Network Rail lose knotweed case.

[2HAP]

Network Rail has lost a case where Japanese Knotweed on its property has affected the sale of a house adjoining. The homeowner sued for compensation and won.

A homeowner whose bungalow is towered over by Japanese knotweed on a railway line has won a four-year legal fight for compensation by Network Rail.

Robin Waistell claimed he was unable to sell because the rail body had ignored requests to tackle the invasive weed on the bank behind his home in Maesteg.

The case was seen as a likely test for homeowners whose property is blighted by knotweed on railway embankments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-38867039

 

[al78]

Did Network Rail have any good reason to ignore the knotweed problem? If not, then it seems the moral of the story is that denying or ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away, and may make it worse, so best to get it sorted sooner rather than later.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Ah, Japanese knotweed. Thanks v much pioneering Victorian horticulturalists!

 

[Trog]

Presumably the householder could get done if the knotweed is coming the other way.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Allowing knotweed to spread onto someone else's land is an offence.
Knotweed spreads very prolifically.
Ignoring it is extremely short-sighted. It won't die out on its own so delaying dealing with it just leads to a greater (read more expensive) problem down the line.

To misquote "if I've sprayed it once I've sprayed it a thousand times".

 

[Bungle965]

Allowing knotweed to spread onto someone else's land is an offence.
Knotweed spreads very prolifically.
Ignoring it is extremely short-sighted. It won't die out on its own so delaying dealing with it just leads to a greater (read more expensive) problem down the line.

To misquote "if I've sprayed it once I've sprayed it a thousand times".

You literally have to burn it to make sure that it does not come back, if I am right in thinking.
Sam

 

[furnessvale]

Giant Hogweed and Himalayan Balsam are two more imported "thugs" that can be added to the list.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

You literally have to burn it to make sure that it does not come back, if I am right in thinking.
Sam

There is a code of practice (the knotweed code of practice) produced by The Environment Agency and bearing the Network Rail logo....

I've tried to upload it but it is too large for the site.

Herbicide is the best treatment in a case such as this as time is not of the essence. Burning it involves cutting it and transporting it. A small piece, the size of your thumbnail, is enough to allow a new plant to establish itself.

Now, if Network Rail had done the decent thing four years ago, when the neighbour first complained, the site would probably now be certified clear. Hey ho.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Giant Hogweed and Himalayan Balsam are two more imported "thugs" that can be added to the list.

And Rhododendron. Oh aren't the flowers of all these plants sooooo pretty!

 

[3141]

delaying dealing with it just leads to a greater (read more expensive) problem down the line.

Down the embankment, actually.

 

[HowardGWR]

You literally have to burn it to make sure that it does not come back, if I am right in thinking.
Sam

No you aren't I am afraid. Japanese knotweed is a plant that has evolved to withstand fire from volcanoes. That is why the roots go deep, so that it can recover after the event and it is also able to push through solid lava (or your concrete floor).

Did anyone mention buddleia?

 

[Bungle965]

No you aren't I am afraid. Japanese knotweed is a plant that has evolved to withstand fire from volcanoes. That is why the roots go deep, so that it can recover after the event and it is also able to push through solid lava (or your concrete floor).

Did anyone mention buddleia?

Ah okay. I seem to remember somewhere that you should dig up as much as possible and then burn it once it has dried out.
Sam

 

[headshot119]

No you aren't I am afraid. Japanese knotweed is a plant that has evolved to withstand fire from volcanoes. That is why the roots go deep, so that it can recover after the event and it is also able to push through solid lava (or your concrete floor).

Did anyone mention buddleia?

Royal Horticultural Society certainly advise you to burn it once its been cut and removed.

https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=218

Non-chemical controls
When tackling Japanese knotweed, cultural control methods pose some problems;

Digging out is possible, but due to the depth that the rhizomes can penetrate, regrowth usually occurs. This method also creates problems over disposal as Japanese knotweed is classed as 'controlled waste' under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. This requires disposal at licensed landfill sites. Specialist Japanese knotweed contractors are usually licensed to safely remove the weed from site but check first before employing their services. Alternatively, it can be destroyed on site by allowing it to dry out before burning. On no account should Japanese knotweed be included with normal household waste or put out in green waste collection schemes

If digging out is attempted, remove as much root as possible, then repeatedly destroy regrowth. In this way the energy reserves in the remaining underground parts will be gradually exhausted; a process which may, however, take several seasons

 

[Trog]

I reported a patch of knotweed once, impressively rapid response it was flail mown the very next week. :cry:

As for buddleia there is a poster up at my local station crowing about how the local TOC and council have co-operated with a tree hugging charity to plant it on the platform. :cry::cry:

 

[PHILIPE]

The local ganger wouldn't have allowed it to happen in the old days when linesides were kept immaculate

 

[thejuggler]

Mixed response from NR when I have raised it as a problem.

In one case they were out within a week and treat it. In another I raised it outside of growing season to get it in early. Nothing was done and it went mad last year. I'll be reporting again in a couple of months.

The problem with NR is they have thousands of square metres of the stuff to try and control, so it's always a battle they will lose, but the highlighted case means they can't ignore it forever it is causing harm.

The best way to deal is to spray 3-4 times over late summer, leave it until about this time of year, chop off the dead tops and burn them. Look for regrowth in April, leave to grow and repeat treatment.

Lots of expensive cowboys out there who will fleece the unwary and any insurance against regrowth isn't worth the paper its written on. A company I know were quoted £12,000 for a 5 year treatement plan. I contacted my approved contractor, first treatment was £700 and subsequent visits will be about £200.

 

[TBirdFrank]

For once I am right behind Network Rail.

Along their thousands of miles of route there must be many thousands of locations where JK is rife. Hitherto it has been a criminal offence to permit JK to become established, but not to simply permit existing plants to remain.

Now that civil liability for JK being on site has been established NR have a perfect storm of cost or litigation to face.

The cure is remarkably simple - now - but is about to become illegal as the certain killer glyphosate is about to become illegal.

To kill JK - and I have done it on my own private property the method is :-

Hit it with a herbicide to kill off plant material above ground. This can then be burnt off in situ with a flame gun. Then a systemic can be injected into the mouth of the rhyzome that is readily viewable. After about three treatments your JK will be dead as dead can be.

But - to do this on other than your own property without a paper qualification is illegal - hence the cowboy tendency!

As for digging and flailing - don't do it - a speck of this plant can regenerate. Burning and spraying is the one and only sure way!

NR are going to have one hell of an unbudgeted problem!

 

[dubscottie]

But - to do this on other than your own property without a paper qualification is illegal - hence the cowboy tendency!

I have the PA certs and am not a cowboy..

I am sure NR have trained staff that could deal with this in house before it becomes an issue to neighbouring land.

NR staff that are trained could spray etc on private property without issue as long as they have permission and liability insurance etc.

 

[theageofthetra]

For once I am right behind Network Rail.

Along their thousands of miles of route there must be many thousands of locations where JK is rife. Hitherto it has been a criminal offence to permit JK to become established, but not to simply permit existing plants to remain.

Now that civil liability for JK being on site has been established NR have a perfect storm of cost or litigation to face.

The cure is remarkably simple - now - but is about to become illegal as the certain killer glyphosate is about to become illegal.

To kill JK - and I have done it on my own private property the method is :-

Hit it with a herbicide to kill off plant material above ground. This can then be burnt off in situ with a flame gun. Then a systemic can be injected into the mouth of the rhyzome that is readily viewable. After about three treatments your JK will be dead as dead can be.

But - to do this on other than your own property without a paper qualification is illegal - hence the cowboy tendency!

As for digging and flailing - don't do it - a speck of this plant can regenerate. Burning and spraying is the one and only sure way!

NR are going to have one hell of an unbudgeted problem!

Who has banned the only effective treatment?

 

[eastdyke]

For once I am right behind Network Rail.

Along their thousands of miles of route there must be many thousands of locations where JK is rife. Hitherto it has been a criminal offence to permit JK to become established, but not to simply permit existing plants to remain.

Now that civil liability for JK being on site has been established NR have a perfect storm of cost or litigation to face.

The cure is remarkably simple - now - but is about to become illegal as the certain killer glyphosate is about to become illegal.

To kill JK - and I have done it on my own private property the method is :-

Hit it with a herbicide to kill off plant material above ground. This can then be burnt off in situ with a flame gun. Then a systemic can be injected into the mouth of the rhyzome that is readily viewable. After about three treatments your JK will be dead as dead can be.

But - to do this on other than your own property without a paper qualification is illegal - hence the cowboy tendency!

As for digging and flailing - don't do it - a speck of this plant can regenerate. Burning and spraying is the one and only sure way!

NR are going to have one hell of an unbudgeted problem!

The piece that I have highlighted is contentious. There are ongoing re-evaluations in various jurisdictions and court proceedings (in California). It is not 'about to become illegal' from anything that I have read although a lot of groups seem to wish that it were.

It may become illegal in the future but the EU extended the licence for a futher 18 months last year.

I totally agree with you that digging and flailing are both a total no no for JK.

 

[HSTEd]

I saw a system that resorted to simply steam lancing the ground at intervals of a couple of feet in a grid. Cooked everything in the first several feet of soil. But that is rather extreme.

 

[Envoy]

I thought that scientists were testing some bug that would destroy the knotweed?

 

[snowball]

I thought that scientists were testing some bug that would destroy the knotweed?

Maybe, but you have to be careful with these things. In similar cases in the past, the bug imported to eat the pest has often turned out to be a worse problem than the original pest. It's a bit like the woman who swallowed the fly.

 

[najaB]

Maybe, but you have to be careful with these things. In similar cases in the past, the bug imported to eat the pest has often turned out to be a worse problem than the original pest.

Three words: Cane toads. Australia.

 

[Zoidberg]

I thought that scientists were testing some bug that would destroy the knotweed?

Mentioned in the linked article is that:

A programme releasing insects brought in from Japan to bring the plant under control is under way in south Wales

There's further information in this BBC News article of 23rd July 2016 (linked to from the article mentioned in post #1)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-36868449

Extract:

The controlled release of insects which feed on Japanese knotweed is being stepped up at locations across south Wales.

Thousands of the bugs were released at six undisclosed sites last month with more over the summer with the aim of establishing a permanent population.

Scientists hope the insects, brought from Japan, will stunt the super weed, allowing native species to flourish.

...

 

[lejog]

Who has banned the only effective treatment?

As eastdyke says no-one has banned glyphosate yet - although the Netherlands banned its sale to the general public. It is also not the only effective treatment, just the most common available to the public.

 

[Kettledrum]

For once I am right behind Network Rail.

Along their thousands of miles of route there must be many thousands of locations where JK is rife. Hitherto it has been a criminal offence to permit JK to become established, but not to simply permit existing plants to remain.

Now that civil liability for JK being on site has been established NR have a perfect storm of cost or litigation to face.............


NR are going to have one hell of an unbudgeted problem!

Both Network Rail and adjoining landowners have to be responsible here. If the JK becomes established, it crosses boundaries very easily and if either party refuses to co-operate (and pay up), then the knotweed will only keep growing and expanding.

If it's a problem in thousands of locations for Network Rail, then they should have clear processes and skilled teams to deal with it - particularly where it affects neighbouring properties.

A regular programme of early intervention with repeat visits and treatments is a must

 

[XDM]

I know this is not a gardening forum,but my experience of knotweed may help members who have the dreaded invader. It dies right down in winter. When the new shoots came up in spring we cut them to the ground every other day & burnt the debris in our wood stove when it was already very hot. We had to do this for three years & on the fourth year the knotweed gave up & has not been back for two more years. So no contractors,no weed killer, just three minutes work every other day. The theory is the leaves & shoots give the root system energy. If you cut sprouts off immediately,the root cannot get energy & will die. Obviously Network Rail haven't the manpower to send people to the site every other day for three years. But the old lengthman system would have seen the gangers on their daily patrol able to cut the knotweed regularly until it gave up.

 

[Class172]

I know this is not a gardening forum,but my experience of knotweed may help members who have the dreaded invader. It dies right down in winter. When the new shoots came up in spring we cut them to the ground every other day & burnt the debris in our wood stove when it was already very hot. We had to do this for three years & on the fourth year the knotweed gave up & has not been back for two more years. So no contractors,no weed killer, just three minutes work every other day. The theory is the leaves & shoots give the root system energy. If you cut sprouts off immediately,the root cannot get energy & will die. Obviously Network Rail haven't the manpower to send people to the site every other day for three years. But the old lengthman system would have seen the gangers on their daily patrol able to cut the knotweed regularly until it gave up.

As you describe, killing knotweed is generally a long-term commitment. Clearly, persistent removal of its shoots over the course of a few years will eventually kill it: if photosynthesis cannot occur then ultimately the plant will run out of energy and give up - I type this looking at a patch of knotweed from my window right now!

 

[DarloRich]

I know this is not a gardening forum,but my experience of knotweed may help members who have the dreaded invader. It dies right down in winter. When the new shoots came up in spring we cut them to the ground every other day & burnt the debris in our wood stove when it was already very hot. We had to do this for three years & on the fourth year the knotweed gave up & has not been back for two more years. So no contractors,no weed killer, just three minutes work every other day. The theory is the leaves & shoots give the root system energy. If you cut sprouts off immediately,the root cannot get energy & will die. Obviously Network Rail haven't the manpower to send people to the site every other day for three years. But the old lengthman system would have seen the gangers on their daily patrol able to cut the knotweed regularly until it gave up.

you are lucky with those results. Without killing the root ball there is no way to be certain that the plant has been killed. It can ( and does) lie dormant for many years.

The issue is many people don't know what they have on their hands before the plant becomes established. In the olden days you dug it out and burnt the rootball. These days you have to cut back, isolate and inject noxious chemicals into the plant. It simply isnt worth trying to dig it all out and pay the disposal costs.