. Not yet in normal timetable use, although finally the bay at Caerphilly may get some Sunday action come December. And the crowning glory, the Ebbw Vale double tracking, where much of the track has been laid and left to rust after the project was halted a few years ago.

The bay at Caerphilly gets some use in the evenings with some terminating services, Pontypridd bay is hardly used.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The bay at Caerphilly gets some use in the evenings with some terminating services, Pontypridd bay is hardly used.

Ah, fair enough. Though whether the cost of the bay has been justified by 3 trains in the evening which could just as easily been turned around in the main platforms (as was previously done) given the light traffic is debatable. Still, good to see it’ll be used hourly on Sunday from Dec as part of a much improved timetable on the branch.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Are you aware that there are existing footways passing under the railway beside both the Caversham and the Vastern roads at each end of the station? The subway under the centre of the station connects Station Approach to the south to Trooper Potts/Bagnall Way on the north side where there are bus stops and the northern station entrance. There are no other roads to connect.

Nobody has ever claimed that no trains have been delayed at Reading since the rebuild. But the number of such delays caused by conflicting movements over the series of flat junctions especially after a perturbation in the service has been dramatically reduced. Delays to Down trains waiting on the Down Main back to Sonning Cutting waiting for the single platform are practically non-existent since they now have a choice of three. Reading used to be at or near the top of locations for fGW/GWR's delays; according to one GWR person at a 'meet the manager' type event a couple of years ago it's now down in the noise level.

Yes,I am aware but the underpasses under Forbury Road/Caversham Road rail bridges aren't very nice as they are next to very noisy horrible polluted roads. With the advent of the redevelopment of the old Royal Mail site on Caversham Road and the viaduct works at the Vastern Road end, they could have at least made provision for extra subways at the eastern(Caversham Road)/western (Forbury Road),which could then be done at a later date,perhaps with developer funding to connect the Reading Bridge area and town and the new development on the Royal Mail site/Caversham Road to Station Hill for the public of Reading. I understand that the Reading project was short of money (they couldn't even build a weather-proof footbridge) but it doesn't cost very much to make provision for future services.Maybe the December 2019 timetable will improve things as to delays, but,with all the station and resignalling now completed, it hasn't been that much of an improvement on the old station. Perhaps the future will make smooth running the norm but I'm sceptical.

 

[Meerkat]

Non passenger underpasses are not the railways problem, they are the local councils.
The New Reading station is far better, the old layout with masses of passengers needing to move along the main down platform was ridiculous

 

[Taunton]

I'd count the DLR as a recent success. Especially it's first implementation from Tower Gateway and Stratford down through Canary Wharf and the Isle of Dogs, much on viaduct, for, including rolling stock, £77m. No, that is not a misprint.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Reading's bus station is not really relevant here. It did not close because of the Station redevelopment, but because the out-of-town services that used it had declined to the point where it made more economic sense to close it and sell the land for redevelopment. The local town services mostly avoided the bus station anyway.

Ironically the Bus Station proved its worth during the reconstruction process, as it was reopened to cope with the large numbers of rail replacement buses and coaches that were pressed into service during major blockades. Once the new North Interchange was opened it was no longer needed for this purpose.

Oh,I wasn't talking about the Old Bus Station ,that's a separate topic,although,looking at the way the Green Line bus services are going,there might be more capacity required in terms of intercity bus services again. The Station Hill bus station was closed to create the funny empty plaza which is totally separate to the retail/residential development on the site of the Old Bus Station/Station Hill shops/Friars Walk/the weird underground club/Garrard St car Park/the old Mecca Bingo Hall that is called Station Hill. The large stub of the old approach is still used by football buses and taxis and could be quite easily converted back into a bus station-in fact,access from the station to that bus station for town services would be much more convenient than in the old days,when Station Hill (the road) was a thoroughfare. The intercity/interurban bus/coach services like RailAir and Greenline could go from where they mostly currently go from,just a redesigned sawtooth-style bus bay system designed like High Wycombe Eden bus station by where the cycle racks are today. If you want to envisage what a modern-day Station Hill bus station would look like, look at the modern-day Minster St set of bus stops here :https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place...0b4de20055f2799!8m2!3d51.4547089!4d-0.9713977

 

[AlastairFraser]

Non passenger underpasses are not the railways problem, they are the local councils.
The New Reading station is far better, the old layout with masses of passengers needing to move along the main down platform was ridiculous

It's definitely better,just not as good as it could be.

 

[AM9]

Not wishing to be picky, but I don't quite see something is "commissioned" if trains are not using it. ...

'Commissioned' in respect of an engineering project is the testing and proving that it operates as defined in its requirement specifications. Just like capital warships are commissioned at sea. There is no need to go to war with another navy to prove that they work. ATO in the Thameslink was commissioned in accordance with its requirements, and (presumably) confirmed that it can operate along with the ETCS signalling thereby enabling a 24tph service through the core. It doesn't need to run that service live until the precision control of trains' dwells and speeds is required by 1a 24tph service.

It was very much a political decision to build this stuff in the first place. BR didn’t want to do it, as they knew it would be a commercial sink hole.

Which presumably is why everybody involved directly in HS2 knows that linking it directly to HS1 is a sheer waste of money.

 

[Starmill]

I'd count the DLR as a recent success. Especially it's first implementation from Tower Gateway and Stratford down through Canary Wharf and the Isle of Dogs, much on viaduct, for, including rolling stock, £77m. No, that is not a misprint.

The DLR opened in 1987. This thread is concerned with projects "completed in the last 5 years".

 

[Llandudno]

Llandudno Station refurbishment, looks great but is locked up at 3pm

Chester to Wrexham partial double tracking, any extra services?

Rotherham tram train, way over budget for three non clock face trams per hour

Moorfields station design in Liverpool, you have to go upstairs to go underground

Liverpool South Parkway, looks more like an airport, but platforms too short for Pendolinos

 

[Camden]

The title is most successful/least successful large infrastructure developments though. 2/5 are just dislikes (me too!). The Wrexham track is also due to be utilised, just not yet. Not sure about the tram train, I guess "success" depends on what it was meant to do.

 

[Ken H]

Doesn't the line see a decent amount of use from Drax biomass traffic?

What about Drax gypsum trains to kirby thore in Cumbria? Do they still run and go that way?

 

[R G NOW.]

most: Electrifying the main lines to Cardiff.
least: Abandoning the work to Swansea and to Bristol via bath.

 

[R G NOW.]

The bay at Caerphilly gets some use in the evenings with some terminating services, Pontypridd bay is hardly used.

Same near me in Gloucester. platform 3 is hardly used now and maybe never after December.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Same near me in Gloucester. platform 3 is hardly used now and maybe never after December.

Yes, but it hasn’t recently been opened at, presumably, great expense, which is what this topic is all about. So not a recent project, more a case of a facility ceasing to be used because traffic patterns have made it redundant. Which as all TfW trains now go through to Cheltenham is presumably a good thing.

 

[DarloRich]

It is clear many posters here have no idea what a project is!

Not wishing to be picky, but I don't quite see something is "commissioned" if trains are not using it.

that is because you don't understand the context of the word. I commissioned an office block that stood empty for some time. Everything worked. All the power, gas, electric, water, data, phones were ready to go the moment the new tenants signed on the dotted line.

Llandudno Station refurbishment, looks great but is locked up at 3pm

Could you explain how that is the fault of the project?

The original Eurostar had a lot of facility that was only used for about 15 years, plus more that was never used at all - and the latter includes much rolling stock, outside the scope here. Then the new route has further waste.

Waterloo International
Longhedge flyover
North Pole depot
All the upgrades to track/signalling/power out from Waterloo
The link at Gravesend, including a flying junction on HS1 that was never needed because all services went one way, then changed to only the other.

Stratford station - never finished.
Ebbsfleet - gargantuan station for a trickle of passengers (last train to Europe 13.15).
Goods loops on HS1 that I believe are never used
Ashford station- even less service than Ebbsfleet.

I'm sure there's more.

I am sure there is. I am also sure that politics and the changing manner in which the railways were run at the time played a massive part in this. 20/20 hindsight is wonderful isnt it?

I would suggest one of the most successful projects recently has been the remodelling of Derby station.

I was surprised that no-one had mentioned Derby. I would choose Reading for a large project, Derby for a smaller one, alongside Norton Bridge. In terms of a more distributed project, the EGIP electrification. With the completion of Queen St in a few months, the route will be carrying up to 2000 passengers per hour in each direction. That's what trains are for.

Some good calls there.

latforms 15&16 should have been the first stage of the project, as that would deliver benefits even if the second part (which would be the chord) ended up being Graylinged.

Here we have a real world v perfect world debate.

You may be right but the reality is: do this now and fight for the rest of the money later or do nowt and fight for all of the money later with no certainty you will get a penny of it to spend.

You don't have the luxury of perfection in these circumstances

 

[driver_m]

Doesn’t seem to be a “sexy” project but the Norton Bridge rebuild is for me, a clear winner, it’s massively improved the flow of traffic in the area, improved timings, no having to throw the passengers around at Mill Meece as it is now a thing of the past. The XC trains don’t have to sit at the junction anymore showing clear frustration as LMs and us at VT were shooting past

Least successful

Watford rebuild. NR manage to resignal it and then fail to put the points back in, which are now still missing. I know this isn’t strictly their fault, but we are left to deal with the aftermath every time there’s trouble at the South end of the WCML. No doubt a certain man with a plan might be able to explain this in a way I can t really do (for obvious reasons)

 

[Bald Rick]

Some good calls there.

I’d suggest EGIP doesn’t deserve to be. Way over budget, late, and the most expensive electrification ever in the country (normalised).

 

[The Planner]

Least successful

Watford rebuild. NR manage to resignal it and then fail to put the points back in, which are now still missing. I know this isn’t strictly their fault, but we are left to deal with the aftermath every time there’s trouble at the South end of the WCML. No doubt a certain man with a plan might be able to explain this in a way I can t really do (for obvious reasons)

Id hardly call Harbury landslip a small thing which stopped Watford North going back in, they are planned to go back in 2021.

 

[InOban]

I’d suggest EGIP doesn’t deserve to be. Way over budget, late, and the most expensive electrification ever in the country (normalised).

Care to elaborate? Clearly it was delayed and over budget at the start because of the change in OHLR clearances, and the enhancement of Queen Street wasn't in the earliest spec, and is very much a long term investment, but otherwise?

 

[Bald Rick]

Care to elaborate? Clearly it was delayed and over budget at the start because of the change in OHLR clearances, and the enhancement of Queen Street wasn't in the earliest spec, and is very much a long term investment, but otherwise?

There’s no doubt it has delivered the output, and is delivering much needed extra capacity and reduced journey times. In that respect it is very successful.

However many of the projects listed above are also delivering their outputs, but are not regarded as a success, due to being late or over budget, or both. EGIP was both. It also has a very high cost per km of electrification. Rather higher than the GWML, which as we know is generally branded as being a failed project. Yes there were reasons for the EGIP cost, but there were reasons for GW too. And many others. So I don’t see why EGIP can be seen as an unqualified success. It wasn’t.

(The electrification cost doesn’t include the QS rebuild, and the cost increases were not all down to the change in electrification clearances, far from it. Indeed there is some argument that the change in electrification clearances wasn’t even a change).

 

[Bald Rick]

Having done some thinking, a project that went largely unnoticed, but delivered very significant benefits on programme and on budget was the Southern Metro platform extensions, enabling 10 car operation on most of the network. That must be a contender.

 

[Taunton]

It is clear many posters here have no idea what a project is! … that is because you don't understand the context of the word.

I think it is only fair to advise that this has caused a certain amount of mirth in the office today

There’s no doubt it [EGIP] has delivered the output, and is delivering much needed extra capacity and reduced journey times. In that respect it is very successful.

I have to point out regarding journey times that in 1971, nearly 50 years ago, the 2 x Class 27 push-pulls were doing Edinburgh Haymarket to Glasgow QS all day long in 39 minutes. In my experience always achieved (and once spectacularly beaten). In the new world, electrification, brand-new stock, etc (all the push-pulls were secondhand) the fastest daytime service is, alas, still 39 minutes.

 

[Bald Rick]

I have to point out regarding journey times that in 1971, nearly 50 years ago, the 2 x Class 27 push-pulls were doing Edinburgh Haymarket to Glasgow QS all day long in 39 minutes. In my experience always achieved (and once spectacularly beaten). In the new world, electrification, brand-new stock, etc (all the push-pulls were secondhand) the fastest daytime service is, alas, still 39 minutes.

Which intermediate stations did they call at in 1971?

 

[InOban]

There’s no doubt it has delivered the output, and is delivering much needed extra capacity and reduced journey times. In that respect it is very successful.

However many of the projects listed above are also delivering their outputs, but are not regarded as a success, due to being late or over budget, or both. EGIP was both. It also has a very high cost per km of electrification. Rather higher than the GWML, which as we know is generally branded as being a failed project. Yes there were reasons for the EGIP cost, but there were reasons for GW too. And many others. So I don’t see why EGIP can be seen as an unqualified success. It wasn’t.

(The electrification cost doesn’t include the QS rebuild, and the cost increases were not all down to the change in electrification clearances, far from it. Indeed there is some argument that the change in electrification clearances wasn’t even a change).

But do the increased costs include the cost of platform lengthening at Croy etc for the 8 coach trains? And in many cases the opportunity was taken to replace bridges with wider structures. Where do you think that the increased costs arose?

 

[Bald Rick]

But do the increased costs include the cost of platform lengthening at Croy etc for the 8 coach trains? And in many cases the opportunity was taken to replace bridges with wider structures. Where do you think that the increased costs arose?

The increased costs include lots of things. But it’s important to note that this is the same for all the other electirifcation projects. For example The electrification costs for the Shotts line include platform lengthening, rebuilding Station Rd in Shotts, the access for all bridges, Briech station (!), the changes to clearances, and plenty more besides. And it was still less than half the cost per km of EGIP. (And on time / on budget).

 

[DarloRich]

I think it is only fair to advise that this has caused a certain amount of mirth in the office today

That is good but my point remains. Perhaps you could answer my point. I will set it out again for you:

I commissioned an office block that stood empty for some time. Everything worked. All the power, gas, electric, water, data, phones were ready to go the moment the new tenants signed on the dotted line.

Does that not count as commissioning? Perhaps, using you experience, you could explain why that is not commissioning. Perhaps you could explain what it is.

Watford rebuild. NR manage to resignal it and then fail to put the points back in, which are now still missing. I know this isn’t strictly their fault, but we are left to deal with the aftermath every time there’s trouble at the South end of the WCML. No doubt a certain man with a plan might be able to explain this in a way I can t really do

There was a landslip that closed the Marylebone route at the same time and all parties though it was a good idea to curtail the works at Watford to allow for services to run It is worth noting that it was a decision taken by all stakeholders. The work is scheduled for some point in the future.

Doesn’t seem to be a “sexy” project but the Norton Bridge rebuild is for me, a clear winner, it’s massively improved the flow of traffic in the area, improved timings, no having to throw the passengers around at Mill Meece as it is now a thing of the past. The XC trains don’t have to sit at the junction anymore showing clear frustration as LMs and us at VT were shooting past

Agreed

I’d suggest EGIP doesn’t deserve to be. Way over budget, late, and the most expensive electrification ever in the country (normalised).

Agreed - but, again, very popular with the customers and the politicos in particular. Could there be a trend here?

(Scotland route are also very happy)

 

[Bungle965]

A lot of the tramway/light rail projects have been relatively unsuccessful or poorly done with cancelations, delays, budget overruns, project size reductions and not meeting targets.

Can you give some examples of light rail projects/tramway that have been unsuccessful?
Sam