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MPs have informal talks over forming new party

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northwichcat

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The Guardian said:
Tory and Labour MPs have held informal discussions about establishing a new political party in the event of Andrea Leadsom becoming prime minister and Jeremy Corbyn staying as Labour leader, a cabinet minister has disclosed.

Senior players in the parties have discussed founding a new centrist grouping in the mould of the Social Democratic party (SDP) should the two main parties polarise, according to the minister. Talks should be taken seriously, though they are still at an early stage, according to the source.

“There have been talks between Labour and Tory MPs about a new party,” the minister said. “A number of my colleagues would not feel comfortable in a party led by Andrea Leadsom.”

It is understood that MPs in both parties who campaigned to remain in the European Union believe there is an opportunity to build on the newly founded relationships between centrist MPs in both parties made before the EU referendum.

A Tory party source said Labour and Conservative MPs who campaigned in favour had become closer during the campaign and increasingly come to regard themselves as “a tribe”.

“Nothing will happen until the Tory leadership election, but people are talking about this in the tearooms [in parliament],” the source said.

A senior Labour party source confirmed that at least one Conservative minister and one of the shadow cabinet ministers who resigned last week had been involved in discussions about such a reshaping of British politics.

“There is a feeling that there might have to be a new party at the centre of British politics,” he said. “It’s early days, but the conversations are at a pretty high level.”

The suggestion comes as the Liberal Democrat peer Shirley Williams demands a central role for all pro-EU parties at Westminster in shaping the UK’s relationship with the EU. She warns that, without a cross-party consensus on the final deal, the country could fall apart in bitter post-Brexit division and acrimony.

Williams, who was one of the Labour “gang of four” who broke away from Labour in 1981 to form the SDP, says that Labour under Corbyn is in disarray and unable to provide effective opposition as the UK plans for Brexit – the biggest, most far-reaching challenge for the country and Europe in a generation.

In an article in the Observer that has strong echoes of an open letter she wrote to the Guardian 35 years ago, about the Labour party’s desperate plight after it voted to quit the European Community in 1981, she calls for all those on the pro-EU centre-left at Westminster to join forces with the SNP and pro-EU Tories to stamp their mark on any Brexit deal.

Their joint mission, she argues, must be to ensure that the 48.1% who voted to remain on 23 June have their share of input into the eventual deal after what was a knife-edge referendum result.

If there is not a willingness on both sides to compromise, she suggests the union with Scotland will be at an end and a rump UK will be left disunited and scarred.

Her comments reflect a growing view at Westminster that, following the 51.9% to 48.1% vote for Leave – after a campaign in which the Out camp made promises, many of which they now admit will be difficult to deliver – the views of those on the Remain side must be respected when the future of the country is determined.

Williams says the answer is for a cross-party committee to be established in parliament involving Labour, the SNP, the Lib Dems, the Greens and pro-EU Tories, which would have to approve any final deal negotiated on the UK’s future EU relationship.

She writes: “With Labour in such disarray, how do we ensure that our future, long-term relationship with the European Union truly reflects the range of disparate opinion in this country, in a way that will avoid the referendum result leaving an appalling legacy of division? Over the next two years the consequences of our departure from the EU will become clear and disturbing.

“Two things are crucial. First, we must see the committed involvement of those representing all sides of the debate in the UK in the renegotiation of our long-term relationship with the EU.

“That means, secondly, that all parties represented in parliament should take part in a monitoring committee to oversee the negotiations as they proceed.

“Parties that supported staying in the EU must be part of this committee, including Labour, the SNP, the Lib Dems and the Greens, as well as the pro-Remain element of the Conservative party.”

The impact of the decision to leave is only just dawning, Williams says, noting: “With every passing day, the problems confronting the new prime minister multiply.”

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/labour-tory-mps-talk

Interesting idea as I think it could result in no party getting an overall majority at forthcoming elections and also pacts being formed between parties.
 
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90sWereBetter

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I'd very much vote for the SDP 2.0 should such a party form. I grew to support Corbyn, but the famous John Lydon quote "ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" kinda sums up the last two weeks for me. Should Corbyn win the leadership election and Momentum start deselecting fantastic constituency MPs like Stella Creasy/Wes Streeting et al, I will never vote Labour again.

Leadsom is one of very few Tories to be ideologically close to the GOP (the biggest extremist party in the world quite frankly), which is quite terrifying from a British viewpoint.
 
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Moonshot

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Not an altogether bad idea - I would certainly vote for a party which held the centre ground and had common sense policies.
 

SS4

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Not a bad idea, I just hope the Press don't sabotage their attempts like they did with Corbyn
 

deltic

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I was an early member of the SDP - it's failure was that it never managed to pick up leftish Tories - I seem to recall only one Tory MP defected. Unlike Labour the Conservative party seem better at keeping together to ensure they get into power - only 2 Tory MPs defected to UKIP and rumour has it that Caswell may be tempted back into the fold. To be successful any new centrist party needs to do far better at tempting Tory MPs to join than the SDP was.
 

backontrack

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I don't really like the sound of that, in all honesty. We could end up with only one party.
 

backontrack

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Only if that is what the majority wanted.

I doubt that IDS, Farage, Leadsom, Gove & co. could muster up enough convincing spin.

Also, I'm worried that the 'centrist' party would have a right-wing balance.
 

cjmillsnun

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They exist, and recently have had their membership grow. They're still way behind where they were before the coalition, but they aren't dead yet.
 

Tim R-T-C

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Not a bad idea, I just hope the Press don't sabotage their attempts like they did with Corbyn

I prefer a sceptical press to a sycophantic one. If you can survive press maulings then you can last in government.
 

edwin_m

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I prefer a sceptical press to a sycophantic one. If you can survive press maulings then you can last in government.

Fair enough if the press is equally sceptical of both sides, maybe not in the same paper but as a balance of coverage as a whole. I believe that isn't the case at present, and that our democracy is far the worse for it.
 

Bevan Price

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Both main parties are in a bit of disarray - but I don't think the country is yet ready to elect a third party.

Labour - I think that Mr. Corbyn is intelligent and sincere - but rather like Michael Foot, he has not a cat in hell's chance of getting enough votes to become PM -- unless Mrs Leadsom becomes Tory PM and tries to move policy to the far right. Then, and only then, might the electorate see Mr Corbyn as the less objectionable choice.

However, by then Labour may have disintegrated as an effective united party. With backing from TUs and "new militant", Mr Corbyn will probably win any leadership election. Many anti-Corbyn MPs could be deselected and replaced by "new militant" supporters - many of whom will be rejected by the public at the nest general election. The problem for the anti-Corbyn wing is that if they leave Labour, they, too, will be unable to get enough votes to have much impact. Like it or not, in "normal" circumstances, only a moderate, slightly leftish, Labour party is likely to have a chance of winning a UK general election.

If Mrs May becomes PM, UK can probably expect at least another 15-20 years of Tory government - or at least until Scotland gets fed up with SNP.
 
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Busaholic

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Though they are perhaps a little far left. I'd envisage this new party to be a bit more like Blairite Labour.


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Labour have to ditch both Corbyn and Blair, or ,rather, their supporters and philosophies. One has failed the people, the other will fail the ordinary people if he puts his own agenda and pig-headedness before the needs of the country. Forget them both, they are yesterday's people. Move on!
 

edwin_m

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Labour have to ditch both Corbyn and Blair, or ,rather, their supporters and philosophies. One has failed the people, the other will fail the ordinary people if he puts his own agenda and pig-headedness before the needs of the country. Forget them both, they are yesterday's people. Move on!

I largely agree with this, but what (or who) is the alternative for Labour?
 

northwichcat

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The problem with the Lib Dems is that they've got a lot of baggage from the Coalition era, notably Tuition fees

Really the Lib Dems need to get someone good at PR.

With inheritance tax the Lib Dems blocked the Tory plans to raise the threshold but that only delayed it until the Conservatives had a majority.

With tuition fees at the time it seemed like the Lib Dems did the wrong thing - they allowed the fees to be raised on condition that the repayment terms are more favourable. However, since the last election the Tories haven't tried to change the Lib Dem compromised repayment terms so with hindsight it was perhaps the right decision despite the conflict with the Lib Dem policy of axing tuition fees.

Blair or Cameron wouldn't have lost so many MPs in the same circumstances.
 
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Bletchleyite

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Labour have to ditch both Corbyn and Blair, or ,rather, their supporters and philosophies. One has failed the people, the other will fail the ordinary people if he puts his own agenda and pig-headedness before the needs of the country. Forget them both, they are yesterday's people. Move on!

I didn't so mean actual Blair, I just meant that sort of centre-left-ish territory - the kind of thing you would get from a social democratic party somewhere like Germany.
 

Busaholic

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I largely agree with this, but what (or who) is the alternative for Labour?

It's a big problem. I wonder whether Bryan Gould can be persuaded back from NZ - he lost out to John Smith in the leadership contest back when, and I've often felt he was in many ways the guy who could have best built the Labour Party back into a governing party that didn't seek to ape the Conservatives. Actually, if Sadiq Khan had not got the London mayoralty I would have thought he might be the best-suited, but with the current atmosphere stoked up by UKIP and its fellow travellers in the North of England his background might have counted against him in securing enough votes to retain seats in some constituencies.
 

Howardh

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If Mrs May becomes PM, UK can probably expect at least another 15-20 years of Tory government.

Unless Labour sort themselves out, that's very likely (is that the "democracy" Brexit voted for?<D) BUT they have to appease those of us who voted remain in that we get an EU-lite so we keep some semblance of FoM and other benefits.
I won't be voting for my Toryboy MP again (in a marginal) as he's a Brexiter - I'm just looking at the alternatives; probably Labour as if they can get organised, a shift of 400 votes form C to L in my constituency gives him the boot.
 

AM9

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Sorry, but that isn't how it works John. I know you like authoritarianism when it suits you, though. :)

Brexiteer hypocrisy continues...

It must be getting a bit uncomfortable for the Brexit lot. First, their cheerleader has resigned (Farage), next, their best hope of a new Conservative leader is knifed by an erstwhile friend, then the three most ardent brexit candidates in the leader competition are eliminated in the heats, and now their last brexit fan has been forced to withdraw from the race, leaving a (slightly) remain supporter to walk into the job.
Every day that passes, the country continues to slide down the league table of trading nations, soon the cost of imported items will start to rise when bought with low value pounds, then international companies will start to relocate workforces within the EU so unemployment will rise.
Then their credibility will really start to evaporate when the poor hardworking population start to feel the pain, - probably before Christmas.
And all of this will be before there is any formal approach on Article 50. This house of cards game has a lot more embarassment to bring to those who thought that the referendum was all that was needed. Meanwhile, those who were taken in and helped them get their 'sub-4% landslide' will be suffering as much as the recession in 2010-2013. I do genuinely feel for the poorest of those unfortunate voters.
 

ianhr

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They do if they don't want to lose all the Bremainer votes at the next election / lose politicians to other parties.

Now that ghastly old douche bag Leadsom has been assassinated this must be the "Cleaning of the Augean Stables". My Greek mythology is a little rusty but I seem to recall that they had not been cleaned out for 30 years.
 
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