Network Rail staff allegedly smoking at Waterloo after a fire near the track

[farleigh]

I'm sure I heard or read somewhere that smoking is illegal anywhere on railway property but maybe I'm mistaken.

As for people saying this is pathetic, well yes but a passenger is likely to say telling them that they can't smoke at the end of a deserted platform is pathetic so where exactly do they draw the line?

Easy - it is illegal to smoke on a platform.
It is not illegal to smoke on the track.
FWIW I would not object to someone smoking on the end of a deserted platform either.

 

[weastebusdepot]

I believe smoking is still permitted on the non-underground platforms on the Merseyrail network. Always slightly surprising to see if you aren't used to it.

 

[Antman]

Easy - it is illegal to smoke on a platform.
It is not illegal to smoke on the track.
FWIW I would not object to someone smoking on the end of a deserted platform either.

Neither would I and saying something is illegal and stopping it actually happening can be quite different things.

 

[al78]

How about medical doctors who smoke but tell their patients not to...

That's an easy one:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

 

[al78]

Sounds like someone with an axe to grind because they have had to put up with delays/cancellations. Even thinking about it for a second, one could come to the conclusion that they are having a short break and will be back to work soon, like anyone in a job with reasonable conditions does. I would prefer people in safety critical jobs to have occasional breaks rather than try to go at it non-stop and then make a mistake induced by fatigue.

 

[700007]

Please select the formatting which best describes my reaction to this:
How dare they!
How dare they!
How dare they!
HOW DARE THEY!

My effort into doing that was about as useless as those tweets, The Sun and all other right-wing tabloid associated newspapers.

 

[Antman]

Social media cannot be uninvented. Love it or loathe it it's here to stay and it's not really surprising that irate commuters facing a second consecutive day of disruption at Waterloo, albeit for a different reason, are going to be asking questions about the lack of activity. Was there no welfare unit on site where staff could have taken breaks?

 

[Deafdoggie]

I've noticed local bus drivers, even when stationary with engine off, make a point of stepping out of the cab to make a phone call - presumably to avoid ending up on social media

Most people want to move away from their work area when having a break. You are sata in th edriving seat all shift, the last thing you want is to be sat in it any longer.

For other laws e.g. alcohol you would be correct - people have I believe been convicted when they were in the pub with car keys in their pocket.

No, you are allowed to have your car keys in your pocket and your car on the pub car park. You just are not allowed to drive it! Nothing wrong at all with driving there, having a few drinks, going to the car to get a coat (or other item) out of it, and walking home/calling a taxi/having a lift/getting a bus. You just can't drive it. There would be very overcrowded prisons if everyone with car keys in their pocket got arrested.

 

[DarloRich]

No, you are allowed to have your car keys in your pocket and your car on the pub car park. You just are not allowed to drive it! Nothing wrong at all with driving there, having a few drinks, going to the car to get a coat (or other item) out of it, and walking home/calling a taxi/having a lift/getting a bus. You just can't drive it. There would be very overcrowded prisons if everyone with car keys in their pocket got arrested.

this is incorrect. The key question is whether the person is in control of the vehicle and whether there is a realistic possibility of them attempting to drive the vehicle. An individual could be charged with this offence if they have entered a vehicle with the intention of removing belongings or to sleep.

 

[Deafdoggie]

this is incorrect. The key question is whether the person is in control of the vehicle and whether there is a realistic possibility of them attempting to drive the vehicle. An individual could be charged with this offence if they have entered a vehicle with the intention of removing belongings or to sleep.

You would have to prove intent. If you say, "I was getting my coat, I have a taxi booked in 5 minutes" it would be all but impossible to prove you intended to drive home. It is most definitely not an offence to be drinking with car keys in your pocket.

 

[Highlandspring]

What has drink driving to do with railway staff smoking at work?

 

[DarloRich]

You would have to prove intent. If you say, "I was getting my coat, I have a taxi booked in 5 minutes" it would be all but impossible to prove you intended to drive home. It is most definitely not an offence to be drinking with car keys in your pocket.

No one suggests it is illegal to be drinking with car keys in your pocket for goodness sake. What is illegal is possessing intent to drive whilst over the limit. If, as you say, you could prove ( not say: prove because everyone denies intent!) you had a cab booked that would go a long way to proving a lack of intent but even that may not be enough on it's own. The totality of your behaviour that evening would be examined.

I know of 2 people charged with this offence.

What has drink driving to do with railway staff smoking at work?

nothing - but inaccuracies need to be challenged.

 

[CJK64]

Another case of clueless public commenting on subjects they know nothing about.
Who knows why they were sitting there, they would have had a Team Leader or Supervisor there so it was fully justified.
Were they merely having lunch? The same as any other industry.
Were they waiting for a possession or line blockage to be taken?
Were they waiting for the COSS to set up a safe system of work?
There are a number of reasons they could have been sitting down..People really shouldn’t comment if they don’t understand the bigger picture.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exactly. It's just not news. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Antman]

Exactly. It's just not news. Nothing to see here, move along.

Clearly some people think otherwise.

If you were without water and there were numerous staff gathered around a burst water main down the road not doing very much you might well be asking similar questions?

 

[Butts]

I believe smoking is still permitted on the non-underground platforms on the Merseyrail network. Always slightly surprising to see if you aren't used to it.

It was also not banned on open platforms in Scotrail Controlled Stations until Abellio took over the franchise from First a few years ago- well after the ban came in. Effectively in remote rural areas such as the famous Crianlarich "changeovers" it still goes on unabated by both staff and passengers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was also not banned on open platforms in Scotrail Controlled Stations until Abellio took over the franchise from First a few years ago- well after the ban came in. Effectively in remote rural areas such as the famous Crianlarich "changeovers" it still goes on unabated by both staff and passengers.

I half recall there is also a station somewhere (is it Fishguard Harbour?) where it is not banned because the station is wholly owned and controlled by the ferry company, not the railway, and smoking on a railway platform they don't really care about (as more profitable car and lorry traffic is their priority) is well down their list of priorities to be bothered dealing with.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Clearly some people think otherwise.

If you were without water and there were numerous staff gathered around a burst water main down the road not doing very much you might well be asking similar questions?

Why? I'd assume they were waiting for a part to arrive and having their lunch/a fag in the meantime.

 

[Mag_seven]

People really shouldn’t comment if they don’t understand the bigger picture.

Unfortunately outlets such as Twitter/Facebook etc allow the uninformed to comment and talk rubbish. Look at Brexit!

 

[DarloRich]

Clearly some people think otherwise.

If you were without water and there were numerous staff gathered around a burst water main down the road not doing very much you might well be asking similar questions?

I would assume they were having a break. Just as you do at work. They are entitled to the same legally defined break periods as anyone else. That or they were waiting for a part or for the bloke with the shovel to finish digging out the burst pipe so they could asses how to fix it or that they have discovered the problem is much worse than they thought and cant be safely fixed with X men or any number of perfectly plausible reasons for inactivity. Furthermore, I am sure there are parts of your working day where you are inactive.

My last view, unlike many here and in society generally, would be that they were laughing their rocks off extracting the urine.

 

[Tomnick]

Social media cannot be uninvented. Love it or loathe it it's here to stay and it's not really surprising that irate commuters facing a second consecutive day of disruption at Waterloo, albeit for a different reason, are going to be asking questions about the lack of activity. Was there no welfare unit on site where staff could have taken breaks?

If there was a welfare unit, it’d probably be parked at the access point that might be some distance away, and maybe (especially on a busy, complex railway like this) unsafe to get to without taking line blockages. Would you rather them take breaks on site, almost certainly whilst waiting for access to the line and/or spares, or go away to somewhere out of sight that’s going to delay the job or other services?

 

[Antman]

Why? I'd assume they were waiting for a part to arrive and having their lunch/a fag in the meantime.

That may well have been the case, the point I was making is that it isn't unreasonable for people to be asking questions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That may well have been the case, the point I was making is that it isn't unreasonable for people to be asking questions.

Is it? Or maybe they could just be allowed to get on with fixing the railway (once they've had their cheese butties and smoked their fags) and leave their management to decide if they are doing their job properly or not? They aren't customer-facing staff so they have no particular need to be "putting up appearances".

This seems to be getting a bit close to people sneering at staff who come back to a delayed train or bus having "had a tea break" when they were in fact having their mandatory PNB.

 

[Antman]

Is it? Or maybe they could just be allowed to get on with fixing the railway (once they've had their cheese butties and smoked their fags) and leave their management to decide if they are doing their job properly or not? They aren't customer-facing staff so they have no particular need to be "putting up appearances".

This seems to be getting a bit close to people sneering at staff who come back to a delayed train or bus having "had a tea break" when they were in fact having their mandatory PNB.

Pre social media it would have been dismissed as people exaggerating, now there's photographic evidence. If NR management made a statement explaining what was happening then everyone will know.

 

[Darandio]

That may well have been the case, the point I was making is that it isn't unreasonable for people to be asking questions.

People should mind their own business. The stuff on Twitter, this thread and some of the replies in it are utterly ridiculous.

Pre social media it would have been dismissed as people exaggerating, now there's photographic evidence. If NR management made a statement explaining what was happening then everyone will know.

Management should not need to make a statement to satisfy a bunch of sneering tossers.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Pre social media it would have been dismissed as people exaggerating, now there's photographic evidence. If NR management made a statement explaining what was happening then everyone will know.

You really are entering the realms of fantasy now. Network Rail should put out a public statement because somebody took a photo of a group of people doing very little? Really?

 

[Darandio]

or go away to somewhere out of sight that’s going to delay the job or other services?

Maybe those taking such a keen interest would like an internal sent to all employees requesting that they look more 'lively' during breaks?

 

[Darandio]

Surely it is dangerous to smoke around the railway with all the diesel residue and litter that is on the railway (SWR still use diesel trains on some routes from Waterloo)

The only elements in the vicinity of the work site likely to self combust are those who decided to post this on Twitter.

 

[DarloRich]

Pre social media it would have been dismissed as people exaggerating, now there's photographic evidence. If NR management made a statement explaining what was happening then everyone will know.

Easy: These people were having their dinner break, just like you do at work .The difference is they weren't able to leave their "desks" to do so and so sat in a mixture of diesel, pooh, asbestos and other nasties to eat their lunch which they had to send the young apprentice to buy from McDonalds because they couldn't leave site to cook last nights left overs in the microwave.

Shall we get a grip here?

 

[Dieseldriver]

Absolutely disgusting! Next you'll be telling me that one of these dirty little oiks had the audacity to go to the toilet whilst the important travelling public (who pay these ungrateful, lazy, money grabbing, militant railway 'workers' their wage) were inconvenienced.