Most under-developed rail corridor? (examples)

[30907]

What surprises me is that (whilst there's not a lot of paths south of Bolton for additional Manchester - Blackburn services) there's been no attempt to switch the services at Blackburn into

• Manchester - Blackburn - Burnley - Colne
• Blackpool South - Preston - Blackburn - Colne

That would give Burnley/ Altricham a regular service to Manchester.

Do you mean Blackpool-Clitheroe? and Accrington for Altrincham?
Unfortunately, as you say, it would require an extra unit...
And I reckon most business travellers from the Ribble Valley would still drive down the A59.

The basic problem with the East Lancs (I speak as a new-ish resident, in a place with no station at all) is the infrastructure - Farington Jn slows you right down, as does Accy viaduct, Copy Pit has all sorts of geological issues, and I don't see much chance of improving any of them.
Frequent stops on the Colne trains, which I reckon is unavoidable (I know there were some semi-fasts in the steam era but...).
And is there still that peculiar TMO crossing beyond Nelson?

So the only way to go is better frequencies. That means a loop on the Colne line, and something drastic doing to Blackburn-Bromley Cross. I think we should be pushing for Blackburn-Bolton electrification as an add-on to the NW job - but then what about Clitheroe?

 

[Hellfire]

. I think we should be pushing for Blackburn-Bolton electrification as an add-on to the NW job - but then what about Clitheroe?

Blackburn Bolton electrification would have to be in tandem with doubling the tracks. That would allow a 30 min service all day.

 

[PR1Berske]

Blackburn Bolton electrification would have to be in tandem with doubling the tracks. That would allow a 30 min service all day.

The local geography is such that doubling is not an option.

 

[yorksrob]

The local geography is such that doubling is not an option.

Though some well spaced loops might bring almost as good a benefit.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Regardless of any case for SELRAP leading to a major strategic route. I cannot see why anyone tries to argue that branch lines termjnating in the middle of no-where make efficient use of labour and capital. A train running to, say, Colne or Uckfield is guaranteed to be 90% empty for much of the way. Give the same train a useful onward destination, preferably somewhere big like Leeds or Eastbourne/Brighton respectively, and the train and the line have much more even loadings and earn their keep instead of hauling empty air for most of the route.

Quite. You can include Winchester - Alton in that as well. To think that six years after Beeching they were creating branchlines out of what were previously through routes beggars belief (Richard Marsh has a lot to answer for !). For Uckfield - Lewes, I see it as part of the longer corridor between Tunbridge Wells and Brighton that I'd like to see reinstated.

 

[underbank]

I'd nominate the carnforth to skipton to leeds line. Going from North Lancashire or South Cumbria to Leeds or York is absolutely horrid - that's if you can find a train! Most people do it by road. Considering Leeds is now a major city, and there is a very good double line already in place, it's a disgrace that there's only a few very slow and painful NR trains. A decent rail service would really open up opportunities for people to work in Leeds rather than having to travel down to Manchester or up to Carlisle.

 

[Hellfire]

The local geography is such that doubling is not an option.

This line used to be doubled. It was singled up in the 1970s. The geography hasn't changed since then. Doubling the line was part of the recent £8 million proposals.

 

[Inox]

This line used to be doubled. It was singled up in the 1970s. The geography hasn't changed since then. Doubling the line was part of the recent £8 million proposals.

I'd agree. Although I'm not sure about the tunnel under Bradshaw gate doubling looks tight....

Anyone have any pictures of olde Bolton Station with the doubling or the triangle between Blackburn and Wigan way?

Dave.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
there's a pic here:

looks to be double track under Bradshawgate:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ingythewingy/5064704105/in/photostream/

i stand corrected.

 

[30907]

I'd nominate the carnforth to skipton to leeds line. ... A decent rail service would really open up opportunities for people to work in Leeds rather than having to travel down to Manchester or up to Carlisle.

I agree about the service but I would have thought commuting into Lancaster was a more likely candidate, given the state of the parallel road, and I think that's what the local user group have been pushing for in terms of extra trains.

The problem with a Leeds commute is that almost everyone would start their journey by car so it's much easier just to use the A65/A629 and park near Steeton and Silsden (or in the car park if you get there early!) in the Metro zone. Or at the likes of Hellifield which between the two routes now have a reasonable service.

 

[davido39]

I expect that most people's answer will coincidently be their local line.

Instead, I'll suggest the Durham Coast line from Middlesbrough/ Stockton/ Hartlepool to Sunderland/ Newcastle/ Metro Centre. An hourly 142/156 up the coast is fairly poor (even allowing for a token GC service from Hartlepool to Sunderland), especially when you consider how poorly the railway serves places like Peterlee... there's a real potential for investment (but apparently little appetite).

The Durham Coast line lost its services to Leeds/ Manchester at the Transpennine reorganisation too - apart from a few GC services you can't easily get as far as York.

You suspect wrong my friend my local line just happens to have a great service. That being Kilmarnock Glasgow. But my old local line really needs a kick up the rail fishplates (sorry all I could come up with ) that of the previously mentioned Blackpool South - Colne line. What was once under used is now doing pretty well, on my recent visit I witnessed quite a busy scene on the Preston to Accrington leg of my trip.

 

[dk1]

Dore has a rather stupid service, their are more trains that call their for passgengers travelling to/from Manchester 40 odd miles away then Sheffield Midland which is 5 miles away

Did i not hear that Dore will get an additional platform when the junction is re-doubled? Would imagine it has a good bus service into Sheffield.

 

[Welshman]

At the risk of repeating complaints about the Stoke-Derby line in another thread, may I suggest the Crewe-Stoke-Derby-Nottingham-Grantham Corridor?

There is potential here for a fast West-East link:- North & Mid-Wales to the Midlands and into Lincolnshire & East Anglia. Given decent stock and a fast schedule, it would beat driving along the A50 any day.

Instead, we get several changes and a 153 stopping at all lamp-posts between Crewe & Derby.

 

[tbtc]

You suspect wrong my friend my local line just happens to have a great service. That being Kilmarnock Glasgow

TBH I'd have accepted the Kilmarnock line as an "under developed" one when compared with the "parallel" service that Ayr gets into Glasgow (more trains, longer trains, younger trains). Money is being spent on the Killie line, about time too!

Did i not hear that Dore will get an additional platform when the junction is re-doubled? Would imagine it has a good bus service into Sheffield.

It will. The Dore chord is a real bottleneck (a station on a single track chord between two double track lines that see up to three passenger trains an hour and plenty of freight too), so this should improve things a lot.

The First SY 97/98 pass the station- Tridents/Presidents every ten minutes into Sheffield (compared to a Pacer every two hours - although there are some Sprinters and a better service on a Saturday when there's less freight around).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do you mean Blackpool-Clitheroe? and Accrington for Altrincham?

Yes, yes I did. Apologies.

 

[grahame]

Nomination ... Swindon to Salisbury

(Swindon - Chippenham - Melksham - Trowbridge - Westbury - Dilton Marsh - Warminster - Salisbury)

Currently 2 Monday to Friday through trains per day soutbound, none northbound. Centre section of line between Chippenham and Trowbridge has just 2 trains each way per day, less on Sunday

 

[PR1Berske]

This line used to be doubled. It was singled up in the 1970s. The geography hasn't changed since then. Doubling the line was part of the recent £8 million proposals.

I stand corrected. But I still suspect it won't be particularly easy to return to that state with contemporary economics being as they are.

 

[Requeststop]

Par- Newquay. I have always been astounded at the poor service on this line. 6 trains a day, weekdays. I rarely considered travelling from West Cornwall to Newquay by train as connections were so poor.both travelling to and from Newquay. If ever a corridor needed developing then Par-Newquay is one.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Did i not hear that Dore will get an additional platform when the junction is re-doubled? Would imagine it has a good bus service into Sheffield.

That is right, however it will still have the same amount of trains calling their, during the day its an every 2hrly service, the major problem is Dore used to be a 4 platform station which platforms for the Chesterfield line, it was hoped that this would be the case again but Network Rail dont seem to be on the same planet as the travelling public :roll:

As for the buses the route 97/98 (which passes Dore station) are provided by First South Yorkshire and have a combinded service of every 7-8 minutes during the day, However nearly every public transport passenger in Sheffield & South Yorkshire are Anti-First Group.

 

[Buttsy]

The Whitby line could do with improvements, such as an additional unit to double the service and an additional platform at Whitby to allow more NYMR services.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

The Whitby line could do with improvements, such as an additional unit to double the service and an additional platform at Whitby to allow more NYMR services.

How long does it take from Middlesborough to Whitby ? looking at the line it seems to zig-zag along the tops of the North Yorkshire Moors?

 

[Buttsy]

How long does it take from Middlesborough to Whitby ? looking at the line it seems to zig-zag along the tops of the North Yorkshire Moors?

About 1.5 hours. Only one unit is used currently on the diagram.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

About 1.5 hours. Only one unit is used currently on the diagram.

Ouch thats a slow service

Did I not hear that the NYMR had been given the green light to run more trains into Whitby and are taking over one of the platforms in the station ?

 

[DarloRich]

Ouch thats a slow service

Did I not hear that the NYMR had been given the green light to run more trains into Whitby and are taking over one of the platforms in the station ?

they have been running trains to Whitby for several years now. There are some plans to rebuild the second platform at Whitby and increase run round facilities

 

[davido39]

TBH I'd have accepted the Kilmarnock line as an "under developed" one when compared with the "parallel" service that Ayr gets into Glasgow (more trains, longer trains, younger trains). Money is being spent on the Killie line, about time too!



It will. The Dore chord is a real bottleneck (a station on a single track chord between two double track lines that see up to three passenger trains an hour and plenty of freight too), so this should improve things a lot.

The First SY 97/98 pass the station- Tridents/Presidents every ten minutes into Sheffield (compared to a Pacer every two hours - although there are some Sprinters and a better service on a Saturday when there's less freight around).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---




Yes, yes I did. Apologies.

The Ayr line has always been the first to receive investment within the SPT area, now there are six trains an hour to Glasgow, (it's somewhat of a strange sensation when passing PGS) and I get your argument of the Ayr line being parallel to the Kilmarnock Glasgow corridor but the nearest train station is 5 miles away from Kilmarnock.

I have to admit if I'm going to Glasgow and not in a hurry I catch the Girvan train as far as Ayr, (be better to take the train as far as Troon) I do like the new units used on the Ayr Glasgow line, oh and the little coffee kiosk at Ayr station does a great coffee.

What I do see is a lot of people posting on the Lancashire lines. Accrington used to be a junction station for trains to Manchester, I know
Todmorden Curve will be re-opened for connections to Manchester with talk of Accrington being a turning point. The irony!

Hopefully if SELRAP get their way there may be a direct route to Skipton instead of having to take the train to Leeds then changing trains for Skipton, imagine the time you'd save if there was a direct train to Skipton.

Investing on the lines in East Lancashire surely would pay dividends. On the Bolton Clitheroe line why not do what they did on the Kilmarnock Glasgow line and install a dynamic loop and increase services to 2 trains an hour? Surely a dynamic loop would not cost as much to install? Another thing that should be looked at is not just installing the knitting as far as Bolton but extend it to Clitheroe, that way their would be no need to use diesel units beyond Bolton, the advantage being the Manchester Bolton - Preston (via Lostock Junction) Clitheroe being all electric traction.

 

[dk1]

As for the buses the route 97/98 (which passes Dore station) are provided by First South Yorkshire and have a combinded service of every 7-8 minutes during the day, However nearly every public transport passenger in Sheffield & South Yorkshire are Anti-First Group.

Seems to happen with First Group. Their trains division has a reasonable reputation whereas the bus side comes in for much critisism. National Express are totally the opposite.

 

[davido39]

Seems to happen with First Group. Their trains division has a reasonable reputation whereas the bus side comes in for much critisism. National Express are totally the opposite.

first Group have lost their way with their bus operation, the very business that made First who they are today!
They are selling under performing bus operations like hot cakes at the moment, with rivels Like Stagecoach (who still believes in investment in their bus division) snapping them up.

Stagecoach operate both buses and trains as does First but still invest in both division's, go figure!

 

[317666]

It's not really a line as such, but the service from Cambridge to Stansted is personally shocking. Two maybe three carriages an hour? Coming from as far away as Birmingham (and once a day Gloucester) the potential for delays is huge.

To be fair there is always the option of taking a Liverpool Street service and changing at Bishops Stortford, although passengers with lots of luggage may not want to do this. I certainly agree that 170s are completely unsuitable for Stansted - Birmingham trains though!

 

[s'land]

I expect that most people's answer will coincidently be their local line.

Instead, I'll suggest the Durham Coast line from Middlesbrough/ Stockton/ Hartlepool to Sunderland/ Newcastle/ Metro Centre. An hourly 142/156 up the coast is fairly poor (even allowing for a token GC service from Hartlepool to Sunderland), especially when you consider how poorly the railway serves places like Peterlee... there's a real potential for investment (but apparently little appetite).

The Durham Coast line lost its services to Leeds/ Manchester at the Transpennine reorganisation too - apart from a few GC services you can't easily get as far as York.

As far as I know it was only Sunderland that lost the Transpennine service and this ran via Newcastle, a Transpennine Service never ran down the Durham Coast as far I know, however there was a debate about running some Transpennine/Crosscountry sevices via the Durham Coast, but i've never heard anything more of it. Middlesbrough still has a Transpennine service though.

 

[sprinterguy]

As far as I know it was only Sunderland that lost the Transpennine service and this ran via Newcastle, a Transpennine Service never ran down the Durham Coast as far I know, however there was a debate about running some Transpennine/Crosscountry sevices via the Durham Coast, but i've never heard anything more of it. Middlesbrough still has a Transpennine service though.

In general you are correct - Sunderland's Transpennine service was a bi-hourly extension of the Liverpool to Newcastle service, however there was also a smattering of Transpennine services from Manchester Airport that ran the full length of the Durham Coast route to terminate at Newcastle. I remember there being one on a Saturday morning. Extensions of the Middlesbrough service, I presume.

 

[Welshman]

a Transpennine Service never ran down the Durham Coast as far I know,

You're right - but they did run down the Durham Coast in the days when they were simply Trans-Pennine services, and not "Trans-Pennine Express" services!

Going back to the days when Adam was nobbut a lad in the 1960s, I remember riding the 3.16pm Newcastle-Liverpool service. It was usually Cl.40-hauled with Mk 1 coaches, and stopped at the main Durham Coast stations, then Eaglescliffe and Northallerton. IIRC, it then went via Ripon & Harrogate, and to complete the scenic tour, it trundled via Wetherby to approach Leeds City from the north, to save the loco having to change ends before going on to Huddersfield. I remember there was also a northbound-working, but can't remember the timings as well as I never used it.

 

[sprinterguy]

You're right - but they did run down the Durham Coast in the days when they were simply Trans-Pennine services, and not "Trans-Pennine Express" services!

Not quite right - see above.

 

[Welshman]

When the "Trans-Pennine" dmus took over from steam on the Hull-Liverpool route in January 1961, they also introduced diesel engines on the Newcastle-Liverpool route.

I think there were 3 or 4 a day from Newcastle to Liverpool, and vv, and certainly one of these, the 3.16pm from Newcastle, went via the Durham Coast.