My ideas for improving services to Lincoln

[Waverley125]

Currently Lincoln gets a pretty shoddy service for a city of nearly 100,000 people, and the main centre of all of Lincolnshire.

Despite this, there's got to be some way of improving services to Lincoln. A few thoughts below:

Lincoln - London via GNGEJ

Extend the current fast FCC service (Stevenage, St Neots, Huntingdon) to Lincoln with calls at Spalding, a new Boston Parkway and Sleaford. Would have journey times of approx. 2 hours. (Yes, would require wiring, but there's support from freight operators to do that plus line speed upgrades anyway).

Lincoln - Swansea (XC)

Add a second hourly XC service on the Nottingham - Cardiff corridor, with a southwestern extension through to Swansea.

Calling:

Newark Castle, Nottingham, Derby, Burton on Trent, Tamworth, New Street, University, Cheltenham, Gloucester, Chepstow, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath

This would have the benefit of allowing a second Birmingham-Cardiff and Birmingham-Nottingham service, while possibly allowing the Nottingham - Cardiff service to make additional calls at Worcester, Lydney and Caldicot.

Lincoln - Liverpool (TPE)

A second TPE service through the Hope Valley line, giving Lincoln direct connections to Manchester & Liverpool as well as a fast Sheffield service.

Calling:

Gainsborough Lea Road, Retford LL, Worksop, Sheffield, Stockport, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, Irlam, Birchwood, Warrington Central, Widnes, Liverpool South Parkway

Would up Sheffield - Manchester to 3tph, as well as proving a fast Lincoln - Sheffield service. Also a continued regular fast service via Warrington Central following diversion of TP North services.

 

[bradders1983]

You have to take into account the Sleaford-Spalding section currently only being a part time rail line.

 

[TheWalrus]

I think all your ideas have been posted on this forum before by me!

 

[G0ORC]

Currently Lincoln gets a pretty shoddy service for a city of nearly 100,000 people, and the main centre of all of Lincolnshire.

Despite this, there's got to be some way of improving services to Lincoln. A few thoughts below:

Lincoln - London via GNGEJ

Extend the current fast FCC service (Stevenage, St Neots, Huntingdon) to Lincoln with calls at Spalding, a new Boston Parkway and Sleaford. Would have journey times of approx. 2 hours. (Yes, would require wiring, but there's support from freight operators to do that plus line speed upgrades anyway).

Lincoln - Swansea (XC)

Add a second hourly XC service on the Nottingham - Cardiff corridor, with a southwestern extension through to Swansea.

Calling:

Newark Castle, Nottingham, Derby, Burton on Trent, Tamworth, New Street, University, Cheltenham, Gloucester, Chepstow, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath

This would have the benefit of allowing a second Birmingham-Cardiff and Birmingham-Nottingham service, while possibly allowing the Nottingham - Cardiff service to make additional calls at Worcester, Lydney and Caldicot.

Lincoln - Liverpool (TPE)

A second TPE service through the Hope Valley line, giving Lincoln direct connections to Manchester & Liverpool as well as a fast Sheffield service.

Calling:

Gainsborough Lea Road, Retford LL, Worksop, Sheffield, Stockport, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, Irlam, Birchwood, Warrington Central, Widnes, Liverpool South Parkway

Would up Sheffield - Manchester to 3tph, as well as proving a fast Lincoln - Sheffield service. Also a continued regular fast service via Warrington Central following diversion of TP North services.

.... and the stock to do all of this, even if there was a business case, will come from where, exactly?

I'm at Lincoln quite often (several times a month) and during the day the trains I travel on (to Nottingham, Grimsby, Gainsborough and Skegness via Sleaford are very lonely places indeed. It would take some marketing genius to wake up the good people of Lincolnshire and get them out of their cars.

Not a chance of it happening!

 

[Western Lord]

Currently Lincoln gets a pretty shoddy service for a city of nearly 100,000 people, and the main centre of all of Lincolnshire.

Despite this, there's got to be some way of improving services to Lincoln. A few thoughts below:

Lincoln - London via GNGEJ

Extend the current fast FCC service (Stevenage, St Neots, Huntingdon) to Lincoln with calls at Spalding, a new Boston Parkway and Sleaford. Would have journey times of approx. 2 hours. (Yes, would require wiring, but there's support from freight operators to do that plus line speed upgrades anyway).

Lincoln - Swansea (XC)

Add a second hourly XC service on the Nottingham - Cardiff corridor, with a southwestern extension through to Swansea.

Calling:

Newark Castle, Nottingham, Derby, Burton on Trent, Tamworth, New Street, University, Cheltenham, Gloucester, Chepstow, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath

This would have the benefit of allowing a second Birmingham-Cardiff and Birmingham-Nottingham service, while possibly allowing the Nottingham - Cardiff service to make additional calls at Worcester, Lydney and Caldicot.

Lincoln - Liverpool (TPE)

A second TPE service through the Hope Valley line, giving Lincoln direct connections to Manchester & Liverpool as well as a fast Sheffield service.

Calling:

Gainsborough Lea Road, Retford LL, Worksop, Sheffield, Stockport, Manchester Piccadilly, Manchester Oxford Road, Irlam, Birchwood, Warrington Central, Widnes, Liverpool South Parkway

Would up Sheffield - Manchester to 3tph, as well as proving a fast Lincoln - Sheffield service. Also a continued regular fast service via Warrington Central following diversion of TP North services.

And where exactly might "Boston Parkway" be? As for the rest, no trains available, pathing problems and lack of demand. Dream on.

 

[bradders1983]

Lol just spotted the "Boston Parkway" thing. That needs a hell of a lot more explaining, the only place that station could really go is in the village of Donington, over 10 miles by road from Boston!

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/B...06d541f1a0910c!2m2!1d-0.026577!2d52.97894!1m0

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I personally think Lincoln would benefit more from gaining a clockface service from all directions before more complex services are introduced. Currently only the Sheffield service has a memorable timetable.

 

[Searle]

I do wonder if you live near or regularly use Lincoln services? I've been using them semi regularly and most, apart from peak time services, are near empty. I'm sure it would be nice for the residents of Lincoln to have, but they wouldn't be of that much use really

 

[Waverley125]

The reason patronage is so terrible is because the service is so awful. Having cut the vast majority of rail lines in the country and made having a car a necessity for living there, you really can't be surprised when a slow and uncomfortable train doesn't get people out of their cars.

For instance, even the slow train to Doncaster and a connection is still competitive with the car for getting to Leeds on journey time. But frequency is so terrible, the Lincoln - Doncaster train so scrap and publicised so little that anyone wanting to make the trip will get in their car without a second thought.

As for 'their aren't any trains' - true. There should be some new DMUs built. Lincolnshire won't be seeing wires for a good while yet, so investment with guaranteed allocation to EMT should obviate that problem.

As for releasing more, get wiring in Scotland & on the Chiltern line to free up some of their shiny new DMUs.

 

[Yew]

I personally think Lincoln would benefit more from gaining a clockface service from all directions before more complex services are introduced. Currently only the Sheffield service has a memorable timetable.

The nottingham/Leicester service is generally sort of around 20 past the hour.

Personally I'd just settle for no pacers. Especially on platform 5.

 

[philjo]

Perhaps Lincoln could link in with one of the new East-West rail services.

Lincoln-Nottingham-Leicester-Bedford-Bletchley-Oxford-somewhere (either Bristol via Swindon & Bath or to the South coast via Reading ?)

 

[gordonthemoron]

or ....Bletchley-Aylesbury-Marylebone?

 

[class26]

Lol just spotted the "Boston Parkway" thing. That needs a hell of a lot more explaining, the only place that station could really go is in the village of Donington, over 10 miles by road from Boston!

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/B...06d541f1a0910c!2m2!1d-0.026577!2d52.97894!1m0

Boston Parkway in Donington was actually suggested by Hull Trains a few years ago when they were considering a London service via the joint line. This was to have started in Grimsby. They didn`t go ahead with it due to imminent work on the joint line and all the disruption that would have caused. The good folk of Lincs live in hope.

About the general level of services from Lincoln yes, they are all so crap that most fok will stay in their cars. Regular interval services with decent stock are required before people will leave their cars at home. It ought to be possible to extend perhaps the first couple of XC trains from Notts to Cardiff back to start in Lincoln in the same way that one Notts to St Pancras starts in Lincoln. The same in the evening. That way at least there is the possibility of a day in B`ham

It is a myth that most are moving fresh air. I live in Lincs and use local services as much as possible and am a member of the local rails users group.
Currently there is a big campaign from Market Rasen for better services as the 153 frequently leaves people on the platform. Precious little "fresh air" on those services. These people will only travel if they can have a larger train that they can actually get on, then they will leave their cars at home. The service must be there first though.

Only on Monday I travelled from my home village of Heckington to Boston on a midday service and couldn`t get a seat !

 

[Waverley125]

Boston Parkway in Donington was actually suggested by Hull Trains a few years ago when they were considering a London service via the joint line. This was to have started in Grimsby. They didn't go ahead with it due to imminent work on the joint line and all the disruption that would have caused. The good folk of Lincs live in hope.

About the general level of services from Lincoln yes, they are all so crap that most fok will stay in their cars. Regular interval services with decent stock are required before people will leave their cars at home. It ought to be possible to extend perhaps the first couple of XC trains from Notts to Cardiff back to start in Lincoln in the same way that one Notts to St Pancras starts in Lincoln. The same in the evening. That way at least there is the possibility of a day in B'ham

It is a myth that most are moving fresh air. I live in Lincs and use local services as much as possible and am a member of the local rails users group.
Currently there is a big campaign from Market Rasen for better services as the 153 frequently leaves people on the platform. Precious little "fresh air" on those services. These people will only travel if they can have a larger train that they can actually get on, then they will leave their cars at home. The service must be there first though.

Only on Monday I travelled from my home village of Heckington to Boston on a midday service and couldn't get a seat !

This, precisely.

Lincoln should have direct rail services to Leeds, Grimsby, Louth, Skegness, Boston, Peterborough, London, Grantham, Nottingham and Sheffield as a minimum. There's a huge amount of work needs doing on the Lincolnshire network as a whole to make it fit for purpose.

 

[TheWalrus]

Taking parts of the ideas posted in the OP, surely some of it would be realistic. I think Cardiff-Nottingham could be extended to Lincoln, introduce a two-hourly London service via Sleaford absorbing the current Peterborough-Lincoln, and possibly revising the Sheffield-Manchester and Lincoln-Sheffield services providing an improved through service.

 

[IanXC]

Something I've pondered is a service from Lincoln to York. Potentially very attractive to tourists!

I'd propose:

Lincoln
Saxilby (?)
Gainsborough Lea Road
Doncaster
Selby
Sherburn in Elmet
York

I'd look to have a broadly 2 hourly frequency, forming an hourly service between Doncaster and Selby alongside Hull Trains. Picking up the Sherburn calls would also resolve the issue of what to do with Hull to York services if Sherburn is not electrified.

 

[Gathursty]

I think Louth needs to be reconnected to somewhere, whether it's Boston or Lincoln directly. A clockface timetable is always a good thing to have, or as near to that as possible. You can't really reinstate the coastline route to Grimsby as the north bit has been built on. Shame as it makes the remaining line to Skegness look as ridiculous as the squiggly A52 between Boston, Skegness and Mablethorpe.

 

[Grimsby town]

I think the Grimsby to Lincoln line really needs developing and I think with the right attitude it can be the main line out of Grimsby once more. I know that at the moment with rolling stock shortages improvement are hard to come by so in the short term (under this franchise) I would only hope that the peak services could be two car.

At the start of the next East Midlands franchise I think these improvements should be looked at:
•2 car trains running a clockface 1tp2h service
•extension of the service to Cleethorpes
•Introduction of cheap advanced tickets
•Increase the car park facilities at Market Rasen as it acts as a railhead for towns like Louth and Mablethorpe.
•Good connections at Newark
The last two will help take the strain of parking at Newark

In the early 2020's I'd look to:
•Increase the frequency to 1tph
•Introduce direct services to London, Nottingham and Birmingham
•Create a station at Cherry Willingam
•Incrase Line Speeds to 90/100mph
•If demand is there introduce a 1tp2h stopping service from Grimsby to Lincoln calling at Great Coates, Healing, Stallingbrough, Habrough, Barnetby, Market Rasen, Cherry Willingham and Lincoln to complement the fast service.

 

[Class 170101]

Lincoln - Swansea (XC)

Add a second hourly XC service on the Nottingham - Cardiff corridor, with a southwestern extension through to Swansea.

Calling:

Newark Castle, Nottingham, Derby, Burton on Trent, Tamworth, New Street, University, Cheltenham, Gloucester, Chepstow, Newport, Cardiff Central, Bridgend, Port Talbot Parkway, Neath

This would have the benefit of allowing a second Birmingham-Cardiff and Birmingham-Nottingham service, while possibly allowing the Nottingham - Cardiff service to make additional calls at Worcester, Lydney and Caldicot.

There are already two services per hour between Birmingham and Nottingham. Leaving aside the lack of Rolling Stock that there currently is, would you be proposing adding a third service per hour between Nottingham and Birmingham, or would you extend the current Nottingham to Birmingham service to Lincoln in the east, and to Cardiff / Swansea via Worcester and Glocester in the west?

 

[class26]

I think Louth needs to be reconnected to somewhere, whether it's Boston or Lincoln directly. A clockface timetable is always a good thing to have, or as near to that as possible. You can't really reinstate the coastline route to Grimsby as the north bit has been built on. Shame as it makes the remaining line to Skegness look as ridiculous as the squiggly A52 between Boston, Skegness and Mablethorpe.

I would agree that Louth ought to be reconnected to the national network but not to Boston. That is unless Boston is re connected directly south. Most Bostonians use Peterborough as their railhead as it is a real dogleg of a journey via Grantham to London (or Stansted , Cambridge etc). A dogleg that is slow and then once in Grantham the connections are fairly poor. Not a great incentive to use the local line. On average it takes 2 hours from Boston to Peterborough by rail (just over 30 miles).

So ideally the entire line from Grimsby to Spalding ought to be re instated but it isn`t going to happen. So how to re connect Louth ? going north to Grimsby first is the wrong way, just as from Boston to London going to Grantham first is largely the wrong way but with only one line how else is this done ?

Much is written in these forums about business cases but i think that is wrong and actual no lesser person than the transport secretary indicated as much today when saying that the benefit / cost ratio of the Jubilee line was less than 1% but without it Canary Wharf would not have happened.

I think that this country is now so populated that it would, within reason build a new line to nowhere but in time new developments would be attracted to it. Put in the service and the business will follow. if you wait for the business first you are always playing catch up. Thats the problem with transport in this country, be it rail, roads or air. In that light reinstate Grimsby to Spalding and I think that it would work in time. Its all chicken and egg afterall.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You have to take into account the Sleaford-Spalding section currently only being a part time rail line.

Yes, but all that money hasn`t been spent on the line for one shift opening.

 

[Tomnick]

Is a BCR of 1% equal to a BCR of 0.01? Maybe there is hope for Skipton - Colne after all then!