National Express East coast to be nationalised

[The Planner]

As a couple have already said, I bet DBS are rubbing their hands already with an open cheque book.

 

[Metroland]

Well John Prescott approves!

[youtube]YjE8MjVjEkk[/youtube]

 

[F Great Eastern]

Hull Trains plight really is sad to see though, these 180s really are a disgrace. Surely Alstom should be over here trying to sort them out, and if not pay the appropriate compensation to whoever purchased them?

 

[anthony263]

Hull Trains plight really is sad to see though, these 180s really are a disgrace. Surely Alstom should be over here trying to sort them out, and if not pay the appropriate compensation to whoever purchased them?

Alstom should take most of the class 180's out of service strip them down and rebuild them possible with new electrics

 

[Tom B]

I previously defended GNER - they were a relatively good company until their second franchise began. However, NXEC took a struggling service and made it even worse.

When I heard about FirstBus wanting to take the franchise over, I was slightly worried - however, their hallmarks - poor service, high price, lack of maintenance and the "don't-give-a-toss" attitude already occur with NXEC.

 

[boing_uk]

Alstom should take most of the class 180's out of service strip them down and rebuild them possible with new electrics

Have Northern had the same problem with their 180's?

In fact, everyone has said about the other operators... what about Serco/NED for ECML?

 

[blacknight]

Well John Prescott approves!

[youtube]YjE8MjVjEkk[/youtube]

Think JP just given the public owned company set up to run ECML route its new name "Nationalised Express" now arriving due to the cancellation of National Express by Lord Adonis. Love it

 

[F Great Eastern]

I previously defended GNER - they were a relatively good company until their second franchise began. However, NXEC took a struggling service and made it even worse.

When I heard about FirstBus wanting to take the franchise over, I was slightly worried - however, their hallmarks - poor service, high price, lack of maintenance and the "don't-give-a-toss" attitude already occur with NXEC.

To even compare FirstGroup with National Express is ridicolous. Say whatever you want about their bus services, but when it comes to Train services First are a clear winner on a number of fronts, when it comes to investment, National Express are right at the back

National Express:
East Anglia - Cheap horrible crap refurbished MK3s, 10k spent on each 156, timetable nobody likes through Ipswich, cutting of passenger facilities, general cost cutting everywhere.
East Coast - Need I go on?
C2C - Relatively easy franchise, when they came in Prism had already bought it new rolling stock.

First:
Hull Trains - Invested in 170s and later 222s. Having trouble now admittley
Scotrail - Train Operator of the year and record high performance
Transpennine Express - Huge growth, investment in a whole new fleet of trains. Capacity issues caused by DFT incompetence
FCC - Inherited an awful mess from it's predecessors, and is turning things around and doing all it can to obtain new rolling stock, and from other operators despite the lack of it around.
First Great Western - Invested more than anyone in refurbishing their stock, and makes the likes of National Express look like a laughing stock.

As for lack of maintinance, I strongly suggest you look at the miles per casualty towards the end of the FGE franchise, and the much lower figures that were presented by National Express East Anglia, and the state the interiors have been allowed to get in since the change of franchise.

I've said it before and said it again. National Express is by far the worst company to be involved in privatisation of British Rail. They are an invest nothing and take everything company, they have a history of spending very little and taking a lot. The only people who are worse are connex.

 

[anthony263]

Just watching Lord adonis make a statement on this in the house of lords on BBC news.

Aparantly former MD of first capital connect, elaine holt ( Cant remeber how to spell her name) has been brought in to help run the new publicly owned company.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Thats good if she has when it goes ahead. Elaine is a very approachable MD who has only been to happy to help when I've enountered her.

 

[WillPS]

I've been watching all this business with the East Coast with interest. Apart from one very brief journey with GNER between Peterborough and Grantham in 2007 (when Central Trains had messed up rail replacement buses between Norwich and Nottingham), I had never actually used the East Coast mainline. On Monday I set that record straight and took a journey from Doncaster to Kings Cross on what was a lovely refurbished Mk. 4 coach.

The journey was lovely, and I can't complain about any element of the service.

On the way back, I had a completely different experience. This time I was on the HST 2033 service to Leeds, which followed the inevitably cancelled Hull Trains service. What should have been a light service, running to time was instead completely full and severely delayed leaving most stations. It didn't help that it was a swelteringly hot day, and the Mk.3 coach I was in didn't have functional vestibule doors - so the air conditioning (which isn't fantastic in Mk.3s anyway) was pretty ineffective. This was made worse by the fact that the buffet car had not been properly stocked up, and had no ice for drinks.

However.

People seem to be casting National Express off as a rubbish rail operator - and I don't think that could be further from the truth speaking historically. I've yet to read an ill word of Midland Mainline, for example, who excelled in customer service, punctuality and reliability continually. Central Trains may not have been popular, and like Northern had their problems at the beginning but by the end provided a pretty decent service, certainly better on the side now run by Stagecoach/East Midlands Trains.

 

[Failed Unit]

Forgive me if I have missed something but right now unfortunately the service is still been ran by national express and will remain so until they either formally hand in the keys or default. ie the worse of both worlds if we are just delaying the enevitable.

If national express are going to go, they need to be out sooner rather than later to limit the damage they do until the eventaully go. The longer they exist the worse mess the taxpayer and next operator have to clean up.

 

[me123]

When I heard about FirstBus wanting to take the franchise over, I was slightly worried - however, their hallmarks - poor service, high price, lack of maintenance and the "don't-give-a-toss" attitude already occur with NXEC.

FirstBus wouldn't take over the franchise, FirstGroup would. It's a rail company as well as a bus company.

As for their "hallmarks", one needs only look at Scotrail and Transpennine Express to see that they can and do do a good job. Reliability has improved in both franchises. Class 170s have Haymarket Depot, and Class 185s also have a similarly important maintenance depot which keeps the fleet in top shape. Far from perfect, but they're always going in the right direction.

Even the lamentable Great Western Franchise has seen huge improvements in recent years. Of course, there's no denying that First brought them down, but they don't seem to be doing a bad job bringing them back up again.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Now National Express know they are going to lose the franchise, like has happened in the past when people have had pre-notice of losing their franchise, I expect them to cut back as much spending as they possibly can in all but the most essential areas, cut down on maintinance work etc, and leave it as mess for the next operator to clear up.

 

[Failed Unit]

I've been watching all this business with the East Coast with interest. Apart from one very brief journey with GNER between Peterborough and Grantham in 2007 (when Central Trains had messed up rail replacement buses between Norwich and Nottingham), I had never actually used the East Coast mainline. On Monday I set that record straight and took a journey from Doncaster to Kings Cross on what was a lovely refurbished Mk. 4 coach.

refurbished by GNER

This was made worse by the fact that the buffet car had not been properly stocked up, and had no ice for drinks.

unfortunately fairly standard for the route now, a lot of people I know make sure they buy at the station to make sure they have something

However.

People seem to be casting National Express off as a rubbish rail operator - and I don't think that could be further from the truth speaking historically. I've yet to read an ill word of Midland Mainline, for example, who excelled in customer service, punctuality and reliability continually. Central Trains may not have been popular, and like Northern had their problems at the beginning but by the end provided a pretty decent service, certainly better on the side now run by Stagecoach/East Midlands Trains.

Sorry I can't agree with that statement, EMT are doing a lot better with worse rolling stock than CT had. It isn't EMT's fault they don't have enough 158's as CT provided DfT with out of date figures, we are still suffering from national express' incompetance. CT were only interested in Birmingham, EMT are a breath of fresh air by comparson, in Lincolnshire at least!

 

[scandal]

.People seem to be casting National Express off as a rubbish rail operator - and I don't think that could be further from the truth speaking historically. I've yet to read an ill word of Midland Mainline, for example, who excelled in customer service, punctuality and reliability continually.

Midland Mainline was a very very small franchise, in terms of as small as c2c, with the core route from London to Sheffield, and the spur from Trent to Nottingham it was never going to be a particularly challenging franchise. Considering the route was an InterCity one its no suprise that customer service was good, possibly down to over staffing and the lengthy turnarounds afforded at terminal stations. Punctuality was not at all hard to achieve on the self contained franchise when journey times were padded increasing from about 1hr 36 in BR days from St Pancras to Nottingham to about 1hr 46 now....although I read at last Nottingham City Council are trying to get this down to 90 minutes. We also saw EMT cut times from London to Sheffield when they took over replacing the HSTs and ripping out the padding of MML.

Central Trains may not have been popular, and like Northern had their problems at the beginning but by the end provided a pretty decent service, certainly better on the side now run by Stagecoach/East Midlands Trains.

I do agree here, I think they had a poor start possibly down to management, but certainly post 2004 the franchise was operating a lot better. It seems to have been forgottton that Central invested in 30 or so Turbostars for the routes and benefitted enormously from cross diagraming across the EM and WMs. Which is probably why EMT is struggling with half the stock lost to Tysley...

I'd argue the problems for NatEx began with the start of the bus image rebranding all stock into the dull grey and white liveries found usually on the low priced coaches. It does strike me as questionable why, despite questions of the economy in 2007, that NXEC bid an extra £100m then the previous failed GNER attempt in the "boom times" of the economy and was accepted. Were lessons not learnt?

 

[Bittern]

I'm not prepared to get into the "East Coast Quality" argument yet again because I don't believe that it has any particular bearing on the matter. Besides, everyone hates their local operator and believes they could do better if only they had the chance.

Speak for yourself. I love my local operator.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Speak for yourself. I love my local operator.

I used to love my local operator back in 2004 before National Express got the franchise too.....Moved out a few years ago, and when I go back it just reminds me of how bad things have got and how they used to be before National Express.

 

[krus_aragon]

Speak for yourself. I love my local operator.

And I'm largely happy with mine, too.

 

[gordonthemoron]

mine's great

 

[Failed Unit]

And I'm largely happy with mine, too.

No complaints about EMT either, much better than CT!

 

[Metroland]

Never had a problem with mine either.

 

[delt1c]

when PRISM operated our franchise they were innovative. The 317/6 returns were advanced for the time. Since Nat Ex we have seen nothing more than re Vynal and new seat covers. The 317's now being little better than pre return in the passenger saloon. Nat Ex has not done itself any favours in the customer relation department.

 

[F Great Eastern]

when PRISM operated our franchise they were innovative. The 317/6 returns were advanced for the time. Since Nat Ex we have seen nothing more than re Vynal and new seat covers. The 317's now being little better than pre return in the passenger saloon. Nat Ex has not done itself any favours in the customer relation department.

Same in East Anglia, they spent 11k each on the class 156s when other operators have spent 10x that, they only really changed the seat covers carpets and materials to be in NatEx colours more than anything else.

MK3's they just changed the colour of the wall rag, seat rag, and put a rag on the overhead luggage storage and thats really it to be honest. No power sockets or anything remotely useful.

As stated before, no investment.

 

[87015]

Same in East Anglia, they spent 11k each on the class 156s when other operators have spent 10x that, they only really changed the seat covers carpets and materials to be in NatEx colours more than anything else.

MK3's they just changed the colour of the wall rag, seat rag, and put a rag on the overhead luggage storage and thats really it to be honest. No power sockets or anything remotely useful.

As stated before, no investment.

Yes, we get the idea, how many I don't like NXEA rants do you have to have today?

 

[WillPS]

Sorry I can't agree with that statement, EMT are doing a lot better with worse rolling stock than CT had. It isn't EMT's fault they don't have enough 158's as CT provided DfT with out of date figures, we are still suffering from national express' incompetance. CT were only interested in Birmingham, EMT are a breath of fresh air by comparson, in Lincolnshire at least!

No complaints about EMT either, much better than CT!

Seriously, have you tried to use Derby-Crewe or Liverpool-Norwich - both now formed one coach less than typically formed under CT (2 for Crewe, 3 for Norwich). Even then, CT would often run Turbostars to Crewe and even more often to Liverpool - the shabby Sprinters the services now run are something of a step back in terms of passenger comfort!

I understand that there was poor information exchanged which lead to these circumstances, but surely as a prospective operator you would independently assess the requirements before bidding. I'm also inclined to believe that EMT/Stagecoach's PR machine functions by blaming everybody and accepting no responsibility for key customer issues. When they took over they removed free Tea and Coffee from London services - that was MML's plan supposedly, shortforming units is CT's fault and the driver issues are the driver's fault!

I do agree here, I think they had a poor start possibly down to management, but certainly post 2004 the franchise was operating a lot better. It seems to have been forgottton that Central invested in 30 or so Turbostars for the routes and benefitted enormously from cross diagraming across the EM and WMs. Which is probably why EMT is struggling with half the stock lost to Tysley...

The Turbostars were a huge bonus for the region, especially after the MML ones moved over. In the East Midlands, Turbostars represented the positive side of privatisation; shiny new comfortable stock in a refreshing colour scheme. It seems a step back to accept ugly, uncomfortable Sprinters back as the norm.

Similarly, the Central Citylink brand meant the long distance services were treated as premier routes, whereas now they're low priority links with London Midland, CrossCountry and East Midlands Trains.

I'm not against East Midlands Trains, I must add. I understand that they're in the situation now and they're doing the best they can - and I commend them for it. I'm just saying that as a passenger, we saw new trains and increased passenger comfort with Midland Mainline and Central Trains, and with East Midlands Trains we've had to accept a step back and relative stagnation.

 

[F Great Eastern]

We were talking about refurbishments so I thought I would add my two cents?

 

[Teaboy1]

So where to now..........??
I'm not a railman so I don't know the intricacies of operating railways and making a profit. I can only liken the situation to the way buses were franchised a few years ago in South Yorkshire, allowing owner / operators to run clapped out knackered old buses on services that were poorly populated due to passengers avoiding using clapped out knackered old buses. Guess what....they still seem to be around even today!
So what exactly happens now.........?? Do NXEC simply walk away like the US management did at Drax Power when AES walked away? I dont have a clue what the answer is but the private sector wont spend on new stock, so who will? I simply fail to see what privatisation has done except make some very fat cats even fatter!
I agree with a previous post now, privatisation with a system to plough profits back into the business a la Network Rail.:cry:

 

[WillPS]

So where to now..........??
I'm not a railman so I don't know the intricacies of operating railways and making a profit. I can only liken the situation to the way buses were franchised a few years ago in South Yorkshire, allowing owner / operators to run clapped out knackered old buses on services that were poorly populated due to passengers avoiding using clapped out knackered old buses. Guess what....they still seem to be around even today!
So what exactly happens now.........?? Do NXEC simply walk away like the US management did at Drax Power when AES walked away? I dont have a clue what the answer is but the private sector wont spend on new stock, so who will? I simply fail to see what privatisation has done except make some very fat cats even fatter!
I agree with a previous post now, privatisation with a system to plough profits back into the business a la Network Rail.:cry:

NXEC's stock is pretty blummin good - okay the HSTs have basically had it, but in terms of passenger comfort, I can't knock them. GNER are to thank, of course.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I think the trouble with a public train system is it can be somewhat self serving, and the problems can be that why should the public sector drive to improve something when there is no incentive at the end of the day, and with no competition it exagerates that further. With private companies if they run a more efficent service more people use it = more profit, and thats how the better franchises run.

However you always have the worst ones like National Express who look at it different, and try and gain as much profit for as minimum outlay, instead of investing money to make their customers happier and to use the service more, they think of ways to extract additional money out of the customers that they know will always use them. It's the wrong way but unfortunately some companies are like this.

I was recently out in Cork for a few days in Ireland, and on their main station I went out to the platform with no benches, next to no customer information apart from a tiny LED display saying when the train is for with no stopping information, when you walk out onto the platform, and to top it all off there was a sign in the station saying "Welcome to Limerick" which really annoyed me.

The train driver was driving the train from Cork to Cobh, and I couldn't believe the fact that whilst he was driving his train he invited a kid into his cab and left the cab door open for the entire journey until I got off at least, how the hell that is acceptable god only knows but it really made me realise how there is no chance that this would happen in the UK.

I then went out to a few stops later, and I arrived at a train station, if you can call it that, with no timetable information, no information at all, no customer display, no announcements. You'd never know it was a train station if it was not for the footbridge etc, and I don't think anyone can argue British Rail used to be like this in a number of locations, privatisation has brought in much more information systems and customer information.